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Hall vs. Seguin (Better Player to Build Around)

View Poll Results: Who will have the best career?
Taylor Hall 89 40.09%
Tyler Seguin 133 59.91%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-08-2013, 11:49 AM
  #76
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Hall had 2 less goals in 20 less games. He scored at a 36 goal pace. You and I both know there is a lot more than just 7 goals separating a 29 goal scorer from a "36 goal scorer".

Hall also had 24 goals in his final 43 games last season(Seguin had 29 goals in 81 games last season). That went all the way back to mid November. That's a 46 goal pace. Considering he was on a 4 game goal scoring streak when he got hurt, it's probably safe to say he wasn't slowing down any time soon. Had his season not been cut short, his GPG would have been a lot higher.
Oh please, you can absolutely not call Taylor Hall a "36 goal scorer" when hes never even gone above 27 in one season. How do you know Hall wouldnt have had a slump to end the season? It happens you know.

Do you also realize how many times you alluded to some variation of "on pace" in your post? Now, there is some merit to citing pace in an argument because its not likely Hall would have gotten 0 goals in the final games, but to use it in this argument is ridiculous. What would have been your opinion if Hall actually played the final games and ended up with 31 goals? Completely possible for a 2nd year player who hasnt played a full NHL season yet. Would he be a "significantly" better scorer than Seguin then as well? Is that two goal difference significant?

Your also basing your argument solely on points (or "on pace" fake points, with Hall). Anyone can see how gifted of a goal scorer Seguin is, its one of his greatest strengths. To suggest Hall is "significantly" better is ridiculous.

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01-08-2013, 12:06 PM
  #77
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I always laughed at the " on pace " arguments. I've seen enough of it from Leaf fans to know to dismiss just about any on argument based on " on pace " production.

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01-08-2013, 12:10 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Oh please, you can absolutely not call Taylor Hall a "36 goal scorer" when hes never even gone above 27 in one season. How do you know Hall wouldnt have had a slump to end the season? It happens you know.

Do you also realize how many times you alluded to some variation of "on pace" in your post? Now, there is some merit to citing pace in an argument because its not likely Hall would have gotten 0 goals in the final games, but to use it in this argument is ridiculous. What would have been your opinion if Hall actually played the final games and ended up with 31 goals? Completely possible for a 2nd year player who hasnt played a full NHL season yet. Would he be a "significantly" better scorer than Seguin then as well? Is that two goal difference significant?

Your also basing your argument solely on points (or "on pace" fake points, with Hall). Anyone can see how gifted of a goal scorer Seguin is, its one of his greatest strengths. To suggest Hall is "significantly" better is ridiculous.
I'm not a big fan of the "on pace" arguments either but Hall scored 2 less goals than Seguin in 20 less games and this is over a 61 compared to 81 game stretch, not a small sample size so it's pretty safe to say that Hall was clearly the more efficient goal scorer last season. I don't know what the future holds for these two but thus far in their careers, Hall has been the more efficient goal scorer.

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01-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #79
Sky04
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I'm not a big fan of the "on pace" arguments either but Hall scored 2 less goals than Seguin in 20 less games and this is over a 61 compared to 81 game stretch, not a small sample size so it's pretty safe to say that Hall was clearly the more efficient goal scorer last season. I don't know what the future holds for these two but thus far in their careers, Hall has been the more efficient goal scorer.
That is exactly how it should be said, calling Hall a 36 goal scorer is stupid considering he's never even reached 30, on pace means nothing. However it cannot be denied that Hall was more efficient given the amount of games in that department last season.

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01-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #80
Wheatking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Oh please, you can absolutely not call Taylor Hall a "36 goal scorer" when hes never even gone above 27 in one season. How do you know Hall wouldnt have had a slump to end the season? It happens you know.

Do you also realize how many times you alluded to some variation of "on pace" in your post? Now, there is some merit to citing pace in an argument because its not likely Hall would have gotten 0 goals in the final games, but to use it in this argument is ridiculous. What would have been your opinion if Hall actually played the final games and ended up with 31 goals? Completely possible for a 2nd year player who hasnt played a full NHL season yet. Would he be a "significantly" better scorer than Seguin then as well? Is that two goal difference significant?

Your also basing your argument solely on points (or "on pace" fake points, with Hall). Anyone can see how gifted of a goal scorer Seguin is, its one of his greatest strengths. To suggest Hall is "significantly" better is ridiculous.
You should like the "on pace" argument because if anything, it doesn't do Hall justice. Could Hall have hit a wall? Of course. I'd bet against it.

Here is how Hall's season breaks down.

First 10 games- 3 goals
Next 10 games- 3 goals
Next 10 games- 5 goals
Next 10 games- 6 goals
Next 10 games- 5 goals
Final 10 games- 5 goals

He went goalless from game 9-17. Other than that he was very consistent. 40 games of consistency. 40 games of playing at a 45 goal pace. Much higher than a 36 goal pace. That's why you should like the "on pace" argument. A 9 game drought hurts his average and takes away from the player he was on a game to game basis. But even with the drought he was much higher than Seguin.

