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Old
01-08-2013, 05:56 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Yeah. Our defense and goalie is completely out of whack with the rest of the team. By the time the forwards are at their best, we have no idea what our D will be like and Bryz is very likely going to be on the downward end of his career.
The main problem with all the "expectations" of bryzgalov is people have the 2010 finals mentality where all we needed was to replace leighton with a good goalie and we have a cup. We completely changed the team tho, so last year was a joke either way. we put together an entirely different team over the course of 3 months not to mention the fact that most were inexperienced young ins. It was unrealistic to think we should've won a cup last year. factor in the centerpiece of our team being lost to a career ending injury and i think things are a lot brighter going forward than all this impatient ******** and moaning would lead people to believe. also They are expecting bryzgalov to be good long term (thomas, roloson) which is why they signed him so long. He takes care of himself, doesn't drink etc. so i don't think they just randomly threw 9 yrs. at him cause they were desperate to get him.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-08-2013 at 06:10 PM. Reason: filter
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01-08-2013, 06:10 PM
  #177
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The main problem with all the "expectations" of bryzgalov is people have the 2010 finals mentality where all we needed was to replace leighton with a good goalie and we have a cup. We completely changed the team tho, so last year was a joke either way. we put together an entirely different team over the course of 3 months not to mention the fact that most were inexperienced young ins. It was unrealistic to think we should've won a cup last year. factor in the centerpiece of our team being lost to a career ending injury and i think things are a lot brighter going forward than all this impatient ******** and moaning would lead people to believe. also They are expecting bryzgalov to be good long term (thomas, roloson) which is why they signed him so long. He takes care of himself, doesn't drink etc. so i don't think they just randomly threw 9 yrs. at him cause they were desperate to get him.
Nobody expected this team to win a Cup, so I'm not sure where you're getting that.

If they expect Bryz to play for 9 years, management is out of their minds. Thomas, and Roloson are the exceptions to the rule, they don't define it. It's far more likely that Bryz doesn't play at a high level at advanced age.

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01-08-2013, 06:31 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
The main problem with all the "expectations" of bryzgalov is people have the 2010 finals mentality where all we needed was to replace leighton with a good goalie and we have a cup. We completely changed the team tho.
details, details ......

great post.

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01-08-2013, 06:32 PM
  #179
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details, details ......

great post.
Yeah, it's such a stretch to expect a guy paid like a franchise goalie to put up the appropriate numbers and play consistently when it's needed.

Nobody will blame Bryz for costing us a Cup if we don't win one with him...unless he continues his streaky inconsistent postseason performances.

Edit: I don't expect him to win us a Cup. I just expect him not to cost us one. That's the only "2010" mentality I have.


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01-08-2013, 06:33 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
It's far more likely that Bryz doesn't play at a high level at advanced age.
Or any age

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01-08-2013, 06:56 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
im sorry this is not a win it now team, they are not built to win it, im flyers fan being realistic and not being negative, the reality of this team is that they are going to be in rebuilding mode after this season, they have lost alot on defense plus offense, it's not looking like this team will go anywhere for a while like it or not.
Which is why the blame doesn't rest entirely at the feet of the coach.

18 months ago, everyone on this message board would have taken a playoff win and beating the Penguins in the process.

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01-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #182
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It's January and Flyers still haven't won a game all season!

FIRE LAVY!!!

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01-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Yeah, it's such a stretch to expect a guy paid like a franchise goalie to put up the appropriate numbers and play consistently when it's needed.

Nobody will blame Bryz for costing us a Cup if we don't win one with him...unless he continues his streaky inconsistent postseason performances.

Edit: I don't expect him to win us a Cup. I just expect him not to cost us one. That's the only "2010" mentality I have.
If it wasn't a team game, i'd agree 100 percent. I just can't be that ignorant to the amount of change we went through in that I'd judge our new goalie based off that year. Even the one coming up i'm gonna look at his effort more then his numbers cause i'm still not sure what kind of team we have here. were definitely green in a lot of positions. but don't get me wrong, he better kick it up a notch and stay there or we will move on.

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01-08-2013, 10:49 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
If it wasn't a team game, i'd agree 100 percent. I just can't be that ignorant to the amount of change we went through in that I'd judge our new goalie based off that year. Even the one coming up i'm gonna look at his effort more then his numbers cause i'm still not sure what kind of team we have here. were definitely green in a lot of positions. but don't get me wrong, he better kick it up a notch and stay there or we will move on.
OK say we give him the benefit of doubt for last season, how can you not judge him after going to the KHL and playing 3rd string an be cut. Lets be honest, he might be a great guy but he not a very good goalie, Definately not worth the contract he has, that can't be disputed

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01-08-2013, 10:53 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
12 GP 6-5-0 GAA : 2.13 Sv Pct .913

Think he finished on a 3 or 4 game winning streak
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=14

if he plays most of the season like he did in March last year, he'll be worth it

i choose to hope for the best & be positive.

i don't know how any flyer fan can be any different as a new season starts. clean slate for everyone

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01-08-2013, 11:06 PM
  #186
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Which is why the blame doesn't rest entirely at the feet of the coach.

