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el Nino vs Chris Krieder

View Poll Results: who would you rather have on your team
nino 68 42.77%
krieder 91 57.23%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:05 AM
  #26
bruinsfan46
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Nino, had one really bad year (playing as a teenager in the NHL on a bad team with horrible linemates) but has still been a more consistent performer than Kreider over the last handful of years.

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01-07-2013, 01:52 AM
  #27
MastuhNinks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Kreider is a star and has played like it at every level: NHL Playoffs, College, Juniors. Only a hater would weigh meaningless AHL season that's nothing more than a time killer for guys who are already in the league.
30 point pace = playing like a star?

In that case Nazem Kadri has played like a star in his last two stints in the NHL. Who woulda thunk it considering all the hate he gets.

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:45 AM
  #28
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Have to go with Kreider here.

Kreider will be put in a position to succeed on a great NHL team with great players. It would not surprise me seeing a Calder trophy added to Kreider's hardware next year playing on a line with Richards and some combination of Nash/Gaborik/Callahan. This will probably give Kreider the confidence to make it big in the NHL.

Nino already had a bust year in the NHL. Granted he was playing 4th line minutes with horrible NHL players but if Nino was any good he would have made that line somewhat productive and would force the coaches to at least move him to a 3rd line or better.

Kreider is bigger and is a better skater that Nino.

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01-07-2013, 03:18 AM
  #29
PG Canuck
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01-07-2013, 05:34 AM
  #30
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people and their points pace and college and AHL points in # games greater or equal to the derivative of the function of the # NHL points in the # of NHL games relative to the quality of the NHL team and line he played with blah blah blah.

How about the players themselves and their skill sets, attributes, weaknesses and strengths, maturity and mentalistic skills? Hockey is a game with so much intangibles and yet people like to sit around bickering about numbers all day and get it wrong half the times.

Kreider has some parts of his game still missing/lacking but I'm sure Torts will coach that into him and the veterans on the team will help him through a lot of it. The kid has good composure, experience on the big stage, Tortorella approved work ethic and on good days, his release and speed looks like Gaborik's. Kreider is more NHL ready now.

Equating point production and then equating players to one and another and then equating comments on player 1 to player 2 or well establish facts about player 2 back to player 1 is pretty bad logic and argument.

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01-07-2013, 06:35 AM
  #31
InjuredChoker
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I like Nino but have to go with Kreider here. Hope last season won't hurt Nino long-term.

Has Nino improved his skating?

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Old
01-07-2013, 06:39 AM
  #32
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Nino, but its very close. My opinion is different now then it was a few months ago after watching a few AHL games

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01-07-2013, 07:44 AM
  #33
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01-07-2013, 09:54 AM
  #34
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I'd like to see Nino get a shot on that Moulson-Tavares line in camp. If he can gain some chemistry with those two(mainly Tavares) I could see him having a huge sophomore season. I really like Kreider too though. Not sure who will be the better player in the long run but since I'm an Isles fan I'll pick Nino.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:10 AM
  #35
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For next season I'd take Kreider. After that it's more or less a toss up, but I'd probably lean towards Nino.

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01-07-2013, 02:27 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
people and their points pace and college and AHL points in # games greater or equal to the derivative of the function of the # NHL points in the # of NHL games relative to the quality of the NHL team and line he played with blah blah blah.

How about the players themselves and their skill sets, attributes, weaknesses and strengths, maturity and mentalistic skills? Hockey is a game with so much intangibles and yet people like to sit around bickering about numbers all day and get it wrong half the times.

Kreider has some parts of his game still missing/lacking but I'm sure Torts will coach that into him and the veterans on the team will help him through a lot of it. The kid has good composure, experience on the big stage, Tortorella approved work ethic and on good days, his release and speed looks like Gaborik's. Kreider is more NHL ready now.

Equating point production and then equating players to one and another and then equating comments on player 1 to player 2 or well establish facts about player 2 back to player 1 is pretty bad logic and argument.
I don't care if your 7'0 and the fastest forward in the league, a 30 point pace for a forward is not playing like a star.

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Old
01-08-2013, 08:40 AM
  #37
Le Magnifique 66
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01-08-2013, 04:34 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I don't care if your 7'0 and the fastest forward in the league, a 30 point pace for a forward is not playing like a star.
What about the players who score at a PPG in the AHL but then bust in the NHL? What about their stardom?

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01-08-2013, 04:44 PM
  #39
MastuhNinks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
What about the players who score at a PPG in the AHL but then bust in the NHL? What about their stardom?
What do you mean what about them? I don't know what the hell you're talking about, nobody claimed that everyone who goes a point per game in the AHL is a star. A user said that Kreider played like a star at every level he played, including the NHL and I was merely pointing out that that isn't at all the case.

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01-08-2013, 07:27 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
What about the players who score at a PPG in the AHL but then bust in the NHL? What about their stardom?
I would have to imagine based on what i recall that it is very rare for 20 year olds to score at a ppg in the AHL and not make it. Almost everytime a player does that at that age (typically this is the first year of AHL eligability) he does go onto be a very good NHLer. The only exception is possibly due to a player being far too small or slow, but even then that is very very rare. Usually those small/slow guys often play extra years of junior/college and don't end up in the AHL until 21-24. Some guys who go on to become excellent AHLers who can't make the show only start having that kind of success in their mid 20's and almost always have a debilitating lack of skill/package in one area (i.e. St.Pierre is too short, Giroux is too slow and both were older when the success came). The fact of the matter is most current/future top 6 forwards are estabished in the NHL by 25, this is why these "ppg" guys in the AHL don't make it, their too old and they lack something they need at the next level in comparison to the superior talent that made the jump before them and that is coming up behind them. The real high end scoring talent is long gone from the AHL before they hit their peak. It's always easier to score in a league that you've had time to become accustomed to the speed of, it's the veteran advantage. A 20-21 year old typically needs alot more skill to score at the same rate as a comfortable veteran, and even if he is only as skilled his upside is obviously going to give him the edge in the GM/coaches eyes in most cases.

