HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Luongo Talk: The Final Countdown...?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2013, 08:52 PM
  #676
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I like Frattin more too. Kadri seems more an more like a bust to me. He's either a top six player or useless IMO. Frattin has skill and is still fairly gritty that I could see him as a pretty good NHL third line player.
Neither are NHL players on a contender.

They aren't even top prospects.

If we can't even get a top prospect or a 1st round pick along with a UFA rental for a top level goalie, why make the move during this season?

Like please folks tell me why you'd make that deal in a short season.

We're a Schneider groin strain away from the draft lottery....

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 08:54 PM
  #677
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Not relevant to the fake deal, but why are people talking like Frattin is a downgrade from Kadri?
They're different. Frattin is older and has more limited upside, whereas Kadri is a boom/bust prospect that likely doesn't help us much this year or next but could end up being a Mike Ribeiro type in 3 or 4 years.

I like Frattin because I think he's a good fit with Lapierre and Kassian on the 4th line. Would give us size, physicality and some offensive punch for once. Frattin the shooter, Kassian the passer - could make for a good fit.

I've never liked Kadri when I've seen him but he still could turn into an impact player at the NHL level. On the fence whether or not I would want him as a piece coming back...

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 08:57 PM
  #678
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Neither are NHL players on a contender.

We're a Schneider groin strain away from the draft lottery....
Frattin would make our 4th line IMO. Upgrade on Dale Weiss.

We're not a Schneider injury away from the draft lottery. Could potentially miss the playoffs though with a slew of injuries to our top players. Like every other team in the league...

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #679
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
They're different. Frattin is older and has more limited upside, whereas Kadri is a boom/bust prospect that likely doesn't help us much this year or next but could end up being a Mike Ribeiro type in 3 or 4 years.

I like Frattin because I think he's a good fit with Lapierre and Kassian on the 4th line. Would give us size, physicality and some offensive punch for once. Frattin the shooter, Kassian the passer - could make for a good fit.

I've never liked Kadri when I've seen him but he still could turn into an impact player at the NHL level. On the fence whether or not I would want him as a piece coming back...
If Kadri doesn't make the NHL team next year he'll be subject to waivers to get him down.

Makes no sense to acquire a 22 year old player, you will lose to waivers....especially when you don't think he'll be able to make a impact in the NHL for 3 or 4 more years.

It's crazy to me to even suggest him as a main piece. He's a throw in.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #680
Edonator
Registered User
 
Edonator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vancouver
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 3,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I love how quickly people jump on y2k on this board. It's hilarious.
I wish he'd get banned for being so ugh instead of us getting violations time after time shooting him down with little slightly offensive comments.

Edonator is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #681
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Frattin would make our 4th line IMO. Upgrade on Dale Weiss.

We're not a Schneider injury away from the draft lottery. Could potentially miss the playoffs though with a slew of injuries to our top players. Like every other team in the league...
Classic case of over valuing other teams players.

Weise is younger.

Has better numbers in the AHL, has played a full season in the NHL as a pro.

Ridiculous to think that's an upgrade, lateral at best.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:03 PM
  #682
PG Canuck
Global Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,501
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Neither are NHL players on a contender.

They aren't even top prospects.

If we can't even get a top prospect or a 1st round pick along with a UFA rental for a top level goalie, why make the move during this season?

Like please folks tell me why you'd make that deal in a short season.

We're a Schneider groin strain away from the draft lottery....
Not saying we should make a deal, just saying I like Frattin better. Just see more potential in him over Kadri. We also need scoring depth, we're a Daniel Sedin concussion away from being able to score a few goals a game if that, maximum.

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:03 PM
  #683
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edonator View Post
I wish he'd get banned for being so ugh instead of us getting violations time after time shooting him down with little slightly offensive comments.
If you don't have anything nice to say....

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:04 PM
  #684
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
If Kadri doesn't make the NHL team next year he'll be subject to waivers to get him down.

Makes no sense to acquire a 22 year old player, you will lose to waivers....especially when you don't think he'll be able to make a impact in the NHL for 3 or 4 more years.

It's crazy to me to even suggest him as a main piece. He's a throw in.
Yeah, I don't like any deal built around Kadri.

To Tor- Luongo, Raymond
To Van- Kulemin, Bozak, 1st

I make that deal. Though Burke won't be moving his 1st IMO.

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:05 PM
  #685
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Frattin would make our 4th line IMO. Upgrade on Dale Weiss.

We're not a Schneider injury away from the draft lottery. Could potentially miss the playoffs though with a slew of injuries to our top players. Like every other team in the league...
So you think we can get to the playoffs if we trade Luongo and Schneider gets injured?

