HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Time to Sign Subban

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2013, 10:19 PM
  #351
Habruti!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 2,003
vCash: 500
The max i would do is 4.5m/y for 3 years...

Habruti! is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 10:38 PM
  #352
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb View Post
But have you actually ever met him outside the ice? Or do you base your opinions only on stupid gossips and rumors?
Funny. Everyone I know that has met him and/or worked with him have nothing but good things to say...and this is without the cameras on. I don't think he's an angel, but I think the criticisms of him off the ice is so overblown.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 10:43 PM
  #353
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Funny. Everyone I know that has met him and/or worked with him have nothing but good things to say...and this is without the cameras on. I don't think he's an angel, but I think the criticisms of him off the ice is so overblown.
its what he does on the ice that matters, but by those standards, he's not worth norris money like he seems to want for a number of years. Maxpac's contract was great ...hope PK follows.

THE HOFF is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 11:07 PM
  #354
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 27,909
vCash: 500
I'd say 3 years at 5ish mil is fair. Give or take .5 mil

Phion Keneuf is online now  
Old
01-09-2013, 12:07 AM
  #355
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,510
vCash: 500
PK Subban is the sort of elite defenseman this team will need to win a stanley cup in the medium term. He has a tremendous talent, he rocks at both ends of the ice and he has a good work ethic, so he should get better. He has also thus far avoided major injury.

We should look him up long-term to give our team a solid foundation on the D, I suggest 9 years, 6.0 million per year. He gets almost the same salary as Price and reaches UFA at approximately the same age as Price, Gorges, and Pacioretty.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 02:54 AM
  #356
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
PK Subban is the sort of elite defenseman this team will need to win a stanley cup in the medium term. He has a tremendous talent, he rocks at both ends of the ice and he has a good work ethic, so he should get better. He has also thus far avoided major injury.

We should look him up long-term to give our team a solid foundation on the D, I suggest 9 years, 6.0 million per year. He gets almost the same salary as Price and reaches UFA at approximately the same age as Price, Gorges, and Pacioretty.
6 m per? its like i had too much icecream and my brain froze. 6m per ? maxpac > PK . PK should sign for 3.5 per and hustle to save his life. Hometown bias is fun but to say he's elite is just wrong. hes not. flashy =/= elite.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 01-09-2013 at 03:08 AM.
THE HOFF is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 04:52 AM
  #357
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
To be fair, it's not just in Qc. Maybe it is when speaking of hockey players, but that's because hockey is huge here. Just look at the paparazzis hovering over celebrities in the States. Hockey players are our stars in Mtl. So, despite not agreeing with it, or not sharing the interest, I can understand that some people get excited when they see a hockey player in the streets, or wtv.
What I don't understand is when so called experts discuss hockey related subjects (like players) and are completely, but completely way off. That's not stirring controversy, that's just being flat out wrong.
Imagine a TV station about real estate, and the experts on certain shows gave out bad ideas and opinions. What do you think would happen to them and their shows??
For some reason, it's accepted for the hockey related shows. I just don't get it.

I would love nothing more to listen to shows where people are actually bringing up interesting facts, and discussing various opinions intelligently. Heck, I'm sure we could round up a group of 10 posters from here and create a much more informative and interesting show than the garbage out there. Sadly, that'll never happen.



Well in that case, why don't all the players just sign to the lowest possible salary they can get and make sure we only get to the cap flooring??
That's ridiculous, PK is not only our best player and most promising star, but he's also a cash cow for the Habs. He's so easily marketable and must bring the Habs a ton of cash outside his performance. If he wants 5M, he's entitled to it.
I mean really, what is the discussion about here, if PK is worth 4 or 5M? Give him what he wants.
This guy is saying how much he loves it here, wants to play here, was drafted here, was a fan of the habs his whole life, he's already a huge star, possibly a superstar, and hopefully even play his whole career here, and we're arguing about 1-2M??? That's pathetic.

Trading PK is not an option. The Habs will always lose this trade unless the return is a massive over payment, and I don't see that happening. Even if in terms of skill the players are similar in the event of a trade, I'm willing to bet anything that the return will not have the charisma or marketability of PK, so Habs will end up losing cash over it.
It happens all the time, especially in the States. Look at the mainstream media, in particular Fox news. Most of what they spew is complete sensationalized nonsense, but if they can convince enough followers of their nonsense, then perception becomes reality for those following. Unfortunately most people don't like to think on their own and prefer to be told what to think.

