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Luongo Talk: The Final Countdown...?

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01-09-2013, 01:30 AM
  #776
LeftCoast
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Burke should just say no ...

and let the next Leafs GM get his own goalie.

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01-09-2013, 01:36 AM
  #777
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Burke should just say no ...

and let the next Leafs GM get his own goalie.
Agreed. You can go home Leafs fans, nothing to see here anymore.

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01-09-2013, 01:45 AM
  #778
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C'mon guy. We should be thinking about how to upgrade our 4th line and getting some more depth in our press box for Luongo!!

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01-09-2013, 01:46 AM
  #779
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You guys would love Frattin, this guy is a bull.

He's fast as hell, hits like a mack-truck, beats defenders one on one and has a great shot. The only reason he didn't score 20 last year for the leafs was because he was snake bitten.

However, he's coming off a major surgery and although he seemed to be fine coming back, he's been a bit off lately.

Overall though, he's a player you fall in love with, the guy is a BEAST.

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01-09-2013, 01:48 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
You guys would love Frattin, this guy is a bull.

He's fast as hell, hits like a mack-truck, beats defenders one on one and has a great shot. The only reason he didn't score 20 last year for the leafs was because he was snake bitten.

However, he's coming off a major surgery and although he seemed to be fine coming back, he's been a bit off lately.

Overall though, he's a player you fall in love with, the guy is a BEAST.
Dont disagree, but not for luongo

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01-09-2013, 01:49 AM
  #781
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Dont disagree, but not for luongo
Fair, he definitely shouldn't be the center piece.

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01-09-2013, 01:52 AM
  #782
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The matter of fact is that there simply isn't much of a market for goalies like Luongo - his cap hit isn't bad even with the new CBA, but the length of the deal is and if he retires before he's 43 he could still be a burden to the team. The longer GMMG waits to trade, the lower his value is.

I'd still rather have Bozak + Frattin + 2nd than Luke Schenn, though.

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01-09-2013, 01:57 AM
  #783
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I'm interested to see what the Toronto fan offers are at the end of every month going forward...

What has the progression been (roughly) since early last offseason?

Komaserek + 4th then to Bozak + Kadri + 2nd now? Is that an accurate common Leaf fan value assessment?

If I'm Gillis, I put on my Daly hat, and I tell Burke the price is Gardiner + 1st (2013) + Frattin... and this is the hill we will die on...

The NHL/NHLPA early January, is the Trade Luongo next draft (or sometime next offseason)... There is still lots of time to come down in price... and there is no need to trade Luongo for anything short of a fantastic return as of today... Schneider is good with it... Luongo is good with it... The cap space is good with it... The Canucks are good with it... A Stanley Cup wouldn't discriminate against it... Luongo is a fantastic talent who may play an important role on a real long playoff run (knock on wood)...

There's a time to come down in price (if need be), but it's not right now, IMHO... If the goal is to both win a Stanley Cup this year and get real good value out of Luongo, then the only option is to wait (assuming a real good offer isn't already there)... Selling Luongo for low now (i.e. Kadri + Bozak + 2nd) neither positions the Canucks closer to win a Stanley Cup this year, nor gets real good value out of Luongo... It just does not satisfy the goals that Gillis has... It won't happen, IMHO, no matter how loud or many times Leaf fans and media say it...

I'd be very much ok with a low return for Luongo (i.e. Kadri + Bozak + 2nd), if it happens at the right time, after a year of trying (i.e. around last draft to around this draft)... What can you do? But dammit, if accepting a low return like Kadri + Bozak + 2nd I personally wouldn't be ok with it without first trying to position yourself to get the value you should (and can), IMO... Luongo is worth the wait (all around)...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 01-09-2013 at 02:03 AM.
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01-09-2013, 01:57 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Burke should just say no ...

and let the next Leafs GM get his own goalie.
It would be the classy thing to do for sure. Plus they could totally upgrade their first round pick. One thing Burke should never say no to is some more balls. Go Burkie. Go git you some.

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01-09-2013, 01:58 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Singh66 View Post
You guys would love Frattin, this guy is a bull.

He's fast as hell, hits like a mack-truck, beats defenders one on one and has a great shot. The only reason he didn't score 20 last year for the leafs was because he was snake bitten.

However, he's coming off a major surgery and although he seemed to be fine coming back, he's been a bit off lately.

Overall though, he's a player you fall in love with, the guy is a BEAST.
Did Trent Klatt make you swoon as well? He might be Klatt. Maybe Mike Grier?

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01-09-2013, 02:00 AM
  #786
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Bozak, Frattin and a 2 wouldn't even get you Michal Neuvirth let alone Roberto Luongo. Is a similar price (essentially in terms of value) that Tampa paid to get Lindback really where Luongo is valued?? Disgusting!

