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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Greatest world junior team ever?

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:30 AM
  #76
doakacola*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daver View Post
You would be more credible if you did not generalize a whole country.

This debate should start and end with what happened on the ice but if you want to play the "what if" game....

The 04 US team was your A team. There were no players that were not eligible to play because of commitments to their club team. The fact that a few players who developed into better NHL players is irrelevant. If you want to get into the "what if" game, there are plenty of other versions of Team Canada that would have been better than the 04 US team based simply on the fact that players who did not play were "too good" for the team, not because they were borderline like the four you mentioned were missing from the 04 team.
Canadians do it relentlessly when they lose. You just can't accept there are other
"what if " circumstances. In fact you lost to the US team that had at least 5-6
2nd teamers.

So lets hear your 2004 versions.

Its laughable that you say the difference between Buff and Likens or Pavelski, Callahan, and Backes over Moore, Wiener, Dowell or Fritsch were borderline. The difference was not borderline. USA Hockey picked the wrong players, period.

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:36 AM
  #77
Hero
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Ladd - Crosby - Perry
Carter - Getzlaf - MacArthur
Bergeron - Richards - Stewart
Dixon - Dawes - Fraser

Seabrook - Weber
Barker - Phaneuf
Coburn - Belle
Syvret

Unreal.

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:00 AM
  #78
Darth Handsome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Ladd - Crosby - Perry
Carter - Getzlaf - MacArthur
Bergeron - Richards - Stewart
Dixon - Dawes - Fraser

Seabrook - Weber
Barker - Phaneuf
Coburn - Belle
Syvret

Unreal.
My memeory isn't the greatest, but I think Ladd played with Carter & Getzlaf, Bergeron centred Crosby & Perry.

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:04 AM
  #79
Gobias Industries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Handsome View Post
My memeory isn't the greatest, but I think Ladd played with Carter & Getzlaf, Bergeron centred Crosby & Perry.
Indeed, check the avatar for Crosby and Bergeron. They lit it up together.

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:19 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Handsome View Post
My memeory isn't the greatest, but I think Ladd played with Carter & Getzlaf, Bergeron centred Crosby & Perry.
That post you quoted my friend was an updated version of the team, showing that it would still be an incredible team if assembled again today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
Canadians do it relentlessly when they lose. You just can't accept there are other
"what if " circumstances. In fact you lost to the US team that had at least 5-6
2nd teamers.

So lets hear your 2004 versions.

Its laughable that you say the difference between Buff and Likens or Pavelski, Callahan, and Backes over Moore, Wiener, Dowell or Fritsch were borderline. The difference was not borderline. USA Hockey picked the wrong players, period.
What are you even trying to say? The tournament was played in 2005, not 2012. It's a pointless exercise to complain about players who were selected in 2005 based on what they developed into. I'm sure Dave Bolland looks better on paper than Stephen Dixon, as does Travis Zajac with Jeremy Colliton while Mike Green and Brent Burns look nicer than Danny Syvret and Shawn Belle. Big whoop.

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #81
86Habs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Ladd - Crosby - Perry
Carter - Getzlaf - MacArthur
Bergeron - Richards - Stewart
Dixon - Dawes - Fraser

Seabrook - Weber
Barker - Phaneuf
Coburn - Belle
Syvret

Unreal.
I recall the lineup being more like this:

Crosby - Bergeron - Perry
Ladd - Getzlaf - Carter
Dawes - Richards - Stewart
Fraser - MacArthur - Dixon/Colliton

Phaneuf - Weber
Coburn - Seabrook
Syvret - Belle
Barker

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:24 AM
  #82
daver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
Canadians do it relentlessly when they lose. You just can't accept there are other
"what if " circumstances. In fact you lost to the US team that had at least 5-6
2nd teamers.

So lets hear your 2004 versions.

Its laughable that you say the difference between Buff and Likens or Pavelski, Callahan, and Backes over Moore, Wiener, Dowell or Fritsch were borderline. The difference was not borderline. USA Hockey picked the wrong players, period.
I'm not the one throwing out "what if" and hypothetical scenarios. I am pointing out the difference between players who didn't play because they were deemed at the time not good enough versus players who didn't play because they were in the NHL.

The fact that the 04 US team beat the 04 version of Team Canada 2005 is meaningless. A year's worth of development and experience at that age is significant.

Why did USA hockey pick the "wrong" players? Were they part of the development program?

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Old
01-09-2013, 11:34 AM
  #83
Bigleaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Handsome View Post
My memeory isn't the greatest, but I think Ladd played with Carter & Getzlaf, Bergeron centred Crosby & Perry.
Carter, Getzlaf and Ladd were +35 during the tournament and were not on the ice for a single goal against the whole tournament.

Bergeron, Getzlaf and Carter were 1st, 2nd and 4th in scoring.

Phaneuf, Weber, Coburn and Belle were +34 for the tournament.

Canada outscored their opposition 41-7.

