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Realistically....How many teams should be in the NHL?

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Old
01-06-2013, 10:22 PM
  #501
SaintPatrick33
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
If Toronto gets a second team before Hamilton gets a team I'll throw a chair.
When I say GTA I'm thinking of Hamilton as one possible location along with Markham.

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01-06-2013, 10:48 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
When I say GTA I'm thinking of Hamilton as one possible location along with Markham.
I figured as such, I'm just sayin'...

Ideally the new Markham arena would be the home of our farm team (just my $0.02).

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01-06-2013, 10:52 PM
  #503
SaintPatrick33
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I figured as such, I'm just sayin'...

Ideally the new Markham arena would be the home of our farm team (just my $0.02).
Just from perusing a map I'm inclined to think Hamilton is the better option than Markham but I usually leave the pro and con arguments to people better versed in the ins and outs of Ontario than I am.

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01-06-2013, 11:02 PM
  #504
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I think if/when the NHL next does an expansion, they will be much more likely to add 1 of each an American and Canadian team as opposed to 2 Canadian teams. Seattle and Quebec seem most likely. Obviously if any other Sun Belt teams fail, which is likely to happen, then the next spot would be Hamilton or Markham.

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01-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #505
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Toronto and Montreal should both have a second team they are the 2 biggest hockey markets it only makes sense. I think Seattle and Portland should have teams also.

Contract or move all of the warm weather teams besides the Kings and Ducks:

Tampa
Florida
Carolina
Phoenix
Dallas
Carolina
Nashville
and Columbus because they are a no hope franchise

So net result is 4 less teams

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01-07-2013, 01:06 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
YES YES YES

Pretty much ever since Baldy tried to move them to Hamilton 90 percent of Canadians have believed the garbage they read and hear about us from the media there who wanted us removed from the league and no matter what we do it's never good enough we sell out 97 percent of the building then we gave out 15550 free tickets or they were cheap. Most of the haters have never watched the team and certainly have never been here.
I'm in the 10%. Looks like a hell of a place to see a game.

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01-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #507
Butch 19
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Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Toronto and Montreal should both have a second team they are the 2 biggest hockey markets it only makes sense. I think Seattle and Portland should have teams also.

Contract or move all of the warm weather teams besides the Kings and Ducks:

Tampa
Florida
Carolina
Phoenix
Dallas
Carolina
Nashville
and Columbus because they are a no hope franchise

So net result is 4 less teams
It snows in at least 5 of those cities.

It never ceases to amaze me that some think the outdoor temperature(!!) should be a factor on whether a city should be considered to have a hockey team.

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01-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Toronto and Montreal should both have a second team they are the 2 biggest hockey markets it only makes sense. I think Seattle and Portland should have teams also.

Contract or move all of the warm weather teams besides the Kings and Ducks:

Tampa
Florida
Carolina
Phoenix
Dallas
Carolina
Nashville
and Columbus because they are a no hope franchise

So net result is 4 less teams
I think MLB, which is meant to be played outdoors in nice conditions, needs to move out of any area where there's the threat of snow or cold temperatures. Say goodbye to:
- New York (both Yankees and Mets)
- Boston
- Philadelphia
- Pittsburgh
- Cleveland
- Detroit
- Chicago (White Sox and Cubs)
- Toronto
- Baltimore
- Washington
- Minnesota
- Milwaukee

Without question, by 2003, all of Boston (no World Series since 1918), Philadelphia (one since 1883), Cleveland (none since 1948), Chicago White Sox (none since 1917), Chicago Cubs (none since 1908), and Milwaukee (none since their 1969 birth) would qualify as "no-hope franchises". Obviously MLB would be better off without this crap dragging down the game.

