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Should Brust be Given a Shot?

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:41 PM
  #26
InfinityIggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiFlamesFan View Post
What are the chances Brust gets a shot in camp next season? Never know what could happen in this short season and Karlsson/Irving could both possibly be gone given their respective circumstances.
I have a feeling Ramo might come over in that scenario.

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01-07-2013, 09:50 PM
  #27
Guido Sarducci
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No.

30 players in camp means only 3 goalies. Go with the 3 under contract.

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01-07-2013, 10:25 PM
  #28
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With Karlsson, Brust and Irving looking to play backup, I say we let the best man win. Honestly, how many games will the backup really play in a 50 game schedule. Hell Kipper plays
more than that every year

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01-07-2013, 11:25 PM
  #29
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Feaster has already stated that there will be Kipper, Karl and Irving at camp, that's it.. He said with the PTO stuff with Irving, he is treating him as a player effected by the lockout that basically hasn't played.. I'm sure in their minds he has done more than enough the last couple of years to earn the shot this year.

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01-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #30
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i think irving will end up playing alot just to keep his RFA rights... unless something changed in the new CBA

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01-08-2013, 11:33 PM
  #31
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That would be silly. Not even in an 82 game schedule does Irving get 20 starts. The over/under for starts by Kipper this season should be about 43.5.

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01-08-2013, 11:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
i think irving will end up playing alot just to keep his RFA rights... unless something changed in the new CBA
Does playing a shift or two in a game count as a "game played"?

If so, I could see Irving being in goal for a lot of the Flames PP. That would be amusing.

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01-09-2013, 12:07 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
I have a feeling Ramo might come over in that scenario.
Good point, I completely forgot about Ramo there!

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01-09-2013, 06:16 AM
  #34
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No. Brust and Taylor are strictly AHL caliber players. It would be a bigger waste of a NHL contract than tossing one at Kolanos. As someone else mentioned, these guys have major problems with their games that would see them shelled in the NHL. Focus on guys that have a future and can potentially grow into a NHL player, not on career minor leaguers that pad the win column for the Heat.

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01-09-2013, 10:19 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
No. Brust and Taylor are strictly AHL caliber players. It would be a bigger waste of a NHL contract than tossing one at Kolanos. As someone else mentioned, these guys have major problems with their games that would see them shelled in the NHL. Focus on guys that have a future and can potentially grow into a NHL player, not on career minor leaguers that pad the win column for the Heat.
You know there is such a thing as a NHL tryout contract right?

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01-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #36
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From the sounds of things, camp spots are going to be very limited league-wide due to the reduced time frame. Which will mean very few 'camp tryouts' or even few AHL + juniors players in camp.

I imagine the brass will keep it simple and just leave the backup decision between the two signed keepers in Irving and Karlsson.

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01-09-2013, 10:42 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
From the sounds of things, camp spots are going to be very limited league-wide due to the reduced time frame. Which will mean very few 'camp tryouts' or even few AHL + juniors players in camp.

I imagine the brass will keep it simple and just leave the backup decision between the two signed keepers in Irving and Karlsson.
I can see the reasoning behind that, but both Irving and Karlsson have played very little over the past year. I think we all agree that in a condensed season the back ups will be called upon more, and that the Flames will not have the luxury of waiting for a player to get out of a slump. Brust on the otherhand has played much more, and has shown the most important trait: he can be sharp after not playing for awhile.
Whoever the backup is, I hope someone steps up, grabs the job, and doesn't look back.

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01-09-2013, 10:51 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
From the sounds of things, camp spots are going to be very limited league-wide due to the reduced time frame. Which will mean very few 'camp tryouts' or even few AHL + juniors players in camp.

I imagine the brass will keep it simple and just leave the backup decision between the two signed keepers in Irving and Karlsson.
This is probably very true, much less time to review individual players going into this year.

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01-09-2013, 12:43 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
You know there is such a thing as a NHL tryout contract right?
You know there is this thing called a waste of time, right?

There is a reason these guys have bounced around the minors and other leagues. They don't have the fundamentals to play at the NHL level. These guys aren't even in the Curtis McElhinney class and he isn't worth giving another shot to at this point. Time has passed these guys by. Accept it. I'm sure they have.

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01-09-2013, 12:54 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
You know there is this thing called a waste of time, right?

There is a reason these guys have bounced around the minors and other leagues. They don't have the fundamentals to play at the NHL level. These guys aren't even in the Curtis McElhinney class and he isn't worth giving another shot to at this point. Time has passed these guys by. Accept it. I'm sure they have.
So in other words, no you didn't.

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01-09-2013, 02:56 PM
  #41
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Surprisingly have to agree with CPS. Adding Brust or Taylor and having 4 or 5 goalies in a camp that doesn't even last a week would be a tremendous waste of time. The goalies need to be in net because the season is about to get underway in a hurry, and having 5 guys isn't conducive to that.

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01-09-2013, 03:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Surprisingly have to agree with CPS. Adding Brust or Taylor and having 4 or 5 goalies in a camp that doesn't even last a week would be a tremendous waste of time. The goalies need to be in net because the season is about to get underway in a hurry, and having 5 guys isn't conducive to that.
4 goalies at camp would obviously be stupid, who says Karlsson needs a good look at camp? IMO we already know what we have in him, others will disagree I am sure.

