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01-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #376
Canadian_Brewtality
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i would do 6 years, 30-35 mil

you cant sign Pax, Price, Plek, to 5+ year deals, and give him 2, wont work

he may irritate people off ice, but w/out him in the lineup, its ugly. And nobody in hamilton can fill his spot anytime soon.

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01-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #377
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Okay so he hasn't proven that he can win us a cup but who has? The kid lead the defense last year eating 20+ minutes per game while playing on every situation with minimal help on the back end. I agree with most that he doesn't deserve doughty money but if he asks for long term 4-5 mil per, I say give it to him.

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01-09-2013, 09:16 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i would do 6 years, 30-35 mil

you cant sign Pax, Price, Plek, to 5+ year deals, and give him 2, wont work

he may irritate people off ice, but w/out him in the lineup, its ugly. And nobody in hamilton can fill his spot anytime soon.
of course you can, Max, Price, all got 2 year deals after their ELC, and after that is when they got their long term contracts.

Why should Subban be any different...

Mtl likes to give 2 year deals for everyone coming off an ELC

Weber,Diaz, Emlin, Patches, DD, Eller Price...

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Old
01-09-2013, 09:19 AM
  #379
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
6 m per? its like i had too much icecream and my brain froze. 6m per ? maxpac > PK . PK should sign for 3.5 per and hustle to save his life. Hometown bias is fun but to say he's elite is just wrong. hes not. flashy =/= elite.
I love MaxPac, but in no way is he more valuable than PK. Not even close. Just generally speaking, a Dman is always more valuable as there's less than them.
PK is already a top 2 Dman, arguably #1 Dman. MaxPac is only a top 6 winger at this point. But we should not compare Forwards and Defensemen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
PK should not make more than Markov. Quite simply Markov has a direct correlation with wins and losses that PK hasn't shown yet. He simply hasn't earned his keep yet, at least not at those numbers.
I wouldn't be opposed to that except that Markov has barely played. I'm not even sure Markov should be making Markov money at this point. He's a big question mark, and hopefully we'll have a positive answer this year.
The reason we haven't seen a direct correlation between wins and losses without PK is because he never got injured, which is a great thing and we want to keep it that way.
In any event, it's irrelevant. Pittsburgh managed to play just as well without Crosby, doesn't mean they don't miss him or that he's not important.

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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
You call Couturier a winner - but not Subban.

Are you serious?

Since you seem to be a fan of the WJC - PK won WJC Gold - twice. How did Sean do at those tournaments? Oh yeah - 2G 1A in 7 games and a silver. PK got 6 points in 6 games in his last tournament - and gold again.
Actually it's 9pts in 6gp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
To me you to look at comparables ... He is IMHO deffinitively not in the Dougthy, Karlsson class and probably somewere between Johny Carlsson and Tyler myers....

Incidently that would be somewhere between 4 and 5. If he thinks he is worth the Money that the above two guys are making, then let him sit and roth for the rest of the season. I seriously think we would not do worst then last year and would still have a chance to make the playoff...
To be fair, it's not 4-5M, it's between 24-39M spread between 6-7 years.
You don't let a 23yo player, your best one, just sit and rot for a season. What's the point? If you can't agree on a deal, you move him, but in PK's case, you don't move him, you make sure you sign him even if you're the one that has to dish out more, because in the end, he'll likely be worth every penny. There is no question mark with PK. We know he's a star, we know he can play in every situation, we know he's already amazing. The only question is can he improve even more to reach the superstar status. I don't mind investing money, more of it, in guys like him.

Also, of course chances are we won't do worse than last year, we finished 28th! That means there's only 2 worse places as opposed to 27 better ones, and if we look at our roster, it's all healthy including Markov and Gionta, only Noke is out.
Sadly, it's not just about where we are in the standings. Letting your best player rot for a year is the worst possible form of management. You just don't do that.

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Old
01-09-2013, 09:24 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We should look him up long-term to give our team a solid foundation on the D, I suggest 9 years, 6.0 million per year.
Your suggestion wouldn't be approved. There's a new 8 year limit when re-signing your player.

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01-09-2013, 09:25 AM
  #381
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
of course you can, Max, Price, all got 2 year deals after their ELC, and after that is when they got their long term contracts.

Why should Subban be any different...

Mtl likes to give 2 year deals for everyone coming off an ELC

Weber,Diaz, Emlin, Patches, DD, Eller Price...
Because PK is ahead of where all those guys were after their ELC. Not everybody is on the same level. None of them had much power to negotiate. Not one of them had such success as PK in their first 2 years in the NHL. The guy is already established as a top 2 Dmen, argualy even #1. Not even Price had locked his #1 position, matter of fact, before his ELC ended, he lost the starting job to Halak.
PK is ahead of them all.
As I already mentioned earlier, Bob Gainey was the most strict GM in terms of internal policies. No negotiations during the season, but even he made an exception with Koivu.
Now, we don't even know if Bergevin's policy is to give out 2 year terms after the ELC, that was the previous administration. But even if it is, he can make an exception for PK.