I agree with you though.

habsfanatics is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:05 AM
  #358
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It happens all the time, especially in the States. Look at the mainstream media, in particular Fox news. Most of what they spew is complete sensationalized nonsense, but if they can convince enough followers of their nonsense, then perception becomes reality for those following. Unfortunately most people don't like to think on their own and prefer to be told what to think.

I agree with you though.
I've said it a million times on these boards, but I'd MUCH rather have this kind of insanity surrounding sports instead of politics/actual social issues.

This "Montreal media" stuff is way overblown.

Gabe84 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:18 AM
  #359
JGRB
#EllerThugLife
 
JGRB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Wasn't the whole point of the lockout for a new CBA to avoid teams getting stupid enough to say, give Subban 7M?
Totally.

That said with some of the owners in the league, I think stupid goes hand in hand...

JGRB is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 05:53 AM
  #360
shutehinside
Registered User
 
shutehinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,613
vCash: 500
PK should not make more than Markov. Quite simply Markov has a direct correlation with wins and losses that PK hasn't shown yet. He simply hasn't earned his keep yet, at least not at those numbers.

shutehinside is online now  
Old
01-09-2013, 06:15 AM
  #361
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
6 m per? its like i had too much icecream and my brain froze. 6m per ? maxpac > PK . PK should sign for 3.5 per and hustle to save his life. Hometown bias is fun but to say he's elite is just wrong. hes not. flashy =/= elite.
As much as you may prefer Pacioretty, and as useful as Patches is, he is more replaceable than Subban. Finding a defenceman who can play >24min/g as well as Subban is more difficult than finding a winger who can score like Pacioretty. Take a look at the free agent class next offseason - there are several top scoring wingers, but unless you win the bidding war for Edler (if he even hits the market), there is no Subban replacement.

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 06:21 AM
  #362
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
PK should not make more than Markov. Quite simply Markov has a direct correlation with wins and losses that PK hasn't shown yet. He simply hasn't earned his keep yet, at least not at those numbers.
Are you paying players for what they've done in the past, or for what they are likely to do over the length of the contract you are negotiating? Obviously the Habs should try to squeeze the best deal possible out of every situation, but if Subban holds out, or another team gets involved, I think you have to pay PK based on his likely contribution to winning games going forward, if the alternative is not having him on the ice with Montreal.

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 06:36 AM
  #363
Davebo
beep beep
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,872
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
The thing is if we ever sign him at $7M per year for a certain amount of years..let's say between 4-7 years..what's gonna happen if he decides to sit on his money and doesn't play good. Dougthy was less than stellar in his year following his contract extension. If that happens with subban, fans are going to kill Bergevin.
What if Gally does the same thing? What if he doesn't? That's a weak argument - pay him well then he under-performs...

You seem hell bent on singling out PK Subban for some reason, when he seems like the type of guy who would bleed bleu, blanc, et rouge for life.

What about him do you dislike, specifically?

Davebo is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 06:56 AM
  #364
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,661
vCash: 500
Subban is an RFA and he will be signed accordingly. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't signed by the 19th tho. The next few days will tell us much about him.

SeriousHabs is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:01 AM
  #365
Davebo
beep beep
 
Davebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,872
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Yup. I stand by what I've said. He seems to be a cancer in the locker room and some players publicly said that they didn't want to comment on Subban's attitude in the locker room. There will always be those who love Subban and those who hate him. Unfortunately, I just don't see him as a part of our future. Laviolette and Holmgren didn't even want to let go of Couturier for Subban last year..it says a lot about how they think of Couturier..not Subban. Couturier is a winner, a guy with a head on his shoulders..you win with those players..not with a guy like Subban who's so overrated and thinks of himself as a god. You build a winning team with guys with great attitudes: Price, Pacioretty, Leblanc, Galchenyuk, and you can see players with that attitude in Jones and Drouin. Plus, if he wants a contract similar to Dougthy..he can dream about it. You sign him over $4.5-5M per year and you will regret it. He's nowhere near the level of players like Pietrangelo and Doughty.
You call Couturier a winner - but not Subban.

Are you serious?

Since you seem to be a fan of the WJC - PK won WJC Gold - twice. How did Sean do at those tournaments? Oh yeah - 2G 1A in 7 games and a silver. PK got 6 points in 6 games in his last tournament - and gold again.

Please - single out Courturier's 'wins'. He's a decent player, but don't spout nonsense about who's a winner and who's not, when you are clearly wrong.

And cancer in the locker room? Quotes! Right ****ing now. Let's see them!

Davebo is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:14 AM
  #366
Habruti!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 2,003
vCash: 500
To me you to look at comparables ... He is IMHO deffinitively not in the Dougthy, Karlsson class and probably somewere between Johny Carlsson and Tyler myers....

