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Paul Martin Trade or Buyout? (if there's a season)

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01-09-2013, 03:01 PM
  #376
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Holmgren will go nuts with the two new cap rules, bank on it.
My point is why shouldn't Shero.

If Feaster went rebuild in March, what would you give to have Cammallerri, Bouwmeester, and Sarich this year and then all of next at a combined 7.3M cap hit.

I ran the numbers. You do that deal, and you've got 7 defensemen under contract next year, two goalies. You'd have 4.3M in cap space and need 5 or 6 forwards. BUT, if you traded Paul Martin, that wouldn't really be a problem, right?

And, that's really my other point. Cammallerri and Bouwmeester are worth next to nothing at their current hits of 6M and 6.6M. Sarich is a bit much at 2M. BUT, at half the hit, they're three of the biggest deadline commodities, no?

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01-09-2013, 03:03 PM
  #377
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And, that's really my other point. Cammallerri and Bouwmeester are worth next to nothing at their current hits of 6M and 6.6M. Sarich is a bit much at 2M. BUT, at half the hit, they're three of the biggest deadline commodities, no?
I wouldn't go quite that far, but it certainly adds a new dynamic to trades going forward.

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Old
01-09-2013, 03:04 PM
  #378
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We have to forget the notion that Calgary will rebuild. They won't. They are in a constant tug-o-war with the Oilers, and they do the exact opposite of what Edmonton does. Calgary is trying to make the playoffs right away. They won't sell. The mandate is to win now.

Besides, it's not like they are completely devoid of prospects now. Gaudreau and Baertschi look like studs. Wotherspoon looks pretty good. Sieloff, too. They also have several decent goalie prospects.

Iginla's not going anywhere. He's a Flame for life. J-Bo? Sure, they'd move him but not just for futures. IMO.
Fine. I'll give you a different question: What is Ryan Malone worth at the deadline with a 3M cap hit?

I'm not saying TB will trade him, but, if they're out, Malone at 4.5M is worth next to nothing. BUT, if they ate 1/3 of the cap hit (in terms of salary 1/3 would mean about 500K for the rest of the year and then 750K the next 2 years).

Now, 2M is a lot of money. BUT, is 2M worth more than what more they'd get for Malone at an effective 3M cap hit.

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01-09-2013, 03:04 PM
  #379
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I wouldn't go quite that far, but it certainly adds a new dynamic to trades going forward.
Well, that may have been that rare instance where I indulge in hyperbole.

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01-09-2013, 03:06 PM
  #380
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I don't see how anything can think Philly will buy out Bryz. Regardless of his performance, that's still a 18-20m cheque he'd have to be willing to cut. Yes they have more money than most, but spending 2-5m to say good riddance is a lot different than spending 15-20m to do the same.
They'd cut that check if they had a goalie.

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01-09-2013, 03:42 PM
  #381
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No we oughtn't. Geno is not Kovalchuk.

Problem is not Geno It's the Russian Mafia that is the KHL

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01-09-2013, 03:58 PM
  #382
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No we oughtn't. Geno is not Kovalchuk.

Problem is not Geno It's the Russian Mafia that is the KHL
What?

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01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
What?

The worries I have is not Geno it is the Russian Mafia that IS the KHL

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01-09-2013, 06:22 PM
  #384
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On the Bryz topic. I doubt Philadelphia would buy him out, who'd be their goaltender after him? Michael Leighton? Lol.

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01-09-2013, 06:39 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No we oughtn't. Geno is not Kovalchuk.

Problem is not Geno It's the Russian Mafia that is the KHL
Malkin's coming back. There isn't a thing to worry about.

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01-10-2013, 07:33 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No we oughtn't. Geno is not Kovalchuk.

Problem is not Geno It's the Russian Mafia that is the KHL
I know how corrupt Russia is and all (more than 99.9% here know, certainly), but this is pretty much insane.

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01-10-2013, 07:54 AM
  #387
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Anyone else put off by Martin's relentless mea culpas, admitting how bad he sucked last year? I'd rather hear some defensiveness, some attitude. Hell I'd rather hear some excuses.

Because when I hear "I know I sucked" I think, well if that's how it is then maybe you just suck. Why should I believe you won't suck again? Anybody know what I mean?

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01-10-2013, 08:04 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
I know how corrupt Russia is and all (more than 99.9% here know, certainly), but this is pretty much insane.
So you're saying you don't think Malkin is going to come back with traces of polonium in his system?

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01-10-2013, 08:11 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
Anyone else put off by Martin's relentless mea culpas, admitting how bad he sucked last year? I'd rather hear some defensiveness, some attitude. Hell I'd rather hear some excuses.

Because when I hear "I know I sucked" I think, well if that's how it is then maybe you just suck. Why should I believe you won't suck again? Anybody know what I mean?
i dont really think there is a good answer other than showing it on the ice. If he gives a reason or excuse, people will bash him all the same.

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01-10-2013, 08:32 AM
  #390
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So you're saying you don't think Malkin is going to come back with traces of polonium in his system?
Please, that was all Putin. If Geno had a great rack and an ass that won't quit, then it'd be the mob's turf.

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01-10-2013, 09:07 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
My point is why shouldn't Shero.

