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Old
01-06-2013, 05:12 PM
  #326
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Hope this guy sucks at predictions
He does suck at predictions. Look at his predicted standing prior to the 2011-12 season (1st column):
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...94626/32532800
Last year he picked the Jackets to make playoffs and Joey to win the Calder Trophy. He's probably mad at Columbus.

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01-06-2013, 11:39 PM
  #327
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... sadly, he's right.

In a condensed schedule, the workload on the goaltenders will be much more difficult than in a typical season. The teams that will have success are the ones with two solid netminders (Vancouver, LA, NYR to name three). What we can lean our hats on is that this should be the hardest working CBJ team, probably at least since year 1. The difference between now and then is that we have some skill to go with the work ethic. Anything can happen, but don't get your hopes up too high. We're building for the future.
Are we sure the schedule is really going to be all that condensed? From January 19 last year, they played 37 games (with an all star break) and the season ended a week earlier than what I think the original 12-13 schedule intended. depending on when the last game is, it may not really be all that different from a normal schedule.

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01-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #328
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I just realized something.

I'm going to have a hell of a time with the magic number thread this year.

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Old
01-08-2013, 03:17 PM
  #329
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Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Have been at rinkand have not scrolled down last couple of hours of tweets, so sorry if this is repeat, but re KHL: told that last Friday...

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
...last Friday, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Datsyuk were preparing press release to announce they intended to remain in KHL regardless...

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Told that quartet hd been promised immense amount of money (guarantee fromn Putin) to stay in KHL and not return to NHL...

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Told that NHLPA was able to talk players out of issuing statement...Ovechkin has returned, Datsyuk has pledged to honor last 2 yrs with Det

https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie


Wow.. if true.. the amount of Russians might decrease dramatically in NHL over the next few years.. Malkin and Datsyuk have their contract up after 13-14 season.

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01-08-2013, 07:35 PM
  #330
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01-09-2013, 12:37 PM
  #331
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Pretty shocking. Mackenzie is tweeting that the Maple Leafs have fired GM Brian Burke. Others are tweeting that it is confirmed. Something is behind this since he was somewhat involved in CBA discussions.

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01-09-2013, 12:39 PM
  #332
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/...e_brian_burke/


Later Burkey. Wow Leafs are just trying to shoot themselves in the foot.

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01-09-2013, 12:40 PM
  #333
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Damn Kev, beat me by just a few minutes haha.

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01-09-2013, 12:42 PM
  #334
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Makes the main boards eminently more readable. No more half assed defenses of the Kessel trade

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01-09-2013, 12:50 PM
  #335
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Makes the main boards eminently more readable. No more half assed defenses of the Kessel trade
It'll be like what happened with one of my friends (Indians fan) back when Albert Belle was active. He'd defend everything that Belle did, then as soon as he left, did a complete 180 and brought up everything that he'd previously defended.

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01-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #336
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Burke out

When does the "Howson for Toronto GM" campaign start?

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01-09-2013, 01:08 PM
  #337
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Makes the main boards eminently more readable. No more half assed defenses of the Kessel trade
I know that Dougie Hamilton is already apparently next to God to hear some talk, but the reality is that the Kessel trade isn't as lopsided as some would like to pretend it was considering Kessel was a point/game player last year.

With that out of the way, this is a performance business. Burke failed to perform and he did so in the biggest hockey market in the world. He's been in his post one year less than Howson. Has a payroll less than Howson's. Came closer to the playoffs last year than Howson.

So, if it is just and right that Burke be fired, it would seem it is more than just that Howson suffer the same fate. But, we do not live in a just world.

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01-09-2013, 01:19 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I know that Dougie Hamilton is already apparently next to God to hear some talk, but the reality is that the Kessel trade isn't as lopsided as some would like to pretend it was considering Kessel was a point/game player last year.

With that out of the way, this is a performance business. Burke failed to perform and he did so in the biggest hockey market in the world. He's been in his post one year less than Howson. Has a payroll less than Howson's. Came closer to the playoffs last year than Howson.

So, if it is just and right that Burke be fired, it would seem it is more than just that Howson suffer the same fate. But, we do not live in a just world.
...and he was also provided with limitless resources, and the ability to say, "Hey, UFA, didn't you grow up a Leafs fan? Don't you want to be closer to family so they can see you play? Don't you want to play in front of sellout crowds, and never have to buy a meal or drink anywhere you go in the city?"

