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01-09-2013, 07:44 PM
  #726
le_sean
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Gauthier inherited a weak team from Bob Gainey. He did overachieve for two years with an 8th place and 6th place finish due to Jacques Martin's coaching, but the failure to resign Roman Hamrlik is what did the team in last year. The defense was absolutely horrible, and the team fell to 12th place. It then decided to tank and finished in 15th (not 12th) place after trading Cammalleri, Kostitsyn, and Gill.
I hate to break it to you, but the team would have still sucked with Hamrlik. The problems are much deeper than one defenceman.

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01-09-2013, 07:47 PM
  #727
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I hate to break it to you, but the team would have still sucked with Hamrlik. The problems are much deeper than one defenceman.
Roman Hamrlik was our no. 1 defenseman in the 2010-2011 season. We had both him and Subban, following his departure, we only had Subban.

We went from being a bubble team to being a 12th place team. With Hamrlik, we would have still been a bubble team.

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01-09-2013, 07:52 PM
  #728
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In a nutshell, the Leafs suck because they regularly traded picks and youth for overpriced marginal talent. If the rumors are true and Burke was fired because he didn't want to trade picks and youth for Luongo, then, well, the problem's clearly at the top.

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01-09-2013, 07:58 PM
  #729
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At that point there was plenty of time to turn things around and the hope was kick starting the power play would do that. It was a failed attempt to replicate the Wiz trade.

After that the wheels fell off when Martin was fired, as soon as they made it clear Cunneyworth was who they were going with for the rest of the season it was clear management was already test driving the tank.
The Kaberle trade happened 1 week before the Martin firing though. They won the first 2 games after the trade, lost a close one to the Flyers and then the firing happened. I refuse to believe that 1 Flyers loss suddenly put Gauthier into tank mode.

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01-09-2013, 08:02 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by akratique View Post
In a nutshell, the Leafs suck because they regularly traded picks and youth for overpriced marginal talent. If the rumors are true and Burke was fired because he didn't want to trade picks and youth for Luongo, then, well, the problem's clearly at the top.
If that's the case we should see Luongo traded to Toronto soon correct? I'm thinking you'll see the opposite.. no trades done. Meaning the problem was Burke to begin with.

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01-09-2013, 08:02 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Roman Hamrlik was our no. 1 defenseman in the 2010-2011 season. We had both him and Subban, following his departure, we only had Subban.

We went from being a bubble team to being a 12th place team. With Hamrlik, we would have still been a bubble team.
I don't think you watched Hamrlik play last season. He was a bottom pairing defenceman.

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01-09-2013, 08:07 PM
  #732
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I don't think you watched Hamrlik play last season. He was a bottom pairing defenceman.
Irrelevant to my argument.

I'm saying that the loss of Hamrlik is what hurt the team.

If we were going to lose him anyway to the aging process, that still counts as a loss.

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01-09-2013, 08:07 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The Kaberle trade happened 1 week before the Martin firing though. They won the first 2 games after the trade, lost a close one to the Flyers and then the firing happened. I refuse to believe that 1 Flyers loss suddenly put Gauthier into tank mode.
Well that 1 Flyers loss made Gauthier lose his mind apparently considering what would happen for the rest of the season, so why not?

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01-09-2013, 08:09 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Irrelevant to my argument.

I'm saying that the loss of Hamrlik is what hurt the team.

If we were going to lose him anyway to the aging process, that still counts as a loss.
No, our losing shootouts and surrending leads/losing them in the final minutes is what caused us to finish 12th. Hamrlik, or not, he's not good enough to change that. Especially with our terrible he was in Washington from what I saw.

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01-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #735
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No, our losing shootouts and surrending leads/losing them in the final minutes is what caused us to finish 12th. Hamrlik, or not, he's not good enough to change that. Especially with our terrible he was in Washington from what I saw.
Hamrlik had a bad season last year but really picked it up in the playoffs. I disagree that he would have saved the Habs but he'd have looked better in Montreal than he did Washington.

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01-09-2013, 08:15 PM
  #736
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It's simple to me: The Habs missed the 2010-11 version of Hamrlik, who was a legit #2-#3 D.

He did not play at that level this year and most likely will never reach that level again, so cutting ties with him was most likely the right call. Still, what he gave us in 2010-11 was not replaced.

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01-09-2013, 08:23 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
It's simple to me: The Habs missed the 2010-11 version of Hamrlik, who was a legit #2-#3 D.

He did not play at that level this year and most likely will never reach that level again, so cutting ties with him was most likely the right call. Still, what he gave us in 2010-11 was not replaced.
I totally agree but our defensive still sucks and there's no legit number 2 that we can sign off the FA. Hence we gotta tank again because we are clearly not a contender this year.

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01-09-2013, 08:26 PM
  #738
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Even the out-of-town thread has to turn into and bash Gainey/Gauthier/ex players...

Regarding Burke, I never liked him as a GM, but loved his passion and honesty.

He is the antithesis of Gauthier...emotional rather than analytical. But I respect his principles - he calls it the way he sees it, and refused to participate in offer sheet, which I guess he considered to be sneaky or underhanded.

And best of all, if I'm not mistaken, the Leafs have over $20M in cap space after this season. That will help whomever the GM is at the time (I'm not convinced it will be Nonis) a great position for free agency.

Having said this, I wouldn't ever want to see him I'm Montreal.

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01-09-2013, 10:02 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Irrelevant to my argument.

I'm saying that the loss of Hamrlik is what hurt the team.

If we were going to lose him anyway to the aging process, that still counts as a loss.
Well then you need to clarify. What you meant to say is we didn't replace Hamrlik with a viable option.

Anyways, I still don't think adding a defenceman of quality would have made much of a difference. The team depended on a 5'6 second year player for offence and the original 1st line centre had to play with grinders.