Sorry this team can't score enough to overcome AHL goaltending.

You think AV is a defensive coach, imagine what he'd do with Climie as our goalie.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:08 PM
  #686
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,911
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
So you think we can get to the playoffs if we trade Luongo and Schneider gets injured?

Sorry this team can't score enough to overcome AHL goaltending.

You think AV is a defensive coach, imagine what he'd do with Climie as our goalie.
Do you think LA makes the playoffs if Quick gets injured? What about NYR if they have to rely on Biron to carry them?

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:10 PM
  #687
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,589
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I love how quickly people jump on y2k on this board. It's hilarious.
Probably because he takes overvaluing to a whole new level. That and the random Sedin hatred.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:11 PM
  #688
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Classic case of over valuing other teams players.

Weise is younger.

Has better numbers in the AHL, has played a full season in the NHL as a pro.

Ridiculous to think that's an upgrade, lateral at best.
That's an odd way to evaluate players. Quote their AHl numbers and give Weise credit for playing more games in the NHL with significantly less production...

Weise has 4G, 4A in 78 NHL games - Frattin had twice as many goals and assists in 20 less games.

Frattin also scored 24 goals in 36 AHL games in '11-12. Miles better than anything Weise has ever done as a pro.

I take Frattin over Weise without thinking twice. And I don't mind Weise as a 12-13 th forward project.

'Lateral at best' is a much tougher stance to defend...

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:12 PM
  #689
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 15,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
So you think we can get to the playoffs if we trade Luongo and Schneider gets injured?

Sorry this team can't score enough to overcome AHL goaltending.
The Canucks are the best offensive team in the NHL...

Are you assuming Schneider gets injured the 1st game of the year?

Drop the Sopel is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:12 PM
  #690
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,911
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That's an odd way to evaluate players. Quote their AHl numbers and give Weise credit for playing more games in the NHL with significantly less production...

Weise has 4G, 4A in 78 NHL games - Frattin had twice as many goals and assists in 20 less games.

Frattin also scored 24 goals in 36 AHL games in '11-12. Miles better than anything Weise has ever done as a pro.

I take Frattin over Weise without thinking twice. And I don't mind Weise as a 12-13 th forward project.

'Lateral at best' is a much tougher stance to defend...
But Weise is the Gretzky of the Netherlands.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:13 PM
  #691
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,589
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
So you think we can get to the playoffs if we trade Luongo and Schneider gets injured?

Sorry this team can't score enough to overcome AHL goaltending.

You think AV is a defensive coach, imagine what he'd do with Climie as our goalie.
You do realize of any starter goaltenders last year, only Reimer was out with any longevity, yes? Even Lu's injury was a little over a week or so. We would be perfectly fine rolling Luongo/Schneider and Lack.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:13 PM
  #692
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Do you think LA makes the playoffs if Quick gets injured? What about NYR if they have to rely on Biron to carry them?
Yeah I do think those team do.

Biron is an NHL goalie with starting experience.

Jonathan Bernier is better than anything we have.

Eddie lack isn't healthy.

I just don't see the reasoning behind moving a top tier goalie in a compressed season for non impact pieces.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:15 PM
  #693
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,448
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Do you think LA makes the playoffs if Quick gets injured? What about NYR if they have to rely on Biron to carry them?
I was thinking this as well. I mean perhaps Bernier could get them in, but not provide the level that Quick provided last year.

No team can sustain that. Bottom line the Canucks need size, and depth up front to pound the opponent. in 2009, 2010 the Hawks were the bigger more physical team. Before the Manny injury the Canucks depth was key and they beat the crap out of the Hawks, Preds and SHarks before the Bruins size and injuries were too much to overcome. Last year the Kings were far to big and focused.

I would trade Luongo for Size and depth in a heartbeat.

If you are too scared to trade the guy, then gut the team, trade the other players and start over with Lu.

But I think you know otherwise. Y2K, what do you trade Luongo for? What package is acceptable to help the team?

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:17 PM
  #694
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,589
vCash: 13357
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Yeah I do think those team do.

Biron is an NHL goalie with starting experience.

Jonathan Bernier is better than anything we have.

Eddie lack isn't healthy.

I just don't see the reasoning behind moving a top tier goalie in a compressed season for non impact pieces.
LA barely squeaked into the playoffs as it was and Biron is nowhere close to Lundqvist's level. Not two years ago the only reason the Rangers were even relevant is because Lundqvist damn near dragged them into 7-10th kicking and screaming. Philly managed to run the full gauntlet with Michael bloody Leighton. What of Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Montreal, Boston? There are numerous teams who have a sharp decline between starter and backup goalies, yet they manage.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
  #695
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That's an odd way to evaluate players. Quote their AHl numbers and give Weise credit for playing more games in the NHL with significantly less production...