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01-09-2013, 01:44 PM
  #339
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[QUOTE=CapnCornelius;57339929]I know that Dougie Hamilton is already apparently next to God to hear some talk, but the reality is that the Kessel trade isn't as lopsided as some would like to pretend it was considering Kessel was a point/game player last year.

With that out of the way, this is a performance business. Burke failed to perform and he did so in the biggest hockey market in the world. He's been in his post one year less than Howson. Has a payroll less than Howson's. Came closer to the playoffs last year than Howson.

So, if it is just and right that Burke be fired, it would seem it is more than just that Howson suffer the same fate. But, we do not live in a just world.[/QUOTE

Lucky for Howson he lives and works in Columbus.

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01-09-2013, 02:02 PM
  #340
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...and he was also provided with limitless resources, and the ability to say, "Hey, UFA, didn't you grow up a Leafs fan? Don't you want to be closer to family so they can see you play? Don't you want to play in front of sellout crowds, and never have to buy a meal or drink anywhere you go in the city?"
Based on last year's payroll, you really going to argue that Howson hasn't been given essentially limitless resources within the bounds of the CBA. At this point Howson almost has as many guys helping him do his job as Burke did his.

As for the argument of "closer to family," the NHL talent pool is more spread out than it was in 1960. You think Russian players, kids from Saskatoon or kids from the US give two hoots about Toronto?

I think the Leafs brand is more tarnished than people lead on. Kids who grew up in the late 80's and 90's aren't lining up because of some great memories of the Leafs. These aren't kids raised in the '60's when the Leafs were one of the top teams in the league.

Also, I think the Leafs actually have a huge built-in disadvantage. The city is so hungry for a winner that a guy like Kessel who puts up 82 points is still hated by the fans. That atmosphere is something a lot of guys don't want. Yes, if the team were ever competently run being a part of a winner would yield huge rewards. But as long as the team is mediocre or worse, don't expect free meals or a beer.

So, let's not pretend that Brian Burke's job was any more easy than Howson's.

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01-09-2013, 02:06 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Based on last year's payroll, you really going to argue that Howson hasn't been given essentially limitless resources within the bounds of the CBA. At this point Howson almost has as many guys helping him do his job as Burke did his.

As for the argument of "closer to family," the NHL talent pool is more spread out than it was in 1960. You think Russian players, kids from Saskatoon or kids from the US give two hoots about Toronto?

I think the Leafs brand is more tarnished than people lead on. Kids who grew up in the late 80's and 90's aren't lining up because of some great memories of the Leafs. These aren't kids raised in the '60's when the Leafs were one of the top teams in the league.

Also, I think the Leafs actually have a huge built-in disadvantage. The city is so hungry for a winner that a guy like Kessel who puts up 82 points is still hated by the fans. That atmosphere is something a lot of guys don't want. Yes, if the team were ever competently run being a part of a winner would yield huge rewards. But as long as the team is mediocre or worse, don't expect free meals or a beer.

So, let's not pretend that Brian Burke's job was any more easy than Howson's.
Should we compare who came into their job with more actual NHL talent on the roster? How about the farm system? How about drafting since they took over?

The answers, of course, are Burke, Burke, and a decided advantage to Howson. Even if we pare the drafting down to just 2009-present for the sake of equalizing, Howson still easily trumps Burke.

As for the rest of your post, I still think that there's a greater draw to the Leafs than you're giving credit for. Kids who grew up in Sweden still grew up with the legends of Borje Salming and then Mats Sundin, and they've certainly had respectable other European players as well.

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01-09-2013, 02:44 PM
  #342
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But, we do not live in a just world.
Capn dropping truth bombs!

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01-09-2013, 02:55 PM
  #343
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lol, Burke canned before Howson... Not ever going to bother debating their records.

The question will be, what does Davidson think of Howson? Priest isn't there to protect his dumb ass anymore.

I laughed at Howson's mannerisms on the insider things on Bluejackets TV. Wright cracked me up a bit, he was a walking/talking cliche.

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Old
01-09-2013, 06:47 PM
  #344
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Brian Burke sacked..

ha ha ha ha... been mad @ that bugger ever since he talked us out of Frank Bushman...

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01-09-2013, 07:59 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Should we compare who came into their job with more actual NHL talent on the roster? How about the farm system? How about drafting since they took over?

