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Bobby Lu Part II(All Luongo Talk goes here) [Post 643: Luongo to Philly?]

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Old
01-09-2013, 08:12 PM
  #901
Krishna
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I thought contracts in the AHL over $105,000, counted against the NHL cap in this new cba.
Or did the nhl drop that proposal from the final cba?
It's Cap hit - (salary min + 375k)

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01-09-2013, 08:12 PM
  #902
vokiel
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
HF reaction for whenever Luongo gets traded is going to be hilarious. Everyone will be disappointed in the return he gets, like almost every other player. Vancouver does not hold all that much leverage, why would a team trade such valuable assets for someone who can be bought out this summer or next?
Vancouver does not hold any leverage whatsoever. They're basically at the mercy of the offers. The only other choices are buying Roberto out or keeping him and buyout someone else when they need to.

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01-09-2013, 08:13 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
He's got a better offence right now in Vancouver
Nope. Philly outscored Vancouver last season.

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01-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Vancouver does not hold any leverage whatsoever. They're basically at the mercy of the offers. The only other choices are buying Roberto out or keeping him and buyout someone else when they need to.
Yes. A team with two great goalies has no leverage while teams with poor goaltending hold all the cards. Only on HF!

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01-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Briere and Voracek for Luongo
VAN cannot handle that cap space.

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01-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #906
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Adrian Dater gets some things right but he has also been wrong about a lot of things. Here's his take on this:

Quote:
Keep in mind: this may not work. But the Flyers' thought process as of Wed. night about their goaltending situation is as follows: they trade for Roberto Luongo, then:

1. Secretly hope that Ilya Bryzgalov retires to the KHL right away.

2. But with his huge contract making that about a 1% chance of happening...

3. Just barely sneak Luongo's $5.3 million cap hit under the cap level of $70.2 million for this season, and go with a goalie tandem for this short season of Luongo-Bryzgalov. This assumes that Chris Pronger's nearly $5 million cap hit comes off the books this year, because of LTI relief. (Long Term Injury).

4. If they don't win a Stanley Cup with that tandem they...

5. Buy out one of the two contractually. That leaves the other standing as the No. 1 guy, and then they can worry more about getting under the $64.3 million cap for next year.

Bottom line: don't be fooled into believing that the Canucks have a lot of leverage in any trade for Luongo. He's an older goalie who has the same general level of non-success in the playoffs as Bryzgalov. But the fact is: the Flyers now deeply regret signing Breezer to the deal they did. They will publicly proclaim their faith in him still. But their eyes didn't deceive them: he was brutal in the playoffs, and much of last year's regular season. They are tired of his Rodney Dangerfield act in many ways.
They are very curious what it will take to get Bobby Loo on their roster, and what it will take to make it work.

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01-09-2013, 08:15 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
The future obviously isn't proven, but you can look at past trends and the overwhelming evidence is goaltenders begin to decline in their mid 30s. Simple as that. Of course he can be an elite goalie at 40 years old, but that's highly unlikely and damn near impossible.
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
10 year contract = glorified rental. Lol.

Proven to go downhill soon? Tell that to Brodeur, Thomas, Kiprusoff, Vokoun, Nabokov, etc.
Luongo may not be elite in his late 30s, but he'll certainly be solid. I think he'll be elite for another 3 years, good for the next 3-4, then retire.

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01-09-2013, 08:15 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Again, two sides. If Toronto has no other options then they need to acquire Luongo.
Nonis' job may or may not be on the line this season but as a GM that has according to TO fans been running things for 4 years he will be on a very short leash if they miss the playoffs again and run with Scrivens/Reimer. I agree with you that Gillis' job isn't on the line. He can afford to be patient and he will be unless he gets whathe feels is a fair price.
"No other options" isn't reality. Right now, the option is a 24-year old James Reimer who has a career .911 sv% and .541 points percentage in 71 games as his team's #1 goaltender, backed up by Ben Scrivens/Jussi Rynnas. Is it a risky option? Absolutely, but with great risk comes great reward. Reimer could be the team's #1 goaltender for the next decade, and grow with our young team as opposed to against it.

There's really no reason to believe Nonis is on a short leash. By hiring him without the interim tag, the organization is basically giving him a vote of confidence that will last at least a year or two.

Gillis' job may not be on the line, but totally botching / mishandling the Luongo situation like you're proposing Gillis do is something that puts GM's jobs on the line. What Vancouver needs to do with Luongo is incredibly obvious, and if Gillis fails to do so out of principle (really the only reason), it could very well cost him his job when he's stuck trying to unload him, or asking management to pay a $33m buyout.

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01-09-2013, 08:16 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Bottom line: don't be fooled into believing that the Canucks have a lot of leverage in any trade for Luongo. He's an older goalie who has the same general level of non-success in the playoffs as Bryzgalov. But the fact is: the Flyers now deeply regret signing Breezer to the deal they did. They will publicly proclaim their faith in him still. But their eyes didn't deceive them: he was brutal in the playoffs, and much of last year's regular season. They are tired of his Rodney Dangerfield act in many ways.
They are very curious what it will take to get Bobby Loo on their roster, and what it will take to make it work. 6 minutes ago
I agree with this. Dater said this also.

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01-09-2013, 08:16 PM
  #910
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Why the hell people even suggest Luongo would be bought out is beyond me

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01-09-2013, 08:16 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Luongo may not be elite in his late 30s, but he'll certainly be solid. I think he'll be elite for another 3 years, good for the next 3-4, then retire.
Paying 5+ mil for a "good" goalie until he decides to stop playing isn't great optics imo.