Weise has 4G, 4A in 78 NHL games - Frattin had twice as many goals and assists in 20 less games.

Frattin also scored 24 goals in 36 AHL games in '11-12. Miles better than anything Weise has ever done as a pro.

I take Frattin over Weise without thinking twice. And I don't mind Weise as a 12-13 th forward project.

'Lateral at best' is a much tougher stance to defend...
I'd take the guy who scored 28 goals isn't hurt all the time, and has actually shown to be effective in a 4th line role.

Clearly Frattin received more opportunity at the NHL level than Weise.

Weise stuck on the presidents trophy team.

Frattin a call up from the AHL because he couldn't stick with a lottery team.

What Makes Frattin better? At this stage Weise is ahead of him in development and younger.

I mean you can look at his NHL production and say Weise isn't as good, but how often did he start in his own end? What about Frattin?

Who did Weise play with? Frattin?

It's truly a grass is greener belief for you here.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:27 PM
  #696
arsmaster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 16,221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Canucks are the best offensive team in the NHL...

Are you assuming Schneider gets injured the 1st game of the year?
No I'm not suggesting Schneider will get hurt in game 1, but in a compressed season where there will be multiple 3 games in 4 nights stretches it makes more sense to have to goalies you know you can count on.

To me it's more important than Bozak.

Forgive me for not trusting the Canucks scoring - all I can remember is that they couldn't score in the playoffs. what was it 8 goals in 5 games.

@bourne endeavour - this isn't last season, they are playing 48 games in a very tight schedule, and a lot of us are worried about throwing a guy who has never played more than 35 games in a season into the fire. Schneider gets hurt, you can't afford to let him rest it....I don't know who the back-up is for me, but its going to be a huge downgrade to the one we've carried the last two years.

arsmaster is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:33 PM
  #697
PG Canuck
Global Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,501
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
No I'm not suggesting Schneider will get hurt in game 1, but in a compressed season where there will be multiple 3 games in 4 nights stretches it makes more sense to have to goalies you know you can count on.

To me it's more important than Bozak.

Forgive me for not trusting the Canucks scoring - all I can remember is that they couldn't score in the playoffs. what was it 8 goals in 5 games.
I can see the upside of keeping Luongo, but I can also see the upside of trading Luongo for some scoring upfront for, for example, Weiss. I agree that there's no reason to make a deal that has Bozak and other scrap pieces because in this compressed schedule, it would be nice to have Schneider/Luongo swapping games so they aren't fatigued for the playoffs.

PG Canuck is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:34 PM
  #698
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,448
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
No I'm not suggesting Schneider will get hurt in game 1, but in a compressed season where there will be multiple 3 games in 4 nights stretches it makes more sense to have to goalies you know you can count on.

To me it's more important than Bozak.

Forgive me for not trusting the Canucks scoring - all I can remember is that they couldn't score in the playoffs. what was it 8 goals in 5 games.
Again the hockey gods decided the Canucks should go into the playoffs in a brain fuzz, without their best winger, breaking up through injury what was going to be a solid 2nd line in Booth, Kesler, Higgins... AV was an idiot Injuries scare me more than anything, which is why depth on all 4 lines is going to be key.

Luongo on the bench, incase of an injury changes nothing... depth from a trade for Luongo allows the team to overcome a goaltending challenge. Luongo simply must be traded.

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:37 PM
  #699
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,448
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
I can see the upside of keeping Luongo, but I can also see the upside of trading Luongo for some scoring upfront for, for example, Weiss. I agree that there's no reason to make a deal that has Bozak and other scrap pieces because in this compressed schedule, it would be nice to have Schneider/Luongo swapping games so they aren't fatigued for the playoffs.
But it isn't like the other teams are playing their goalies 30 games and 18 games... almost all the teams are going to be in the same position, so the risk is the same.

It's like the Canucks are the only team with a starter playing in 46 games... are they?

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:41 PM
  #700
PG Canuck
Global Moderator
 
PG Canuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,501
vCash: 1512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
But it isn't like the other teams are playing their goalies 30 games and 18 games... almost all the teams are going to be in the same position, so the risk is the same.

It's like the Canucks are the only team with a starter playing in 46 games... are they?
Risk is the same, but I'd rather not take a risk and have both goalies than have scraps, is all. I'm all for going after Weiss though. We need more scoring depth, badly.

PG Canuck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.