The answers, of course, are Burke, Burke, and a decided advantage to Howson. Even if we pare the drafting down to just 2009-present for the sake of equalizing, Howson still easily trumps Burke.

As for the rest of your post, I still think that there's a greater draw to the Leafs than you're giving credit for. Kids who grew up in Sweden still grew up with the legends of Borje Salming and then Mats Sundin, and they've certainly had respectable other European players as well.
NHL talent. Sure, Burke had more "talent". It was also underperforming on horrible contract terms in a capped league with many no trade clauses where the underperforming players refused to waive--so what could have been an "asset" wasn't because Burke couldn't get market value for guys. Imagine having 4-5 Rick Nash-type contracts on Day 1 as a GM and that is exactly the situation Burke spent 2-3 years trying to solve.

Farm system? What great NHL talent was down on the farm when Burke arrived, exactly? The 5 years of draft preceding Burke's arrival were pretty poor. The cupboard was bare. Gunarsson, Stalberg and James Reimer were the top of the heap of their talent.

As for drafting, I'm not sure Howson wins quite as easily as you seem to think. The only guys to play at least one "full" season in the NHL are Johansen, Moore and Jake Voracek. Verdict is still out on Johansen and Moore. Voracek is a good but not great pick, particularly with a top 10 pick. For Burke, verdict is out on Kadri and Luke Schenn has been a decent defenseman--whether he gets to the next level still being somewhat up in the air. The further along we've gotten in Howson's reign the more it has become clear that some prospects simply aren't going to live up to the hopes people had for them. Consider that one of our best prospects is Atkinson, a 6th round pick (the same year that Scotty thought it wise to select Mr. Filatov) and it is unclear whether he'll ultimately be able to handle the rigors of the NHL on a daily basis over 82 games. If Howson "wins" on this count, it is more because Burke flubbed so badly in Toronto. Which is interesting when you consider that this is the same GM who managed to selected both Sedins, Bobby Ryan, Jake Gardiner, Ryan Kesler, Kevin Bieksa, Chris Pronger, and...RJ Umberger. Heck, Burke has done a better job drafting from the CCHA over his career than Howson, and Howson is in the same city as a CCHA team.

There is nothing particularly noteworthy about Howson's drafting. Yet you continue to act as if there is.

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01-09-2013, 09:58 PM
  #346
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All right, I'll bite.

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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
NHL talent. Sure, Burke had more "talent". It was also underperforming on horrible contract terms in a capped league with many no trade clauses where the underperforming players refused to waive--so what could have been an "asset" wasn't because Burke couldn't get market value for guys. Imagine having 4-5 Rick Nash-type contracts on Day 1 as a GM and that is exactly the situation Burke spent 2-3 years trying to solve.
Not even close. For one thing, the highest-paid player was Pavel Kubina ($5 mil per year). Second, only a small number of players had NTCs of any type.

Pavel Kubina - $5 million per year - NTC was inactive if Leafs missed playoffs in 2008-09, lasting from the draft through August 15.
Tomas Kaberle - $4.25 million per year - NTC was inactive if Leafs missed playoffs in 2008-09, lasting from the draft through August 15.
Vesa Toskala - $4 million per year (first of a two-year contract) - no NTC
Jason Blake - $4 million per year (second of a five-year deal) - no NTC
Martin Gerber - $3.7 million per year (last of a three-year deal) - no NTC
Jeff Finger - $3.5 million per year (first of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Niklas Hagman - $3 million per year (first of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Mike Van Ryn - $2.9 million per year (third of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Nikolai Antropov - $2.05 million per year (second of a two-year deal) - no NTC

That's two players who had NTCs, and those were fairly limited in scope. The conditions to suspend the NTC (missing the playoffs) was met, meaning that both Kaberle and Kubina could be traded. And Kubina was...basically for Garnet Exelby, who hadn't done anything in five years and was a third-pairing defenseman on the best day of his life.

Quote:
Farm system? What great NHL talent was down on the farm when Burke arrived, exactly? The 5 years of draft preceding Burke's arrival were pretty poor. The cupboard was bare. Gunarsson, Stalberg and James Reimer were the top of the heap of their talent.
Young (under-25) talent on the NHL roster when Burke took over:
- Matt Stajan
- Mikhail Grabovski
- Lee Stempniak
- Luke Schenn
- Ian White
- John Mitchell
- Anton Stralman
- Jiri Tlusty
- Christian Hanson (who'd been a hotly-pursued college UFA)

Further down in the system were also Nikolai Kulemin, Justin Pogge, Matt Frattin, and Jimmy Hayes, all of whom had high value up through mid-2010.