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01-09-2013, 02:02 AM
  #787
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Am I the only one who thinks all these PTO's that Florida is handing out to offensive forwards is foreshadowing that someone might leave (Weiss) & they will need another offensive player or too?

Their center depth would be fine IMO, Fleischmann could replace Weiss as the 1st line center, then Mueller could play on the 2nd, and Goc on the 3rd. Santorelli also scored 20 not all that long ago so he is an offensive option too IMO. Then Huberbeau and Mattias (Even though he isn't a great top 6 option) both can play center aswell.

Is Weiss, Petrovic and a conditional 2nd fair?

If Weiss re-signs then it is just him and Petro, if not then we get Petro and a 2nd, or in Petro in the deal too much all together? Weiss is good and has good value but him being a UFA who will likely not re-sign there and might not even be re-signed here if we take him, greatly impacts his value.

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01-09-2013, 02:10 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Am I the only one who thinks all these PTO's that Florida is handing out to offensive forwards is foreshadowing that someone might leave (Weiss) & they will need another offensive player or too?

Their center depth would be fine IMO, Fleischmann could replace Weiss as the 1st line center, then Mueller could play on the 2nd, and Goc on the 3rd. Santorelli also scored 20 not all that long ago so he is an offensive option too IMO. Then Huberbeau and Mattias (Even though he isn't a great top 6 option) both can play center aswell.

Is Weiss, Petrovic and a conditional 2nd fair?

If Weiss re-signs then it is just him and Petro, if not then we get Petro and a 2nd, or in Petro in the deal too much all together? Weiss is good and has good value but him being a UFA who will likely not re-sign there and might not even be re-signed here if we take him, greatly impacts his value.
Fleischmann isn't a center. And good luck working with the rest of those options and trying to make the playoffs. It's bad enough WITH Weiss in their lineup let alone without.

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01-09-2013, 02:19 AM
  #789
Sergei Shirokov
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Fleischmann isn't a center. And good luck working with the rest of those options and trying to make the playoffs. It's bad enough WITH Weiss in their lineup let alone without.
Yeah he is, C/LW. He also had more points than Weiss last year.

And so you don't think adding Luongo will help there playoff cause? even without Weiss?

Making the playoffs next year isn't a major thing for them IMO, I mean everyone wants in it obviously but they have there sights focused on the future, Tallon's job isn't on the line if they don't make it, so they have to look at getting something for Weiss while he is still around and can fetch a good return.

and I also think Luongo helps there playoffs cause just as much if not more so and probably more so than Weiss does.

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01-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Yeah he is, C/LW.

And so you don't think adding Luongo will help there playoff cause? even without Weiss?

Making the playoffs next year isn't a major thing for them IMO, I mean everyone wants in it obviously but they have there sights focused on the future, Tallon's job isn't on the line if they don't make it, so they have to look at getting something for Weiss while he is still around and can fetch a good return.

and I also think Luongo helps there playoffs cause just as much if not more so and probably more so than Weiss does.
I think it's delusional to think they'll trade Weiss, their top center, for a goalie they won't need. If they are trading Weiss and it "isn't a major thing" for them to make the playoffs, why not just run Markstrom? If they want to make the playoffs they'll keep Weiss and try and get Luongo for futures or pieces that won't impact their chances of getting in.

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01-09-2013, 02:26 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Am I the only one who thinks all these PTO's that Florida is handing out to offensive forwards is foreshadowing that someone might leave (Weiss) & they will need another offensive player or too?

Their center depth would be fine IMO, Fleischmann could replace Weiss as the 1st line center, then Mueller could play on the 2nd, and Goc on the 3rd. Santorelli also scored 20 not all that long ago so he is an offensive option too IMO. Then Huberbeau and Mattias (Even though he isn't a great top 6 option) both can play center aswell.

Is Weiss, Petrovic and a conditional 2nd fair?

If Weiss re-signs then it is just him and Petro, if not then we get Petro and a 2nd, or in Petro in the deal too much all together? Weiss is good and has good value but him being a UFA who will likely not re-sign there and might not even be re-signed here if we take him, greatly impacts his value.
Florida will not trade for Luongo only to create a massive hole in an already equally thin area of their lineup. They have prospects and picks and a couple of cap dumps in Upshall and Bergenheim

They will not trade Weiss until the deadline if at all and not likely not Versteeg.

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01-09-2013, 02:40 AM
  #792
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Ok can someone who is a cap genius explain to me what happens should Luo retire? Does the cap hit still stay on the books? The only thing I can find regarding that is the 35 and over rule which Luo doesn't come into as his contract was signed well before he turned 35. Are people moaning about the term just because they are concerned that he won't retire and will keep going until 43 (when his contract expires) despite the fact he'll only be on 1m a year?