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01-09-2013, 05:38 PM
  #43
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Well, the Flames probably do since Feaster said it's between Irving and Karl. The backup doesn't matter too much since Kiprusoff is going to play almost all of the games. Ramo is slated to come over next year and management seems to have a lot of trust in him. Better to go with Karl or Irving who have some backup experience.

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01-09-2013, 07:13 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury14 View Post
From the sounds of things, camp spots are going to be very limited league-wide due to the reduced time frame. Which will mean very few 'camp tryouts' or even few AHL + juniors players in camp.

I imagine the brass will keep it simple and just leave the backup decision between the two signed keepers in Irving and Karlsson.
Someone forgot to tell the Panthers

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01-10-2013, 11:48 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
You know there is such a thing as a NHL tryout contract right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So in other words, no you didn't.
I didn't think the contract issue was even in question. For the tryout contract to be offered the Flames would first have to nullify the existing contract on either player. Do they, players or team, take that risk? Not a chance. What player is going to cancel a guaranteed contract for a try-out contract? What happens if that player gets hurt in camp? No insurance. No guarantee on the contract. The player is just screwed. Again, I really didn't think this was even a scenario someone would seriously suggest, that they would think through all aspects of such a suggestion. Guess not.

Using your logic, why don't the Flames extend tryout offers to Keith Aucoin and Jeff Taffe? We could use Aucoin's skill and Taffe's size in the middle. They might just beat out an under-performing veteran in the shortened camp and force the new coaching staff to go with that proven quantity in the career minor leaguer! Make sense?

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01-10-2013, 02:09 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I didn't think the contract issue was even in question. For the tryout contract to be offered the Flames would first have to nullify the existing contract on either player. Do they, players or team, take that risk? Not a chance. What player is going to cancel a guaranteed contract for a try-out contract? What happens if that player gets hurt in camp? No insurance. No guarantee on the contract. The player is just screwed. Again, I really didn't think this was even a scenario someone would seriously suggest, that they would think through all aspects of such a suggestion. Guess not.

Using your logic, why don't the Flames extend tryout offers to Keith Aucoin and Jeff Taffe? We could use Aucoin's skill and Taffe's size in the middle. They might just beat out an under-performing veteran in the shortened camp and force the new coaching staff to go with that proven quantity in the career minor leaguer! Make sense?
Feels weird agreeing with you, but I couldn't have said it better myself

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01-10-2013, 02:41 PM
  #47
InfinityIggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I didn't think the contract issue was even in question. For the tryout contract to be offered the Flames would first have to nullify the existing contract on either player. Do they, players or team, take that risk? Not a chance. What player is going to cancel a guaranteed contract for a try-out contract? What happens if that player gets hurt in camp? No insurance. No guarantee on the contract. The player is just screwed. Again, I really didn't think this was even a scenario someone would seriously suggest, that they would think through all aspects of such a suggestion. Guess not.

Using your logic, why don't the Flames extend tryout offers to Keith Aucoin and Jeff Taffe? We could use Aucoin's skill and Taffe's size in the middle. They might just beat out an under-performing veteran in the shortened camp and force the new coaching staff to go with that proven quantity in the career minor leaguer! Make sense?
Then why were you arguing it in the first place?

No, using whatever logic you are imagining I might be using.

To this point Brust has outplayed all his contemporaries in the system, including Irving. Your example includes two middle of the road players, while Brust has excelled at his position. You don't have to agree with me, but making up ******** is just pathetic.

As for it being a risk, that would be his choice to take that risk wouldn't it. Its not like he cant sign an AHL contract with the Heat or any other AHL club after.

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01-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
To this point Brust has outplayed all his contemporaries in the system, including Irving.
Irving hasn't really had much of a chance to play. The restrictions on his contract and uncertainty of the lockout have really prevented the Heat from putting together a rotation to keep Irving in the mix. They likely wanted to wait and save those games until it looked like the lockout was coming to a conclusion, or knowing he was on the farm for the year, before playing him. That has been a terrible position for both the player and the team. The player doesn't get a chance to play, so never finds a groove. The team wants to win so doesn't want to turn to a cold goaltender. It's been just a bad situation for all those involved, except the other two goaltenders.

Quote:
Your example includes two middle of the road players, while Brust has excelled at his position.
Really? The same Barry Brust that was in German league last year? Come on, get serious for a second. Brust has done nothing in his career except bounce around the minors. He's had a hot start, but anyone who watches him will quickly tell you that he's unorthodox and horribly weak on fundamentals, those crazy things demanded by coaches in the NHL. Brust at the NHL level would be a waste of time and games.

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As for it being a risk, that would be his choice to take that risk wouldn't it. Its not like he cant sign an AHL contract with the Heat or any other AHL club after.
They can't sign another contract if they are hurt. That's the point. They would have to release themselves from a guaranteed contract to go to camp without a contract or insurance. They get hurt, they are done. No one touches them with a 10 foot pole because of their injury. This may be news to you, but you can't get a contract registered with any league without the player passing a physical. An injury is going to make passing that physical pretty tough.

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