Want to compare that to what Columbus had in June 2007?

Quote:
As for drafting, I'm not sure Howson wins quite as easily as you seem to think. The only guys to play at least one "full" season in the NHL are Johansen, Moore and Jake Voracek. Verdict is still out on Johansen and Moore. Voracek is a good but not great pick, particularly with a top 10 pick. For Burke, verdict is out on Kadri and Luke Schenn has been a decent defenseman--whether he gets to the next level still being somewhat up in the air. The further along we've gotten in Howson's reign the more it has become clear that some prospects simply aren't going to live up to the hopes people had for them. Consider that one of our best prospects is Atkinson, a 6th round pick (the same year that Scotty thought it wise to select Mr. Filatov) and it is unclear whether he'll ultimately be able to handle the rigors of the NHL on a daily basis over 82 games.
Since Burke took over drafting, Toronto has had the following players see NHL ice for even a single game:
- Nazem Kadri

Since 2009, Columbus has had:
- John Moore
- David Savard
- Ryan Johansen
- Dalton Prout

From 2008 alone, Columbus had 5/9 in the NHL. One (Steven Delisle) has been traded, and two of the other three (Sean Collins and Drew Olson) are still in the system. Now, I can't hold 2008 against Burke; he wasn't around.

Quote:
If Howson "wins" on this count, it is more because Burke flubbed so badly in Toronto. Which is interesting when you consider that this is the same GM who managed to selected both Sedins, Bobby Ryan, Jake Gardiner, Ryan Kesler, Kevin Bieksa, Chris Pronger, and...RJ Umberger. Heck, Burke has done a better job drafting from the CCHA over his career than Howson, and Howson is in the same city as a CCHA team.
And Doug MacLean was a pretty good coach in Florida; it made no difference in Columbus. Heck, even Scotty Bowman had his Buffalo...so too does Burke have his Toronto.

Quote:
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about Howson's drafting. Yet you continue to act as if there is.
Time will tell, but I'd have the CBJ drafting since 2007 safely in the top-10 around the league. And that's without the benefit of being able to pick someone like a Tavares or Doughty or Stamkos.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:10 PM
  #347
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Abridging the thread rules for a minute… Priest is history replaced by Davidson… (check).

Howson will be replaced after this season… (check).

It worked.....

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01-09-2013, 11:32 PM
  #348
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Howson will be replaced after this season… (check).
Magic 8 ball at work? I'm not convinced he's going anywhere.

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01-10-2013, 12:26 AM
  #349
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Burke's job was a ton easier than Howson's and he manged to be ten times worse at it.

Burke spent huge free agent dollars, and spent it terribly...all of his UFA's were busts:

Mike Komisarek
Tim Connally
Colby Armstrong
Colton Orr
Jonas Gustavsson
Tyler Bozak
Francous Beauchamin

Hard to argue that Howson didn't get more out of guys like Kristian Huselius Vinnie Prospal, and James Wisniewski. That's not to say Howson hasn't had his busts, but even Mike Commodore at least gave one good PLAYOFF season for the CBJ after Howson signed him before going bust.

The players Burke traded for, with the exception of Jake Gardiner and JvR, have been either terrible or horribly overpaid or overrated:

overpaid/overated category
Phaneuf
Liles (who also got a horrific extension)
Lupul

terrible at hockey category
Lomardi
Franson
Steckel
McClement

Other guys he traded for, like Giguere and Versteeg, the Leafs got nothing out of and both went on to prove they are still solid players (Giggy in Colorado and Versteeg in Florida)

As far as prospects and young talent, can't say for sure either way - but I think a consensus of hockey people would prefer the likes of Murray, Moore, Atkinson, Johanson, Savard, Jenner, to the dreck in the Leafs system.

Voracek didn't quite develop into the player Howson thought. Howson turned him into Jeff Carter. That didn't work out....Howson turned him into Jack Johnson. Howson has at least been able to cover his tracks a bit, Burke hasn't come close.

Although both Burke and Howson are equal when it comes to hiring awful coaches (Arniel and Wilson)

(And this is all without even mentioning the abomination that was the Kessel deal or the awful Grabo contract)


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01-10-2013, 01:34 AM
  #350
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Had Burke signed more guys from Ontario he would still have a job.....

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