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01-09-2013, 10:04 PM
  #740
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Double post


Last edited by groovejuice: 01-09-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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01-09-2013, 10:07 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Even the out-of-rotten thread has to turn into and bash Gainey/Gauthier/ex players...

Regarding Burke, I never liked him as a GM, but loved his passion and honesty.

He is the antithesis of Gauthier...emotional rather than analytical. But I respect his principles - he calls it the way he sees it, and refused to participate in offer sheet, which I guess he considered to be sneaky or underhanded.

And best of all, if I'm not mistaken, the Leafs have over $20M in cap space after this season. That will help whomever the GM is at the time (I'm not convinced it will be Nonis) a great position for free agency.

Having said this, I wouldn't ever want to see him I'm Montreal.
He wasn't against offer sheets. He was just upset someone he considered his friend didn't even tell him he was going to. He found the news by fax and didn't find it professional.

In regards to the offer sheets themselves he was upset at inflating contracts. Funny enough, now players have inflated 2nd deals after coming out of ELCs. He acted like a major baby about it, but he wasn't wrong.

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01-09-2013, 10:15 PM
  #742
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Gauthier ???? What ????
OneShaprMarble is Gauthier's biggest fan. Sometimes I think he's related to him. Gauthier's a terrible GM. I was disgusted when Boivin's "high and low" search produced him.

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01-09-2013, 10:18 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He wasn't against offer sheets. He was just upset someone he considered his friend didn't even tell him he was going to. He found the news by fax and didn't find it professional.

In regards to the offer sheets themselves he was upset at inflating contracts. Funny enough, now players have inflated 2nd deals after coming out of ELCs. He acted like a major baby about it, but he wasn't wrong.
I never heard that story. But regardless, he said many times that he didn't like them and would never offer one himself.

Let's face it, the man is a hockey dinosaur, one geological epoch ahead of Don Cherry.

But he is a character, and has character and I find myself liking him as a man. Just not so much as a GM.

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01-09-2013, 10:19 PM
  #744
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If that's the case we should see Luongo traded to Toronto soon correct? I'm thinking you'll see the opposite.. no trades done. Meaning the problem was Burke to begin with.
John Shannon is pretty confident that a deal will get done by the time the CBA is ratified by the players on Sunday or Monday. We'll see what happens. As a Leaf fan I want Luongo but not if it involves Gardiner.

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01-09-2013, 10:20 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
It's simple to me: The Habs missed the 2010-11 version of Hamrlik, who was a legit #2-#3 D.

He did not play at that level this year and most likely will never reach that level again, so cutting ties with him was most likely the right call. Still, what he gave us in 2010-11 was not replaced.
Markov was supposed to do that but didn't play until the end of the season.

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01-09-2013, 10:23 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
OneShaprMarble is Gauthier's biggest fan. Sometimes I think he's related to him. Gauthier's a terrible GM. I was disgusted when Boivin's "high and low" search produced him.
As I understand it, Boivin had almost zero involvement with anything hockey related and only did what Gainey told him to do. I watched the PC of Boivin's hiring and came away with the distinct impression that Gainey had called the shot here.

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01-09-2013, 10:59 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
As I understand it, Boivin had almost zero involvement with anything hockey related and only did what Gainey told him to do. I watched the PC of Boivin's hiring and came away with the distinct impression that Gainey had called the shot here.
Regardless, the exhaustive search produced Gauthier. I . I also when Martin was hired and when Therien was hired....although, I think Therien isn't that bad of a hire.

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01-09-2013, 11:15 PM
  #748
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Now I expect Toronto to be a lottery team this year.

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01-09-2013, 11:26 PM
  #749
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413187

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Philadelphia Flyers are interested in acquiring the services of the veteran goaltender.

Duthie tweeted that the Flyers have inquired about the Canucks goalie, and are in a position where they could buy out current netminder Ilya Bryzgalov in June.
Holmgren is trigger-happy

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01-09-2013, 11:28 PM
  #750
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I said right move, wrong time. Hence, I agree they should have rebuilt...

They traded valuable assets and got Kessel, a 35-40goal first line winger. We traded valuable assets and got Scott Gomez. At least they walked out with a consolation price... We got vomited on.

That's the kind of trade that can vault a good team into contender status, Brian Burke greatly over estimated what he had back in 2009 and that was his fatal mistake. Just about all of his other moves we're ok-to-great, would you agree?

How many homeruns did Gainey hit? Balej for Kovalev and Gorges+1st for Rivet are the only two good ones, compared to a couple REAL stinkers... Niinimaa for Ribeiro and Gomez for Mcdonaugh/Higgins stand out. I'd even go as far as to say trading our first in 2008 was almost as bad for us as Toronto trading theirs was, and this is BARELY ever mentioned here. The team had a banner year, and was considered a contender but in reality it largely overachieved and instead of drafting a quality player (rumor is, John Carlson was Timmins' guy) we got 1 year of Alex Tanguay. It's not the end of the world, but we essentially lost yet another valuable asset for sweet **** all.

Gauthier had an admirable trading reputation going until he acquired Kaberle and Bourque. His trading history is very... Bland.

Burke got Phaneuf (Top 4 D), Lupul (Top 6 fwd), and Gardiner (Top 4 D, maybe Top 2D) for left over pieces.

At least Burke had the gonads to pull off trades, and aside from one... He did pretty good, IMO.
I would hate to see Cammalleri in the uniform of le Canadien when they open the season. He HAD to go, although the circumstances of his departure were bizarre. I liked Gauthier's collecting all those second rounders and I especially liked seeing the Habs in a position to draft Galchenyuk. But NO MORE BOTTOM FINISHES! I couldn't stand it.

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