...and I put "36 goal scorer" in quotations because I knew you would be drawn to that and likely ignore everything else I said. Did he score 36 goals? No. However, he did play like one and that was my point. We're talking specifically about who is the better goal scorer when they're both healthy.

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01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Oh please, you can absolutely not call Taylor Hall a "36 goal scorer" when hes never even gone above 27 in one season. How do you know Hall wouldnt have had a slump to end the season? It happens you know.

Do you also realize how many times you alluded to some variation of "on pace" in your post? Now, there is some merit to citing pace in an argument because its not likely Hall would have gotten 0 goals in the final games, but to use it in this argument is ridiculous. What would have been your opinion if Hall actually played the final games and ended up with 31 goals? Completely possible for a 2nd year player who hasnt played a full NHL season yet. Would he be a "significantly" better scorer than Seguin then as well? Is that two goal difference significant?

Your also basing your argument solely on points (or "on pace" fake points, with Hall). Anyone can see how gifted of a goal scorer Seguin is, its one of his greatest strengths. To suggest Hall is "significantly" better is ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I always laughed at the " on pace " arguments. I've seen enough of it from Leaf fans to know to dismiss just about any on argument based on " on pace " production.
Ok

Career NHL Reg Season Points
Taylor Hall: 95
Tyler Seguin: 89

Glad we could resolve that so easily.

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01-08-2013, 02:03 PM
  #82
Sky04
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double post


Last edited by Sky04: 01-08-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old
01-08-2013, 02:42 PM
  #83
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When Morgan Reilly scored 18 points in 18 games last year, its true you couldnt say he is a 72 point player in the DUB. You could however use those stats to indicate his ability at age 17. Same thing for Hall at age 20, he may not have been a 36 goal scorer but his stats indicate he can be.

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01-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #84
Neatman
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Ok

Career NHL Reg Season Points
Taylor Hall: 95
Tyler Seguin: 89

Glad we could resolve that so easily.
Well played. Cue the excuses.

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01-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I'm not a big fan of the "on pace" arguments either but Hall scored 2 less goals than Seguin in 20 less games and this is over a 61 compared to 81 game stretch, not a small sample size so it's pretty safe to say that Hall was clearly the more efficient goal scorer last season. I don't know what the future holds for these two but thus far in their careers, Hall has been the more efficient goal scorer.
How much Time On Ice did they each get per game?

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01-08-2013, 04:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
How much Time On Ice did they each get per game?
Really? We can't just give Hall the credit he deserves and say he's a much "more efficient" goal scorer than Seguin?

Hall averaged 18:13 a game.
Seguin averaged 16:54 a game

A whole 1:16....or a whopping 1.4 shifts more per game.

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01-08-2013, 05:29 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
How much Time On Ice did they each get per game?
So let me get this straight..... Oiler fans aren't allowed to use the argument of "what if" Hall played as many games as Seguin yet Bruins fans are allowed to use the Hall had more icetime than Seguin so in other words "what if" Seguin had as much icetime as Hall. Interesting.
I think all this on pace stuff is virutally useless because the fact remains that Hall played 20 less games than Seguin and Seguin averaged less icetime than Hall.
The fact is that Hall scored 27 goals in 61 games and Seguin scored 29 goals in 81 games and i'm no math major but it's pretty obvious to see based on those numbers that Hall was the more "efficient" goal scorer last season.

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01-08-2013, 05:32 PM
  #88
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I think they are equally skilled and in a tie I would go with the center as it is easier to build around a centermen but Hall is a hell of a player.

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01-08-2013, 05:32 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
When Morgan Reilly scored 18 points in 18 games last year, its true you couldnt say he is a 72 point player in the DUB. You could however use those stats to indicate his ability at age 17. Same thing for Hall at age 20, he may not have been a 36 goal scorer but his stats indicate he can be.
Except he is reckless and that is required to be the player he is. And thus will always be a Tim Connolly.

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01-08-2013, 05:35 PM
  #90
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I think in the last poll I liked Seguin because I believed that one of these days Taylor Hall would toe-pick and decapitate himself on the door to the penalty box or something. Still think that, so Tyler.

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01-08-2013, 05:37 PM
  #91
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Can we at least wait until they play some more NHL games before we bring this up again?

Also, wouldn't it be a laugh if Hall moved to center permanently? The two highly compared #1 and #2 picks end up moving from center to wing and vice versa.

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01-08-2013, 07:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by jukon View Post
Can we at least wait until they play some more NHL games before we bring this up again?

Also, wouldn't it be a laugh if Hall moved to center permanently? The two highly compared #1 and #2 picks end up moving from center to wing and vice versa.
It could still happen. Hall has played at center a bit in Edmonton and hasn't looked out of place. Personally, I think he looks more dangerous on the wing though. He can use his straight away speed better and create odd man rushes.