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01-07-2013, 12:03 PM
  #509
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There is all kinds of problem with the NHL fans not necessary the NHL. The fans and MEDIA of the NHL keeps the NHL from drawing in more new fans. You don't hear much about the NFL, MLB or NBA teams about their fans arguing over which team should be where or fold flat out. The main problem with the fans and media is that the NHL have teams spread out all over two different countries, the other three leagues have this. With teams spread out like this it is hard to know what goes on with these franchises and believe me no team has ever turned their financial report to anyone including Forbes. Unless like in Nashville the Predators had to turn their full financial report into the Sports Authority by mid-July each year. Which I have attended each meeting since the new ownership took over. This also creates a negative and not always correct opinion on many franchises, people only believe what they read. Such as the Preds papered the house to get revenue sharing which is complete garbage (I will explain later on). I know that they are alot of negative talk about Phoenix but do I know why or does any fan outside of Phoenix know. The team has been owned by the league for the past few seasons and their future in Phoenix has been up in the air for years. So has this created loss of season ticket holder even bigger how much corporate support have they lost because of this. Once this team is sold and the owner(s) tell the area that the Coyotes are not going anywhere will season ticket sales go up, will corporate sponsorship go up? I think both will climb with a great pace especially if the team on ice performance continues to improve and the Suns, Dbacks and Cardinals continue to struggle.

Reading these post I have seen several post about Nashville being a hockey market. Nashville is a bigger hockey market than most Canadians realize. Hockey has been played in Nashville for 50 years with minor league teams. In the 60's kids played hockey on frozen parking lots and some frozen ponds. Growing up in East Tennessee our pond froze every year and we skated and played hockey every winter, this was in the early 80's. Here is a season by season of the Preds and capacity percentage for each season.
1998- 16,194 95%
1999- 16,599 97%
2000- 15,767 92%
2001- 14,788 86%
2002- 13,228 78%
2003- 13,157 77%
2005- 14,428 85%
2006- 15,259 89%
2007- 14,910 87%
2008- 15,010 88%
2009- 14,979 87%
2010- 16,142 95%
2011- 16,691 98%
For an average season attendance of 15,166 or 89% to capacity.

Now looking at this they had four consective season of attendance at 14,7/13,2/13,1 and 14,4. By far their worst attendance seasons. Now if you are not from Nashville or never been here you have no idea what was going on with the Franchise, the owner, the fans or corporate support. Up through 2001 season the Preds shared the arena with a Arena Football League team the Nashville Kats. The Kats were a very successful team that won many games and went deep in the playoffs every year. Once their lease expired, the Kats wanted more from the city to stay in Nashville. This required the owner of the Preds to give up some incentitives they had from the city. When Leipold refused to give in the Kats left town to Atlanta Philips Arena. This more less pissed the fans and even more importantly corporate support. The common walkup fans left and sponsorship pulled their dollars and tickets.

Once the new owners took over it took some time to get back and corporate dollars even longer. With their new arena lease which gave them power to run and operate the arena which includes booking nonhockey events. They have brought Bridgestone Arena from 92 busiest in the US and 163 in the World to the top 5 in the US and top 15 in the World. As we have seen on every news station in Nashville since the lockout ended downtown merchants especially on Broadway are so excited about the hockey season starting. Merchants have had to cut back hours and lay off workers because of the lockout which tells me the Preds draw a huge crowds for home games. Corporate support has boomed and continues to do so. Leipold last season here he had 4 sponsors outside of a couple of small sponsors that would do game by game. Now, the owners have brought in major sponsors such Lexus, Nissan, Fifth Third Bank, Bridgestone along with several smaller sponsors for the entire season. Most suites are bought out by corporate sponsors for the season.