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01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Adrian Dater gets some things right but he has also been wrong about a lot of things. Here's his take on this:
"He's an older goalie who has the same general level of non-success in the playoffs as Bryzgalov"

After watching the Philly/Pitts series I can't agree with that. Luongo has had his troubles but he's never played as bad as Bryz did in that series. Not even close.

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01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Yes. A team with two great goalies has no leverage while teams with poor goaltending hold all the cards. Only on HF!
Teams with poor goaltending aren't forced to trade with Vancouver.

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01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Paying 5+ mil for a "good" goalie until he decides to stop playing isn't great optics imo.
A lot better than Bryzgalov at 5.7.

And the Flyers are contending now, so Luongo at a discounted cap hit for 3 years is quite valuable.

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01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Teams with poor goaltending aren't forced to trade with Vancouver.
Ok, then who will they trade for then. And what will the price be.
Are you guys offering up Price for Kadri, Bozak and a second?

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01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Well... in the absence of Tallon/Nonis/Gillis being on this board...fan offers and expertise is all we have to go off.

If Tallon wants Luongo, then presumably, so do their fans. Of course, nobody comes to the table with their best offer, but if it's worse than another team's offer than it'll have to increase, or decide that they're no longer interested.

It's a simple parallel with what goes on in reality.

If Florida and Toronto are the only two teams interested, and Florida's top offer is Scottie Upshall + Marcel Goc, then the Leafs certainly wouldn't need to offer Kadri, Bozak and a pick. They could beat that package by simply offering Connolly (retaining 50% salary) and a guy like Carter Ashton.

This board is all about fan offers and proposals. I'd just like to see some to get a baseline for just how strong the demand is for Luongo. Right now, all I see are Canuck fans making completely baseless proposals and hoping that repeatedly asking for unrealistic packages will eventually get them one.
You see whatever fits your narrative while ignoring everything else. Flyers fans have agreed to Briere in this thread, yet you claim no one's offered anything better than Kadri, Connolly + 3rd. Confirmation bias at its finest.

I do appreciate your (unintentional?) humour however. Calling hfboards trade discussions "a simple parallel with what goes on in reality" really had me in stitches.

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01-09-2013, 08:19 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
49 isn't a down year. It's a down slope, he's not going to hit 68 points again or that ppg again. I like Briere, but he's done. Awesome performance vs the Devils though, nice offside goal vs Pitt too.
How many people said that about Whitney, Doan, Iginla, St. Louis? Every year St. Louis had been throwing out the "he's declining" and only now does it slightly show. Some people say the Sedins are done. Do I see Briere as a PPG player? No but he could put up 55-60 points again. Or 30ish in a condensed season. Not to mention we need scoring in the playoffs. Briere accomplishes that.

At the end of the day, Briere is a better player than the packages Toronto leafs have thrown around.

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01-09-2013, 08:19 PM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Teams with poor goaltending aren't forced to trade with Vancouver.
No one is forced to trade with anyone.. that logic makes no sense.

Poor goaltending standing pat also makes no sense.. unless you're the oilers.. then you get rewarded with 3 consecutive 1st overall picks

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01-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
A lot better than Bryzgalov at 5.7.

And the Flyers are contending now, so Luongo at a discounted cap hit for 3 years is quite valuable.
Bryz is obviously overpaid, but I don't think he's as bad as he showed. The Flyers don't need elite goaltending to win, they need a better defensive core I think. With Laviolette's run and gun style no goalie will post stellar numbers in that system short of a top 5 goalie. I don't think Luongo is top 10 anymore even. And he'll quickly decline from here

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01-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
"He's an older goalie who has the same general level of non-success in the playoffs as Bryzgalov"

After watching the Philly/Pitts series I can't agree with that. Luongo has had his troubles but he's never played as bad as Bryz did in that series. Not even close.
There was that one blowout against CHI. But I agree on your sentiment.

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01-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by binop7 View Post
Would Philly buyout Bryz?
If they get Luongo, yeah.

I don't see any trade to Philly happening though

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01-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
"He's an older goalie who has the same general level of non-success in the playoffs as Bryzgalov"

After watching the Philly/Pitts series I can't agree with that. Luongo has had his troubles but he's never played as bad as Bryz did in that series. Not even close.
I agree that Luongo is better that Bryzgalov but Luongo has had some terrible playoff games/series. Who knows what his numbers would have looked like last year if he wasn't benched.

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01-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by quat View Post
Guys like you are great.

I hate Luongo, he sucks ... but I'm not a Luongo hater.

Every top goalie playing in the NHL has struggled at times in big games, but only when Luongo does it, it counts.
guys like you are great. the ones who like to make stuff up because they can't handle people with opinions other than their own. i didn't say Luongo "sucks" or that i hate him. i said he's average. get over it.

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01-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #924
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How about:

Philly:
Luongo + Raymond

Van:
Voracek + Bourdon/Gustaffson (potential Ballard replacement; haven't watch the Flyers enough to know their value though)

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01-09-2013, 08:21 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
You see whatever fits your narrative while ignoring everything else. Flyers fans have agreed to Briere in this thread, yet you claim no one's offered anything better than Kadri, Connolly + 3rd. Confirmation bias at its finest.

I do appreciate your (unintentional?) humour however. Calling hfboards trade discussions "a simple parallel with what goes on in reality" really had me in stitches.
If Flyer fans are prepared to offer Briere, and he's prepared to waive his NMC, then please, trade him there.... and feel free to buy out Briere when you've gotta come down to $64.3m for next season.

If you're going to place primary value on getting the best player you can for this year, then we won't beat that.

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