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01-09-2013, 09:25 AM
  #382
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I have a hard time beleiving Subban can't accept a 3 years deal if the money is right.

He says that he wants to stay in Montreal for as long as possible, then he has to give his GM the tools to make that possible. If Subban receives a 4+ year deal, then the 27-or-7 rule still applies and he gets a shot at Free Agency.

And we all know what's gonna happen if Subban becomes a UFA. He'll get insane offers from most clubs and this will force MB's hand into giving him a huge contract.

So, Subban has to choose between greed and loyalty here. If he insists on a 4+ year contract, then I'm very sorry but it looks like he's not putting his money where your mouth is, so to speak.

Edit: The way I see things, I believe what's best for both party is something around a 3 year 14-16 million deal.

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Old
01-09-2013, 09:31 AM
  #383
habs03
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Because PK is ahead of where all those guys were after their ELC. Not everybody is on the same level. None of them had much power to negotiate. Not one of them had such success as PK in their first 2 years in the NHL. The guy is already established as a top 2 Dmen, argualy even #1. Not even Price had locked his #1 position, matter of fact, before his ELC ended, he lost the starting job to Halak.
PK is ahead of them all.
As I already mentioned earlier, Bob Gainey was the most strict GM in terms of internal policies. No negotiations during the season, but even he made an exception with Koivu.
Now, we don't even know if Bergevin's policy is to give out 2 year terms after the ELC, that was the previous administration. But even if it is, he can make an exception for PK.
You make a good point in that PK is far ahead of those guys when their ELC ended, but it still seems to be the same policy, Emelin, Diaz, Eller, all signed under Bergevin, and they kept Patrick Boivin as the cap guy for the team.

And also an atricle on TVA sport a couple of days after mentioned one that one of Subban agent said that the Habs have a policy in regards to this and they will find a solution...I'll try to find it.


http://tvasports.ca/hockey/canadiens...subban-8012013


Last edited by habs03: 01-09-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old
01-09-2013, 09:58 AM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
PK is the #1 dman on the team.
He's the #2, behind Markov.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:02 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

Actually it's 9pts in 6gp.
Thanks. Makes my point.... pointier?

Ahh - I see where I went wrong. I was looking at PIM's in the stats...

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:07 AM
  #386
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
He's the #2, behind Markov.
Not for now he's not. Markov has been out for a very long time. If he gets back to form, then sure, he can be our #2. But that doesn't matter. Who was the #2 in Nashville between Suter and Weber?..Both PK and Markov are #1 Dmen, or top pairing Ds.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
He's the #2, behind Markov.
Where have you been the last 2+ years. He's ahead of Markov right now.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:12 AM
  #388
Beendair Donedat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
He's the #2, behind Markov.
No.

Markov is no longer the "de facto" number one defenseman. Subban is the number one guy now and has carried this team while Markov has hardly played in years.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:15 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not for now he's not. Markov has been out for a very long time. If he gets back to form, then sure, he can be our #2. But that doesn't matter. Who was the #2 in Nashville between Suter and Weber?..Both PK and Markov are #1 Dmen, or top pairing Ds.
It's really hard to say how the roles will play out...

Subban Markov and Gorges should be in the top 4.

Emelin should be in too. Kaberle could be in there also.

Guys like Diaz Bouillon Weber will be more #5-6-7

With the quick start and with guys not having played they may chose to balance the pairs.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:21 AM
  #390
GordonGraham
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
No.

Markov is no longer the "de facto" number one defenseman. Subban is the number one guy now and has carried this team
carried the team to last place, loved that Gionta interview from yesterday

"Havent seen Pk in 6 months guess theres not enough promo work for him to be in Montreal"

+A couple weeks ago gionta was pissed at him for not inviting any of the habs player training in montreal to play in the team subban vs team stamkos game

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:28 AM
  #391
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
carried the team to last place, loved that Gionta interview from yesterday

"Havent seen Pk in 6 months guess theres not enough promo work for him to be in Montreal"

+A couple weeks ago gionta was pissed at him for not inviting any of the habs player training in montreal to play in the team subban vs team stamkos game
So Gionta has a grudge? Certainly hope it was a joke.
As I previously stated, I've seen PK downtown in Mtl quite a few times going as far back as early summer all the way to mid december (sometimes on a weekly basis). So I know for a fact he's been in Mtl often.

And how did PK carry the team to last place?

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:28 AM
  #392
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
You call Couturier a winner - but not Subban.

Are you serious?