18 months ago, everyone on this message board would have taken a playoff win and beating the Penguins in the process.
we got beat/outcoached by the devils and we couldnt beat the rangers in the regular season with lav's style, like everyone else is saying you are seriously living in the past, this is not 2010 anymore, the players we had are not here anymore, lost the number 1 defensive player in pronger, we lost jagr,

i cant understand how fans cannot wake up from 2010 denial and get the fact this is not the same team nor the division is alot stronger than 2010, you want me to say this team will win it all? if that's the case, are you telling me that there's nothing wrong with this team? if that's the case, what exactly has this team gotten stronger at? this team is full of holes.

lavy was a good coach in 2010 but his style is flawed it's not going to win us anything not with this roster, you may love him but it's not going win us a cup.

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01-08-2013, 11:17 PM
  #187
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could be a john gruden/tampa bay situation

great system implementer, talent developer
but the flyers need that john gruden to come in and take the team to the next step

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01-08-2013, 11:32 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
we got beat/outcoached by the devils and we couldnt beat the rangers in the regular season with lav's style, like everyone else is saying you are seriously living in the past, this is not 2010 anymore, the players we had are not here anymore, lost the number 1 defensive player in pronger, we lost jagr,

i cant understand how fans cannot wake up from 2010 denial and get the fact this is not the same team nor the division is alot stronger than 2010, you want me to say this team will win it all? if that's the case, are you telling me that there's nothing wrong with this team? if that's the case, what exactly has this team gotten stronger at? this team is full of holes.

lavy was a good coach in 2010 but his style is flawed it's not going to win us anything not with this roster, you may love him but it's not going win us a cup.

You should go look at the other teams that lost Pronger and tell me how they've all been doing. The Oilers stink, the Ducks stink, the Blues maybe coming back around 8 years later (I'm skeptical). Hartford doesn't have an NHL team anymore. And it's a huge blow to us that has not been rectified. We're basically back to where we were in 2008.

And it doesn't matter what I think about him or his system. He's won a Cup with it, and was dangerously close a second time, so you can't say that it can't since it's already happened. Winning the Cup itself is always a perfect storm. He didn't forget how to coach in 2 years. And frankly a bastardized season won't be fair to make a full evaluation either. Newsflash: it's hard to be a team that's supposed to win a Cup every single year.

By the way, let's say Lavy does get fired. Do people here really think Craig Berube is going to install a new system overnight in a shortened season? The Flyers are trending that someone within the organization replaces someone who came from outside of it, and they have always been against a pure defensive system, trap or otherwise. If there at a point where firing the coach has become necessary, odds are against us making the playoffs anyways. It's easy to fire the coach on the internet since you can ignore the contingency plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowbro View Post
could be a john gruden/tampa bay situation

great system implementer, talent developer
but the flyers need that john gruden to come in and take the team to the next step
Lavy is the Gruden. John Stevens as the head coach demonstrated that he is literally clueless in handling the team, as demonstrated by all the 10-game losing streaks we endured, so they brought in someone who kept people in line before things went sideways. By the way, the guy Gruden replaced won a Super Bowl, too. So, we can drop that "closer" theory.


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01-09-2013, 12:02 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
we got beat/outcoached by the devils and we couldnt beat the rangers in the regular season with lav's style, like everyone else is saying you are seriously living in the past, this is not 2010 anymore, the players we had are not here anymore, lost the number 1 defensive player in pronger, we lost jagr,

i cant understand how fans cannot wake up from 2010 denial and get the fact this is not the same team nor the division is alot stronger than 2010, you want me to say this team will win it all? if that's the case, are you telling me that there's nothing wrong with this team? if that's the case, what exactly has this team gotten stronger at? this team is full of holes.

lavy was a good coach in 2010 but his style is flawed it's not going to win us anything not with this roster, you may love him but it's not going win us a cup.
Are you Gary Busey?

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01-09-2013, 01:20 AM
  #190
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were you even watching the goaltending in the kings/devils series, quick wasnt that great, the devils almost came back in that series, he had some good saves but he wasnt great, he only had 16 shots against him, when they won it, it was the defense and offense that was the difference maker, plus they were built to win it.
LOL WUT


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01-09-2013, 07:57 AM
  #191
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LOL WUT

Yea he when he said that he must be bsing everyone. Quick was tremendous.

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01-09-2013, 08:07 AM
  #192
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Shots against is a pretty good indicator of quality of defensive play.

How many teams do you find that are good defensively that give up a ton of shots?
I don't think shots against is a good indicator of quality of play. If you're playing defense and you're keeping everyone relegated to the perimeter and blue line and they're firing shots from there, that can be a little misleading.

The true indicator of defensive play is how many scoring opportunities you're limiting per game. I've seen games where teams have fired 30+ shots on net, but only had four or five real good scoring chances. That is a far more impressive defensive stat.

The biggest problem I see with the Flyers is that they give up an awful lot of good scoring chances. There's usually 10 to 15 a game they give up. That's far too many for a team that's a Stanley Cup contender to be giving up.