This team was DOMINANT!

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Old
01-09-2013, 06:43 PM
  #84
fly4apuckguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
You can 't have it both ways. When the US or Russia wins Canadians always play the what if we had card. When I do it in this thread by assembling a team (essentially contains the top 9 2010 US Olympic Team forwards) you start saying you cant use the what if arguments. Sorry but we both know now that
US team I put together would be competitive in a 7 game series with Team Canada.
You make it sound as if this is a uniquely Canadian trait. LOL

No offence, but you haven't been around here long enough to make that kind of assumption.

Everyone on here does that. For national teams, for club teams, you name it.

That is what makes the message boards so fun. A bunch of armchair coaches who get to spout off about how lousy the people in charge are, and how we could obviously do a better job if it wasn't for our kid's soccer game or the community tard sale meeting we had to go to that somehow made us miss getting chosen as GM.

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Old
01-09-2013, 07:10 PM
  #85
Uncle Rotter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
Canadians do it relentlessly when they lose. You just can't accept there are other
"what if " circumstances. In fact you lost to the US team that had at least 5-6
2nd teamers.

So lets hear your 2004 versions.
A Canadian team without Rick Nash, Eric Staal, Patrice Bergeron, Nathan Horton, Brent Burns, Pierre-Marc Bouchard

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Old
01-09-2013, 07:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
Kazakhstan beat Thailand 52-1 in 2007 Asian Games, so no, it's not the most one sided ever.

What's more interesting for me is that the greatest team ever still had 8 players (more than 1/3) who didn't make it into the NHL.
How do you score 52 goals in 60 minutes and not be embarassed for running up the score? Jeez that's almost a goal a minute. 2004 US team deserves an HM.

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Old
01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #87
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Here are some interesting stats. Career NHL point totals by year of birth & nationality:

1982-Top 20: Canada 15, USA 1
1983-Top 20: Canada 10, USA 3
1984-Top 20: Canada 3, USA 7
1985-Top 20: Canada 13, USA 4 (11 of the first 14 are Canadian)
1986-Top 20: Canada 9, USA 4

There are more Canadians born in 1985 who have reached 200 career points (13) than in every year from 1977 to 1984 with the exception of 1980 (14).

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Old
01-09-2013, 09:23 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Here are some interesting stats. Career NHL point totals by year of birth & nationality:

1982-Top 20: Canada 15, USA 1
1983-Top 20: Canada 10, USA 3
1984-Top 20: Canada 3, USA 7
1985-Top 20: Canada 13, USA 4 (11 of the first 14 are Canadian)
1986-Top 20: Canada 9, USA 4

There are more Canadians born in 1985 who have reached 200 career points (13) than in every year from 1977 to 1984 with the exception of 1980 (14).
What is Top 20 denoting here?

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
What is Top 20 denoting here?
Top 20 in Career NHL Points for players born in that year. For example, here are those born in 1985:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/friv....cgi?year=1985

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Old
01-09-2013, 10:37 PM
  #90
invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Top 20 in Career NHL Points for players born in that year. For example, here are those born in 1985:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/friv....cgi?year=1985
Interesting. Thanks. The numbers may be too low for non-Canadian countries to be of statistical significance, but is it easy to see what percentage of players by nationality were taken each year? For example, if 60% of draftees in a given year are Canadian, are they under-performing career scoring-wise if only 55% of the list for top-20 scorers ends up being Canadian? Or, would it need a cut-off since high-impact forwards generally are drafted closer to the top? Idk. I suck at stats

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Old
01-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #91
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I guess it would be one of those Soviet teams in the late 70s or 80s.

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Old
01-24-2013, 01:02 AM
  #92
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I know they're still young but that 2009 roster they had...damn.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:02 PM
  #93
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Why is this even a debate. 2005 Canada was the most dominate team period. Destroyed every opponent didn't have any slip ups no if this player made or if they won that game. No they ran through the tournament men against boys. delete this thread

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:58 PM
  #94
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Why is this even a debate. 2005 Canada was the most dominate team period. Destroyed every opponent didn't have any slip ups no if this player made or if they won that game. No they ran through the tournament men against boys. delete this thread
100%.

Look at the lineup. Crosby, Perry, Getzlaf, Carter, Richards, Phaneuf, Weber, Seabrook, Coburn, Ladd, Bergeron, etc.

Absolutely incredible lineup.

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Old
02-05-2013, 05:37 AM
  #95
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No doubt the 2005 Team Canada was the Strongest team ever. If you take a look at the list of players eligible for 2015, I think it comes close to matching the 2005 team, but won't get the chance as there won't be a lockout, but look at the potential players born in 1995 and later...

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Old
02-10-2013, 04:56 PM
  #96
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Actually, team Canada 1988 was probably the best ever. Here are their biggest names:

Sakic,
Recchi,
Linden,
Desjardins,
Rob Brown,
Graves,
Fleury (Theo, not MAF)

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