Now the owners, which I happen to know some of them very well. Preds Chairman Tom Cigarran helped me get my medical business going in 2009. First lets cover the "papering the house" comment. In January of 2008, the Tennessean John Glennon set down with then Chairman David Freeman to ask him how things were going with the franchise. The team paid attendance was around 13,8, he ask Freeman if he thought the team would get to the 14,000 PAID attendance to recieve full revenue sharing. His response was he thought they would easily do it since ticket sales rises during the second half of the season but he said if they did not the owners would buy enough tickets to push them over the 14,000 mark. First that is against the NHL rules for any team to buy tickets up to get them to revenue sharing numbers. So it had nothing to do with comps which they had around 900 that year but paid attendance was over 14,000. Next, they manage this franchise better than most teams are managed. They let long time CEO Ed Lang go and replaced him with two guys. Jeff Cogen and Sean Henry both had great success in other southern markets and brought in the plan to not build the hockey team up but also the arena its self. Which is mainly Henry job. The arena is going through a 30 million dollar renavation which the owners are putting in 20 million of the their own money, the city is putting in close to 10 million. Mainly for exterior renavation. Which brings up another point, the city subsidize the Preds to 7 million a year. The subsidize goes to the owner for opearting the arena. The Preds pay the bills from the arena with this money. In 2007, the city lost 33 million dollars from the arena. Since 2008, the city and Preds have made over 170 million dollars from the arena. With this subsidize the city required that the owners turn nin their yearly financial report i July to make sure the team was not losing money and would bail on them. I attended everyone of these meeting and what I saw was their finances around the break even point must years up to one million dollars in the black. This past July, the Preds and the City extended that lease that runs through 2030. There is a no movement clause and if the league were to fold the team the NHL would not only have to buy out the Preds but also a buy out to the city of Nashville. Also in the new lease the team no longer have to turn in their financial report. One of the members said that it was no longer needed the owners have shown over the years that they have been able to show a profit and that profit continues grow each year. Hint that is how they can afford Weber and Rinne.

Is Nashville a perfect hockey market? NO! It is a small market that will have attendance to continue to go up and down through the years. Has the Preds contributed to the community? Yes! As we speak they are in the process of building at least three more rinks for all the adult and youth leagues here in town. Right now there is no where enough rinks for all the leagues plus high school teams that play. Will this young franchise in a young NHL market continue to grow? Absolutley! Its funny, we get alot of fans from other cities. Fans come here for two reasons, one is hockey and the other is to party. I have never once had one fan from Canada to ever speak bad about our team, fans, arena or city. Why? Because they have seen it first hand. The Vancouver fans are probably the best. They became believers during the second round playoffs and saw first hand.

GO PREDS

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01-07-2013, 12:56 PM
  #510
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I've always believed in the Preds.. Everyone I know who has gone there for a game has come away very impressed by the passion in the building and in the area

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01-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #511
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Twenty-eight, four conferences of seven.

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01-07-2013, 04:20 PM
  #512
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Twenty-eight, four conferences of seven.
Besides your team, who else gets cut?

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01-07-2013, 04:24 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by TTOMO View Post
I'm in the 10%. Looks like a hell of a place to see a game.
I said 90% believe the garbage they read in the media. Example: When Don Sanderson died, I was listening to Bob McCown and he said the NHL should ban fighting but it will not because the league is trying to sell the sport to fans in places like Nashville. The very next day Don Cherry on the same station was defending fighting and that the NHL would ban fighting to appease the fans in Carolina that don't love real hockey. 2 sides of a discussion and both people blamed the fans in the south as root of the problem. Take any issue with the league (CBA, Shootout, ect) and some Canadian media type will blame the southern teams for the problem.


Last edited by Gnashville: 01-07-2013 at 07:16 PM.
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01-07-2013, 04:35 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Without question, by 2003, all of Boston (no World Series since 1918), Philadelphia (one since 1883), Cleveland (none since 1948), Chicago White Sox (none since 1917), Chicago Cubs (none since 1908), and Milwaukee (none since their 1969 birth) would qualify as "no-hope franchises". Obviously MLB would be better off without this crap dragging down the game.
Philadelphia A's had 5 world championships under Connie Mack. I know what your meaning here but most those cities have had two teams during their history

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01-07-2013, 05:10 PM
  #515
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Relegation is neither a soccer thing nor a european thing. It is used all over the planet, for all manner of sport.

If you don't like it, don't support it. We all have that right. But those of us who believe sport is supposed to be about all-out competition and not the babying and coddling of losers will continue to push for it.
Except what you want is a money-spending competition.

And I LOVE North American fans of Euro football that spout off about how great it's structure is. Invariably they are "fans" of one of the few teams that can afford to be elite every year. What a coincidence!

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01-07-2013, 05:22 PM
  #516
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Except what you want is a money-spending competition.
You're not really in a place to tell me what I want, mate. What I want is for fans to have the opportunity to have as good a team as they're willing and able to support.