With guys like Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann in the lineup, I really think Holmgren is trying to shift the team's philosophy on the blue line in that he wants Laviolette to play a bit of a tighter system. I don't think he wants neutral zone trap tight, but they need to be better on the defensive zone than they've been.

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01-09-2013, 08:18 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
im sorry this is not a win it now team, they are not built to win it, im flyers fan being realistic and not being negative, the reality of this team is that they are going to be in rebuilding mode after this season, they have lost alot on defense plus offense, it's not looking like this team will go anywhere for a while like it or not.
While I agree that they aren't a win it now team, they aren't going into rebuilding mode. Yes, the defense needs work. Fact is, if Timonen retires, there's still four solid defensemen in the lineup in Coburn, Grossmann, Meszaros and Schenn. As for the "offense" that they lost a lot of, Giroux is only 24. Voracek is 23. Simmonds is 23. Brayden Schenn is 21. Sean Couturier is 20. Hartnell is going to be 31. They are young at five forward spots. Plus, Cousins will be groomed to play the wing when he gets to Adirondack. Akeson has turned his defensive game around and is looking like a legit prospect to make the club and he's only 22. Marcel Noebels was recalled to the Phantoms after putting up very good numbers in a loaded ECHL this year and he's only 20. That doesn't even include Scott Laughton who is also averaging over a point per game in the OHL and he's only 18. Offense is the last thing this club needs to worry about.

As for Bryzgalov, if he plays anything like he did in the 2nd half of last year (people forget that in the second half of the season, Bryz was 18-8-1 with a 2.01GAA and .946SvPct), then there's nothing to worry about. Many people also forget he was still playing on a bad foot in the Penguins series and wasn't really healthy until the Jersey series. Maybe it's just me, but I have no doubts about Bryzgalov at all. The Flyers are going to be fine.

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01-09-2013, 11:25 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
LOL WUT

if quick was on his head with no d and sweep the devils, he would deserve it, the real player that deserves it was Drew Doughty, that was just crazy fan votes.

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01-09-2013, 12:25 PM
  #195
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if quick was on his head with no d and sweep the devils, he would deserve it, the real player that deserves it was Drew Doughty, that was just crazy fan votes.
ive come to the conclusion that you are either trolling everyone or you clearly were not paying attention to the playoffs last year. That said, I am done with this part of the discussion. Not going to be baited into anymore ******* foolishness with you.

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01-09-2013, 12:33 PM
  #196
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If we struggle this year it will be b/c Bryz is inconsistent, our D gets exposed for the mediocre group that it currently is on paper at least, we can't generate on the PP since we have limited guns at the point, Lavy can't adapt or refuses to when things aren't going right...

IF those things become a moot point we should be fine...

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01-09-2013, 01:06 PM
  #197
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I don't think shots against is a good indicator of quality of play. If you're playing defense and you're keeping everyone relegated to the perimeter and blue line and they're firing shots from there, that can be a little misleading.

The true indicator of defensive play is how many scoring opportunities you're limiting per game. I've seen games where teams have fired 30+ shots on net, but only had four or five real good scoring chances. That is a far more impressive defensive stat.

The biggest problem I see with the Flyers is that they give up an awful lot of good scoring chances. There's usually 10 to 15 a game they give up. That's far too many for a team that's a Stanley Cup contender to be giving up.

With guys like Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann in the lineup, I really think Holmgren is trying to shift the team's philosophy on the blue line in that he wants Laviolette to play a bit of a tighter system. I don't think he wants neutral zone trap tight, but they need to be better on the defensive zone than they've been.
100% spot on. Way too many scoring chances against.

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01-09-2013, 01:14 PM
  #198
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ive come to the conclusion that you are either trolling everyone or you clearly were not paying attention to the playoffs last year. That said, I am done with this part of the discussion. Not going to be baited into anymore ******* foolishness with you.
he has a point though. Quick wasn't as good against the devils as he was in the 3 prior series....he didnt have to be. They choked the crap out of the devils.

It's alot like leighton vs MTL...our team play ruined the habs, and ML looked good. When we couldn't match up/control the play with the hawks we got to see the real Leighton again.

There is a massive symbiotic relationship between goalies and team defense.

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01-09-2013, 01:18 PM
  #199
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he has a point though. Quick wasn't as good against the devils as he was in the 3 prior series....he didnt have to be. They choked the crap out of the devils.

It's alot like leighton vs MTL...our team play ruined the habs, and ML looked good. When we couldn't match up/control the play with the hawks we got to see the real Leighton again.

There is a massive symbiotic relationship between goalies and team defense.
Quick still deserved the Conn Smythe.

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01-09-2013, 01:23 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
If we struggle this year it will be b/c Bryz is inconsistent, our D gets exposed for the mediocre group that it currently is on paper at least, we can't generate on the PP since we have limited guns at the point, Lavy can't adapt or refuses to when things aren't going right...

IF those things become a moot point we should be fine...
I don't understand why you think our D is "mediocre"

assuming every is healthy, we have a pretty good blueline

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