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01-09-2013, 06:54 PM
  #951
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Bagwell and Thomas are basically the same player, by the way.
Right, that's why I'm comparing them.

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01-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #952
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It doesn't change the fact that the guys played there a certain number of games. Nor should you discount the defensive feats of guys like Keith Hernandez for their position.
But guys like that aren't in anybody's top 10 for the position anyways.

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01-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #953
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But guys like that aren't in anybody's top 10 for the position anyways.
He's very arguable.

I'm speaking of guys who played 75% of their games there.

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01-09-2013, 06:56 PM
  #954
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Right, that's why I'm comparing them.
I know, but every time I argue top firstbasemen with Sox fans, there's always someone who thinks Thomas is vastly superior.

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01-09-2013, 07:14 PM
  #955
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Bagwell and Thomas are basically the same player, by the way, so if you're talking lists that include both, you can't put one substantially higher than the other.
Except Thomas has higher numbers in most stats and he won back to back MVP awards and a batting title

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01-09-2013, 07:16 PM
  #956
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Not firstbasemen.

Eddie Murray? He's overrated. Ended his career with an .836 OPS and was pretty much a replacement level player for close to half of his career.

Gehrig, Foxx and Pujols are pretty definite, in my opinion. Mize and Greenberg are arguable.
Eddie Murray also didn't play in the steroid era

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01-09-2013, 07:17 PM
  #957
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Except Thomas has higher numbers in most stats and he won back to back MVP awards and a batting title
He's marginally better at the plate and Bagwell has 200 steals.

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01-09-2013, 07:26 PM
  #958
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He's marginally better at the plate and Bagwell has 200 steals.
He was also caught 80 times

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01-09-2013, 08:11 PM
  #959
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I'm speaking of all time. Maddux and Clemens are both in my top 3.
Walter Johnson?

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01-09-2013, 08:12 PM
  #960
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I don't see anyone from this ballot where I think they deserve to get in or in thirty years will say "Wow, that guy was really good and worthy of the hall", in my opinion.
Then you didn't watch much baseball. Bonds was the best player since Ted Williams.

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01-09-2013, 08:12 PM
  #961
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Walter Johnson?
He's within the top 5. I have Koufax 2nd.

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01-09-2013, 08:15 PM
  #962
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Agree to disagree. Clemens is behind Feller on my list.

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01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #963
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Agree to disagree. Clemens is behind Feller on my list.
Yeesh

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01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
  #964
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Then you didn't watch much baseball. Bonds was the best player since Ted Williams.
I was saying they aren't worthy due to PEDs.

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01-09-2013, 08:19 PM
  #965
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I'd probably have

Maddux
Koufax
Clemens
Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson
Warren Spahn
Tom Seaver
Pedro Martinez
Pete Alexander
Lefty Grove

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01-09-2013, 08:20 PM
  #966
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What pisses me off about Bonds is that he didn't neee PEDs to get into the HOF.

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01-09-2013, 08:27 PM
  #967
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No Gibson? My list is heavy on old timers to be fair

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01-09-2013, 08:35 PM
  #968
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No Gibson? My list is heavy on old timers to be fair
He's a bit overrated. Still great, but a bit overrated.

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01-09-2013, 08:41 PM
  #969
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He's a bit overrated. Still great, but a bit overrated.
There's a lot of pitchers I would consider overrated, but Gibson is not one.

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01-09-2013, 08:49 PM
  #970
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There's a lot of pitchers I would consider overrated, but Gibson is not one.
He's marginally better than Juan Marichal, who I also don't consider a top 10 pitcher.

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01-09-2013, 09:05 PM
  #971
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I don't see anyone from this ballot where I think they deserve to get in or in thirty years will say "Wow, that guy was really good and worthy of the hall", in my opinion.
uh.... are you serious? Bonds is widely considered to be one of the five best players of all time and Clemens was one of the best pitchers as well. Take steroids out of the equation and get rid of their boom years during the time when they should've declined due to age, and they would've been easy first ballot hall of famers.

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01-09-2013, 10:25 PM
  #972
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uh.... are you serious? Bonds is widely considered to be one of the five best players of all time and Clemens was one of the best pitchers as well. Take steroids out of the equation and get rid of their boom years during the time when they should've declined due to age, and they would've been easy first ballot hall of famers.
Not Clemens. He had 150 wins after he started juicing

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01-10-2013, 12:26 AM
  #973
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Not Clemens. He had 150 wins after he started juicing
After 1999, he had 247.

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01-10-2013, 12:52 AM
  #974
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True, but he still had 200+ wins before he likely started juicing, even had a number of absolutely dominating years. Plus, it's really hard for me to really get offended at steroid usage given how widespread it was and for how long MLB did absolutely nothing about it.

And disappointing loss for Illinois.

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01-10-2013, 01:08 AM
  #975
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Quote:
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He's a bit overrated. Still great, but a bit overrated.
He changed the game of baseball. He gets points for that.

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