Edit: I should add that an injury can quickly change a players potential. As an Oiler fan we've had multiple who at some point were tracking very well only to lose much of their talent due to injury. Dough Lynch, JF Jacques, and to a less extent MA Pouliot and Rob Schremp. This is a possible exception. Being a PP specialist (schremp) is also a possible exception although this is a very uncommon exception i would think, and the reason they are a PP specialist is again due to a debilitating lack of skill (defense at evens, speed, size. Rob Schremp had all of these things mentioned in the edit affect his career path, yet his offense at a young age did get him a few cups of coffee in the NHL).


Last edited by Eskimo44: 01-08-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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Old
01-08-2013, 11:35 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
What do you mean what about them? I don't know what the hell you're talking about, nobody claimed that everyone who goes a point per game in the AHL is a star. A user said that Kreider played like a star at every level he played, including the NHL and I was merely pointing out that that isn't at all the case.
Every meaningful level NHL Playoffs, College, Juniors. The AHL is nothing but a way to stay in shape none of the guys who will be in the NHL actually cared about it.

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01-08-2013, 11:37 PM
  #42
Eskimo44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Every meaningful level NHL Playoffs, College, Juniors. The AHL is nothing but a way to stay in shape none of the guys who will be in the NHL actually cared about it.
This is so absurd it's ridiculous.

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01-08-2013, 11:42 PM
  #43
slightlystewpid420
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neither

Atkinson > Nino > Krieder

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01-08-2013, 11:45 PM
  #44
MastuhNinks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
Every meaningful level NHL Playoffs, College, Juniors. The AHL is nothing but a way to stay in shape none of the guys who will be in the NHL actually cared about it.
But my entire point was that he didn't play like a star in the NHL playoffs, even if you ignore the AHL completely he played at a 30 point pace in the playoffs. Nazem Kadri played at a similar pace throughout his stints in the NHL at the same age and you wouldn't say he played like a star.

That doesn't mean that he's a bust or not a good prospect, just simply pointing out that it's fallacious to say he played like a star at every level, especially if you're citing his 18 game stint in the NHL.

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Old
01-08-2013, 11:47 PM
  #45
Richards to Gaborik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
neither

Atkinson > Nino > Krieder
Yakupov>Atkinson>Nino>Kreider.

Am I doing it right? Or should I throw in another random player that has nothing to do with this poll?

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01-09-2013, 12:31 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
But my entire point was that he didn't play like a star in the NHL playoffs, even if you ignore the AHL completely he played at a 30 point pace in the playoffs. Nazem Kadri played at a similar pace throughout his stints in the NHL at the same age and you wouldn't say he played like a star.

That doesn't mean that he's a bust or not a good prospect, just simply pointing out that it's fallacious to say he played like a star at every level, especially if you're citing his 18 game stint in the NHL.
And if you break that down further we see that he didn't play as a star in the NHL or the AHL so essentially the highest level he's played like a star at was college.

Were he was about a PPG. Once. In his 3rd season.

Hooray for the NCAA star.

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01-09-2013, 02:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
And if you break that down further we see that he didn't play as a star in the NHL or the AHL so essentially the highest level he's played like a star at was college.

Were he was about a PPG. Once. In his 3rd season.

Hooray for the NCAA star.
Kreider was a star and very clutch in big games and big tournaments such as the Beanpot, NCAA championship, WJC and the NHL playoffs.

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Old
01-09-2013, 03:01 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
But my entire point was that he didn't play like a star in the NHL playoffs, even if you ignore the AHL completely he played at a 30 point pace in the playoffs.
News Flash: there is more to being a star than just points.

Not to mention a 30 point pace while playing 4th line minutes on a defensive minded team is extremely impressive

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Old
01-09-2013, 04:12 AM
  #49
Talks to Goalposts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Kreider was a star and very clutch in big games and big tournaments such as the Beanpot, NCAA championship, WJC and the NHL playoffs.
So 3 tournaments against amateur or junior level competition. The term NCAA star seems to remain applicable.

And he hardly set the world on fire in the NHL playoffs. He got some points in a minor support role, hardly stuff of legend. The term star of the NHL playoffs seems ... misplaced... in this instance. I'd used that for someone that carried his team, not was present and helped out.


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Old
01-09-2013, 04:43 AM
  #50
TheNeutrality
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It seems like most of you forget that Kreider is over a year older than Niederreiter. And because of that, they are not at the same point of their development.

Kreider was scoring at a 0.75 ppga clip in the NCAA when he was 19 years old.
Nino already played in the NHL at this age (He shouldn't have, but he did/had to). With 18, he was scoring at a 1.27 ppga clip in the WHL while wearing the "A" on a stacked Winterhawks team.

Do you guys really believe that Kreider would have had a better season with Marty Reasoner and Jay Pandolfo on his side as a 19 years old NHL rookie, who was concussed early in the season?

As a 20 years old, Kreider came to the Rangers due to an emergency call (iirc?) and had 7 points (5 goals) in 18 games.
Niederreiter, at the same age, is leading his AHL team (which is suffering from multiple injuries) in points, is 7th in the scoring race league wide (with guys like Hall, Eberle and RNH playing) and 5th in terms of goals.


Both players show great potential! Yes, Nino's rookie season last year was terrible. Just as Kreider's season now in the AHL isn't exactly overwhelming. But Nino seems to rebound and Kreider has already shown what he is capable of.

So please look at it from a objective point of view. They both are still young enough to come out big... or to bust big time

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