That, and a un-dilution of talent, both on-ice and front-office.

PS My Euro team is GNK Dinamo Zagreb - so you're wrong on that point, too.

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01-07-2013, 06:21 PM
  #517
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My Euro team is GNK Dinamo Zagreb - so you're wrong on that point, too.
Marcinko Tomislav. Looks like the dos Equis guy. Almost a Dead Ringer. Tips an astonishing 100%.

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01-07-2013, 06:31 PM
  #518
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Expanded Revenue Sharing Great news for struggling teams. Sorry guys harsh reality says players and owners wants struggling teams the time necessary to become successful.

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01-07-2013, 06:32 PM
  #519
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Get rid of Phoenix
Add. Quebec, Seattle, and Hamilton/Portland

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01-08-2013, 12:36 AM
  #520
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Contraction is a non-starter, relocation is a possibility but contraction is right out. It would easily cost in excess of a year's total revenue and simultaneously reduce that revenue, while opening up the league to lawsuits. It would kill the league as we know it.

If there is a relocation, I'd put Phoenix at the head of the list.

Expansion is more likely, partly because there are several clear markets that could support an NHL team, and also because a 32-team league would allow for restructuring/realignment that could possibly help reduce travel costs.

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01-08-2013, 07:46 PM
  #521
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If there's a large number of "average" teams and a balance of above-average revenue and below-average revenue teams, the league can sustain any number of teams it wants.

The only time there is a problem is when the number of super-rich have distanced themselves so far from the average team that the majority cannot keep up. Then you need a ridiculous amount of revenue sharing like MLB, or have a situation where the bottom 2/3 of the league is nothing more than fodder for the rich (English Premier League).

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01-08-2013, 08:35 PM
  #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Toronto and Montreal should both have a second team they are the 2 biggest hockey markets it only makes sense. I think Seattle and Portland should have teams also.

Contract or move all of the warm weather teams besides the Kings and Ducks:

Tampa MAYBE but they have won a cup
Florida I AGREE
Carolina YES however they have a cup so that would be a tough sell
Phoenix YES
Dallas YOU ARE STUPID IF U THINK STARS SHOULD MOVE...hockey is HUGE in the state of teas...HOUSTON should get a team
Carolina u already said them
Nashville HELL NO
and Columbus because they are a no hope franchise they were selling out before if they get a good product i think fans will be back
So net result is 4 less teams only PHO/FLA/TB should go...maybe to Carolina however getting rid of Dallas & Nashville would be very foolish


my message isn't too short...btw MTL could never support 2 teams only Toronto could at this point

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01-08-2013, 10:08 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Diehardpredsfan View Post
There is all kinds of problem with the NHL fans not necessary the NHL. The fans and MEDIA of the NHL keeps the NHL from drawing in more new fans. You don't hear much about the NFL, MLB or NBA teams about their fans arguing over which team should be where or fold flat out.


I know you're a preds fan, and I'm a Columbus fan, but....do you wanna go steady?

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01-09-2013, 09:26 AM
  #524
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It snows in at least 5 of those cities.

It never ceases to amaze me that some think the outdoor temperature(!!) should be a factor on whether a city should be considered to have a hockey team.
It never ceases to amaze me that people think the climate isn't a factor. Lots of kids playing on the pond in Phoenix. The sunbelt teams will never be as successful as the cold climate teams.

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01-09-2013, 09:35 AM
  #525
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I know you're a preds fan, and I'm a Columbus fan, but....do you wanna go steady?
Any more slang from the 50s you want to bust out too?

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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
It never ceases to amaze me that people think the climate isn't a factor. Lots of kids playing on the pond in Phoenix. The sunbelt teams will never be as successful as the cold climate teams.
Two natives of Phoenix were just drafted in the first round of the last two drafts (Henrik Samuelsson and Sean Couturier). Not a lot of snow in southern California, but they've produced a ton of prospects in the last few years.

As for me, living one state east of Indiana, I don't know why they have such a basketball culture. I've been through Indiana plenty of times, and I don't know that I've ever seen a natural glossy hardwood floor growing outside.

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