Since you seem to be a fan of the WJC - PK won WJC Gold - twice. How did Sean do at those tournaments? Oh yeah - 2G 1A in 7 games and a silver. PK got 6 points in 6 games in his last tournament - and gold again.

Please - single out Courturier's 'wins'. He's a decent player, but don't spout nonsense about who's a winner and who's not, when you are clearly wrong.

And cancer in the locker room? Quotes! Right ****ing now. Let's see them!
Actually, PK had 9 points in 6 games in his last WJC tournament.

2007-2008:
U20 WJC Gold Medal

2008-2009:
OHL First All-Star Team
U20 WJC All-Star Team
U20 WJC Best Plus/Minus (+12)
U20 WJC Gold Medal
U20 WJC Most Points by Defenseman (9)
U20 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

2009-2010:
AHL All-Rookie Team
AHL First All-Star Team

2010-2011:
NHL All-Rookie Team

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01-09-2013, 10:29 AM
  #393
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
carried the team to last place, loved that Gionta interview from yesterday

"Havent seen Pk in 6 months guess theres not enough promo work for him to be in Montreal"

+A couple weeks ago gionta was pissed at him for not inviting any of the habs player training in montreal to play in the team subban vs team stamkos game
We get it. You don't like the guy. Regardless, he's our #1dman. Markov is not.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:31 AM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Actually, PK had 9 points in 6 games in his last WJC tournament.

2007-2008:
U20 WJC Gold Medal

2008-2009:
OHL First All-Star Team
U20 WJC All-Star Team
U20 WJC Best Plus/Minus (+12)
U20 WJC Gold Medal
U20 WJC Most Points by Defenseman (9)
U20 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

2009-2010:
AHL All-Rookie Team
AHL First All-Star Team

2010-2011:
NHL All-Rookie Team
Lets not forget that game tying goal in game 7 against the Bruins. PK is a winner and has the heart of a lion point blank.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:34 AM
  #395
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
We get it. You don't like the guy. Regardless, he's our #1dman. Markov is not.
I don't get why anybody would dislike PK..It really doesn't make any sense.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:49 AM
  #396
Pierre Dagenais
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonGraham View Post
carried the team to last place, loved that Gionta interview from yesterday

"Havent seen Pk in 6 months guess theres not enough promo work for him to be in Montreal"

+A couple weeks ago gionta was pissed at him for not inviting any of the habs player training in montreal to play in the team subban vs team stamkos game
Link to Gionta interview?

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:50 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not for now he's not. Markov has been out for a very long time. If he gets back to form, then sure, he can be our #2. But that doesn't matter. Who was the #2 in Nashville between Suter and Weber?..Both PK and Markov are #1 Dmen, or top pairing Ds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Where have you been the last 2+ years. He's ahead of Markov right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
No.

Markov is no longer the "de facto" number one defenseman. Subban is the number one guy now and has carried this team while Markov has hardly played in years.
Marvkov has definately been on the shelf most of the time PK has been in the lineup. When Markov did come back last year, he went back to being the #1 guy and I don't see why he wouldn't this year, especially considering he's been playing and playing well in the KHL.

PK was the default #1 when Markov wasn't around but now that he's back, I don't see Markov not being the go to guy, at least not the 1A yo Subban's 1B.

The Habs winning % doesn't lie. Markov is integral and PK will be, just hasn't surpassed Markov yet, IMO.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:53 AM
  #398
Pierre Dagenais
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Marvkov has definately been on the shelf most of the time PK has been in the lineup. When Markov did come back last year, he went back to being the #1 guy and I don't see why he wouldn't this year, especially considering he's been playing and playing well in the KHL.

PK was the default #1 when Markov wasn't around but now that he's back, I don't see Markov not being the go to guy, at least not the 1A yo Subban's 1B.

The Habs winning % doesn't lie. Markov is integral and PK will be, just hasn't surpassed Markov yet, IMO.
Actually, when Markov came back from injury, PK still had the most icetime on the team. Markov averaged 18 minutes per game and only played 2 games over 20 mins.

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:02 AM
  #399
GordonGraham
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Link to Gionta interview?
they mentionned in on the radio here this morning

all i could find online was this
http://25stanley.com/pk-subban-ne-se...s-contrat.html

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01-09-2013, 11:05 AM
  #400
shutehinside
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Actually, when Markov came back from injury, PK still had the most icetime on the team. Markov averaged 18 minutes per game and only played 2 games over 20 mins.
yes but remeber that Markov had just come back from his second major knee surgery and the Habs were already out of the playoffs. Markov was inthe line up more to get his feet wet than to compete. Many people were saying to leave him out all together until he for sure knew his knee was 100% during the off season.

With his play in the KHL and another summer of rehab, there's no reason now to think his knee isn't at 100% and he canbare the ice time he used to play before the injury. He's averaged more than 21min. a gme in the KHL this year.

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