Who knows though. Krueger has said he likes the idea of pairs over a trio so maybe someday we see RNH/Yakupov on one line and then Hall/Eberle on the other...with Hall at center.

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01-08-2013, 11:11 PM
  #93
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Except he is reckless and that is required to be the player he is. And thus will always be a Tim Connolly.
Please enlighten me on how Hall was hurt in the past? Fluke (stepped on by a skate blade) and a fluke (falling awkwardly in a fight). His nagging shoulder injury has been from junior, and was the same injury that many pros have. Its a misconception that hes injury prone due to a reckless style. But I am sure you knew that since you watch him all the time.

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01-08-2013, 11:25 PM
  #94
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If Hall can stay relatively healthy its a very close debate and you really cant go wrong with either. However up until this point that hasn't been the case and we need to see if he will be able to play an 82 game season. Additionally if he does need to reign in his aggressiveness style to stay healthy how much does this affect his overall game. Its a cop out but its just to early to tell and I wish we had an 82 game season to see this. But again we'll most likely have a poll in 15 years asking who had the better career and itll be pretty close.

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01-08-2013, 11:40 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by roflstomper View Post
If Hall can stay relatively healthy its a very close debate and you really cant go wrong with either. However up until this point that hasn't been the case and we need to see if he will be able to play an 82 game season. Additionally if he does need to reign in his aggressiveness style to stay healthy how much does this affect his overall game. Its a cop out but its just to early to tell and I wish we had an 82 game season to see this. But again we'll most likely have a poll in 15 years asking who had the better career and itll be pretty close.
I think Hall will always be a guy that is going to get caught with a big hit every once in a while but you can say that about any player.

However, usually he takes his biggest hits when he's in a slump. During his 9 game goalless drought early last season it seemed like there was a new Dman making youtube at his expense every night. Things weren't going right for him so he was trying to do too much on his own.

When he's on his game, he really doesn't put himself in those positions very often. We saw the big hits almost completely disappear as the season went on. Sure there were exceptions like the Sarich hit that ended his season but if you watch the replay, it's clear that he had just lost an edge at the wrong time. That has nothing to do with his style of play.

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01-09-2013, 12:03 AM
  #96
Pekka Rinne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Oh please, you can absolutely not call Taylor Hall a "36 goal scorer" when hes never even gone above 27 in one season. How do you know Hall wouldnt have had a slump to end the season? It happens you know.

Do you also realize how many times you alluded to some variation of "on pace" in your post? Now, there is some merit to citing pace in an argument because its not likely Hall would have gotten 0 goals in the final games, but to use it in this argument is ridiculous. What would have been your opinion if Hall actually played the final games and ended up with 31 goals? Completely possible for a 2nd year player who hasnt played a full NHL season yet. Would he be a "significantly" better scorer than Seguin then as well? Is that two goal difference significant?

Your also basing your argument solely on points (or "on pace" fake points, with Hall). Anyone can see how gifted of a goal scorer Seguin is, its one of his greatest strengths. To suggest Hall is "significantly" better is ridiculous.
Yeah, he could have a terrible slump, saaay 3 goals in the 20 games he missed? And still scored more goals than Seguin.

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01-09-2013, 12:08 AM
  #97
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Except he is reckless and that is required to be the player he is. And thus will always be a Tim Connolly.
ive now seen it all in this thread, from an Oiler fan saying that we are the most knowledgable fan base to "Taylor Hall=Tim Connolly?"

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01-09-2013, 01:18 AM
  #98
Sky04
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Please enlighten me on how Hall was hurt in the past? Fluke (stepped on by a skate blade) and a fluke (falling awkwardly in a fight). His nagging shoulder injury has been from junior, and was the same injury that many pros have. Its a misconception that hes injury prone due to a reckless style. But I am sure you knew that since you watch him all the time.
There's a collage of monterous hits Hall has taken in his short time in the NHL in another thread here. It's not about past injuries, it's about constantly putting himself in vulnerable positions to make a simple play, which is only going to lead to future injuries.

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01-09-2013, 10:57 AM
  #99
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There's a collage of monterous hits Hall has taken in his short time in the NHL in another thread here. It's not about past injuries, it's about constantly putting himself in vulnerable positions to make a simple play, which is only going to lead to future injuries.
Until it does lead to more injuries its an assumption, not fact. Lets let the season play itself out. If Hall gets injured because of a reckless style, I will admit I was wrong. Until then its an opinion with no facts to back it up.

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01-09-2013, 01:45 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Really? We can't just give Hall the credit he deserves and say he's a much "more efficient" goal scorer than Seguin?

Hall averaged 18:13 a game.
Seguin averaged 16:54 a game

A whole 1:16....or a whopping 1.4 shifts more per game.
Yea and who did Seguin play with? oh yea thats Right Bergeron, Lucic, Chara, Horton, Krejci...only personS hall got that was really a help was Eberle and Hopkins....Hemsky has played brutal the last couple season and really isnt a booster to Hall...

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