Incidently that would be somewhere between 4 and 5. If he thinks he is worth the Money that the above two guys are making, then let him sit and roth for the rest of the season. I seriously think we would not do worst then last year and would still have a chance to make the playoff...

Habruti! is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:20 AM
  #367
Habruti!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 2,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
What if Gally does the same thing? What if he doesn't? That's a weak argument - pay him well then he under-performs...

You seem hell bent on singling out PK Subban for some reason, when he seems like the type of guy who would bleed bleu, blanc, et rouge for life.

What about him do you dislike, specifically?
Moanagement needs to be strict about what is required to make that type of money. You bring a good point with Gally... You also want to make sure his demands will be reasonable after his entry contract. Sign him for the rigth amount of money or let him wait and come to his senses...

Habruti! is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:55 AM
  #368
shutehinside
Registered User
 
shutehinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Are you paying players for what they've done in the past, or for what they are likely to do over the length of the contract you are negotiating? Obviously the Habs should try to squeeze the best deal possible out of every situation, but if Subban holds out, or another team gets involved, I think you have to pay PK based on his likely contribution to winning games going forward, if the alternative is not having him on the ice with Montreal.
I think it's a combination of the 2. Paying for what they've done as well as what you hope they will. Markov had shown both previous to his contract and it held true once he signed it. Simply put, Markov plays, Habs win.

For PK he's most definately got potential to be a top end defensman, but hasn't proven it yet. As such, how do you justify paying him more than a proven commodity based soley on what his potential could be? At his best, we hope PK could put up similiar numbers to Markov in his prime.

Markov got what he deserved, maybe a little less. I don't see why PK merits more than that especially now with a lower cap?

shutehinside is online now  
Old
01-09-2013, 07:59 AM
  #369
EveryDay
Registered User
 
EveryDay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,260
vCash: 500
Hoping for a 4 years at 4-4.5M .

EveryDay is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:16 AM
  #370
ClasslessGuy
Registered User
 
ClasslessGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St-Jean, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
I will accept anything up to 4yr at 4.5 per max

ClasslessGuy is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:28 AM
  #371
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,421
vCash: 500
People wanted Chelios gone too.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:49 AM
  #372
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
People wanted Chelios gone too.

Don't remind me. His knees won't last they said. Turned out to be one of the best and most durable defensemen of all time. Chelios was a bit of a loose canon off the ice though from what I've heard and got into trouble quite often. Apparently that's the real reason he was traded.

I think what irks people with PK is his flamboyant personality and his popularity. To someone who is say more of an introvert in the dressing room I could see it be a bit annoying. I could see him talking pretty much constantly and that could annoy certain players. But going from that to hating the guy downright is quite the leap.

Could be way off though, just speculating.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:51 AM
  #373
Gustave
Registered User
 
Gustave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Here
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 2,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
People wanted Chelios gone too.
This.

Let's learn from past mistakes this time. And Chelios was about twice as much a distraction and an absolute ******* throughout his tenure here and everywhere for that matter. Guy still belongs in the HOF.

Gustave is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #374
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
PK should not make more than Markov. Quite simply Markov has a direct correlation with wins and losses that PK hasn't shown yet. He simply hasn't earned his keep yet, at least not at those numbers.
PK is the #1 dman on the team.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
01-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #375
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,891
vCash: 500
Again, 4 years is the worst possible term to sign PK for as that means all we have done is "lock him up" for the remainder of his RFA years and then he is a UFA. Managing your assets properly means signing younger players that you want to keep for the long term into their UFA years, like the Habs did with Patches and Price. Best term for me is 2 years because then you give PK the chance to show he is a top 2 elite D-man and then be able to justify paying hom accordingly. You also then have 2 RFA years to leverage him into a long term deal. A 3 year deal leaves only one year of RFA left and he'd be more likely to be tempted to then sign a one year deal to see what the UFA market would pay him than if the Habs offered him the big deal with 2 RFA years left. Signing him to a 6 or 7 year deal would be difficult because though he was our top minute D-man last year and performed well in my view for a 3rd year guy with that responsiblity, he didn't show elite, dominating abilities for which you would pay top dollar, and I'm guessing he would want top dollar for a 6-7 year deal. So 2 years is best, one year is second best, 3 years is a makes me nervous 3rd best, 4 years is terrible and gets MB a what the hell are you doing from me, and longer than 4 is tough to figure a reasonable number. I mean if PK will do 6-7 years at $4.5M I'd do it, but at this point I don't see how you could justify paying him much more than that.

yianik is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.