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01-09-2013, 02:45 AM
  #793
Sergei Shirokov
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I think it's delusional to think they'll trade Weiss, their top center, for a goalie they won't need. If they are trading Weiss and it "isn't a major thing" for them to make the playoffs, why not just run Markstrom? If they want to make the playoffs they'll keep Weiss and try and get Luongo for futures or pieces that won't impact their chances of getting in.
Well what would be more beneficial to there success? Weiss when they have Flesichmann there or Luongo when both there goaltenders are decling and there team has gotten worse defensively.

I doubt this team is capable of making the playoffs the way they are, getting Luongo would really improve that chance. Weiss isn't great to give up but when you consider they will lose him anyway and probably for nothing why wouldn't they try to trade him and get something since they are shooting for the future more so than right now.

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Florida will not trade for Luongo only to create a massive hole in an already equally thin area of their lineup. They have prospects and picks and a couple of cap dumps in Upshall and Bergenheim

They will not trade Weiss until the deadline if at all and not likely not Versteeg.
I don't really think Versteeg is a fit, and I agree he isn't coming here, Weiss is different because it's unlikely he is going back, Would Luongo not improve there chances alot? since there goaltending isn't that great to start with and is declining, and there defense also lost a huge piece in Garrison (he was on there top pair) Ya there offense would take a big hit but there goaltending would gain a huge improvement, and as we have seen a great goalie can carry a lackluster offense more so than a better offense carrying a lackluster goalie.

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01-09-2013, 02:46 AM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Maccas View Post
Ok can someone who is a cap genius explain to me what happens should Luo retire? Does the cap hit still stay on the books? The only thing I can find regarding that is the 35 and over rule which Luo doesn't come into as his contract was signed well before he turned 35. Are people moaning about the term just because they are concerned that he won't retire and will keep going until 43 (when his contract expires) despite the fact he'll only be on 1m a year?
Due to the fact that his contract breaks the new "Luongo Rule".

If he reitres well still under contract, we will take half of his cap hit and the team that he is on takes half his cap hit for as long as the contract hasn't expired.

Hope that clears it up for you.

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01-09-2013, 03:11 AM
  #795
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About the 'cap benefit recapture formula'... couldn't the team that has Luongo just put him on LTIR when he's about to call it quits one day, and thus get around that rule?

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01-09-2013, 03:17 AM
  #796
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About the 'cap benefit recapture formula'... couldn't the team that has Luongo just put him on LTIR when he's about to call it quits one day, and thus get around that rule?
I think I heard them discuss on the radio that it isn't an option.

Essentially, retiring and LTIR are one in the same, I don't think there is any way around this 'Luongo Rule'.

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01-09-2013, 03:19 AM
  #797
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About the 'cap benefit recapture formula'... couldn't the team that has Luongo just put him on LTIR when he's about to call it quits one day, and thus get around that rule?
Someone on the Canucks boards came up with the great idea that they just buy him out before he is about to retire, of course that depends when they do it as to how willing they would be to do it, if they bought him out at the end of 2017-18 when he would be 38 (So in 5 years) the cost of the buyout would be just under 7 Million, so really for a buyout like that it's not a huge lose.

That way both sides wouldn't have to hold onto his cap hit.

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01-09-2013, 03:38 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Due to the fact that his contract breaks the new "Luongo Rule".

If he reitres well still under contract, we will take half of his cap hit and the team that he is on takes half his cap hit for as long as the contract hasn't expired.

Hope that clears it up for you.
Thats great thanks!

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01-09-2013, 03:43 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Someone on the Canucks boards came up with the great idea that they just buy him out before he is about to retire, of course that depends when they do it as to how willing they would be to do it, if they bought him out at the end of 2017-18 when he would be 38 (So in 5 years) the cost of the buyout would be just under 7 Million, so really for a buyout like that it's not a huge lose.

That way both sides wouldn't have to hold onto his cap hit.
How is that? Since when haven't buyouts counted against the cap (if you exclude these 2 compliance buyouts in the next two summers)?

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01-09-2013, 03:50 AM
  #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Someone on the Canucks boards came up with the great idea that they just buy him out before he is about to retire, of course that depends when they do it as to how willing they would be to do it, if they bought him out at the end of 2017-18 when he would be 38 (So in 5 years) the cost of the buyout would be just under 7 Million, so really for a buyout like that it's not a huge lose.

That way both sides wouldn't have to hold onto his cap hit.
Interesting idea. I can see Wang doing that, cost him 660k in cash and he gets 3.5m off the cap. We eat a bad $1m contract.

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