If Feaster went rebuild in March, what would you give to have Cammallerri, Bouwmeester, and Sarich this year and then all of next at a combined 7.3M cap hit.

I ran the numbers. You do that deal, and you've got 7 defensemen under contract next year, two goalies. You'd have 4.3M in cap space and need 5 or 6 forwards. BUT, if you traded Paul Martin, that wouldn't really be a problem, right?
I wasn't commenting one way or another on Shero, just verifying that I think you're right about Holmgren. He WILL do something with these new rules. He's already inquired about Luongo and TSN speculating they'll buy Bryzgo out this summer (apparently you can only buy out in the summer?).

I could see him trading for Luongo and Bouwmeester easily given the subpar efforts of Ilya and Pronger's career ending concussion.

As for your deal, I am not a JBo fan (mostly because of his contract and because I think he's overrated) but having those three guys at $7M+ hit would be a steal. Even I can't deny that. The real question though is what do you have to give up to get all three of those guys? We don't have the goods, period.

You're not getting those three guys for: "Martin, 1st, Despres, Tandgradi"...

We'd have to give up a lot of depth in our prospect pool and some legit roster players (plural). If I were Shero and thought those guys were available, I would try to get Cammalleri and Sarich and skip the premium trade cost of JBo. Let them ship Jbo somewhere else; we move Martin, Kennedy, Tango, 2nd, 4th. Gives them a roster player on both sides, low cap if we eat some of Martin's deal, and two more draft picks in a good draft year to stock up.


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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No we oughtn't. Geno is not Kovalchuk.

Problem is not Geno It's the Russian Mafia that is the KHL

Put the big bag of crazy down, step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. GENO WILL BE FINE, and right here in Pittsburgh. For a long time.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 01-10-2013 at 09:14 AM.
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01-10-2013, 12:27 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I wasn't commenting one way or another on Shero, just verifying that I think you're right about Holmgren. He WILL do something with these new rules. He's already inquired about Luongo and TSN speculating they'll buy Bryzgo out this summer (apparently you can only buy out in the summer?).

I could see him trading for Luongo and Bouwmeester easily given the subpar efforts of Ilya and Pronger's career ending concussion.

As for your deal, I am not a JBo fan (mostly because of his contract and because I think he's overrated) but having those three guys at $7M+ hit would be a steal. Even I can't deny that. The real question though is what do you have to give up to get all three of those guys? We don't have the goods, period.

You're not getting those three guys for: "Martin, 1st, Despres, Tandgradi"...

We'd have to give up a lot of depth in our prospect pool and some legit roster players (plural). If I were Shero and thought those guys were available, I would try to get Cammalleri and Sarich and skip the premium trade cost of JBo. Let them ship Jbo somewhere else; we move Martin, Kennedy, Tango, 2nd, 4th. Gives them a roster player on both sides, low cap if we eat some of Martin's deal, and two more draft picks in a good draft year to stock up.





Put the big bag of crazy down, step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. GENO WILL BE FINE, and right here in Pittsburgh. For a long time.
Agree about your thoughts on targets. I guess I was thinking, when I first saw this clause, about how a team like Calgary could do an accelerate rebuild if, later this year, they move Iginla (which means start the rebuild). They don't have a lot beyond that unless they'd eat significant parts of cap hits, which they can afford to do. Then, they've got significant assets.

Put another way, we were discussing Malone in another thread. I don't know if you take him for the 4.5M cap hit because of the 2013-2014 cap. BUT, if TB would eat 20% of that (given the front loaded deal, it means they pay out like 1.2M in actual cash over three years) and get the cap hit to 3.6M, then I'd give up assets to get Malone.

I mean, if Malone's cap hit were 3.6M, then what is he worth? Is he worth Kennedy and Dumoulin? Kennedy and Harrington?

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01-10-2013, 12:30 PM
  #393
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I don't want Malone. We need to move forward with our top six, not backwards.

If only a certain type of player can play in the top six with this coach, then change the coach and be done with it.

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01-10-2013, 12:34 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't want Malone. We need to move forward with our top six, not backwards.

If only a certain type of player can play in the top six with this coach, then change the coach and be done with it.
You wouldn't want Malone at a reduced cap hit?

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01-10-2013, 12:42 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
You wouldn't want Malone at a reduced cap hit?
I'd take Malone at a reduced cap hit, the only real deterrent with him is his cap hit. However I'd be hesitant to throw the entire barn at Tampa to make the trade.
Correct me if i'm wrong, I'm not really sure what Malone's value to Tampa is but I've gotten the impression he's a key piece in their offense, ergo making him "expensive"

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01-10-2013, 12:49 PM
  #396
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I'd take Malone at a reduced cap hit, the only real deterrent with him is his cap hit. However I'd be hesitant to throw the entire barn at Tampa to make the trade.
Correct me if i'm wrong, I'm not really sure what Malone's value to Tampa is but I've gotten the impression he's a key piece in their offense, ergo making him "expensive"
Well, sure, I wouldn't give the barn. Are TK and Dumoulin (or even Harrington) considered part of the barn when what you'd get would be no question a winger for Geno and Neal for the next three years at an acceptable cap hit?

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01-10-2013, 12:57 PM
  #397
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I'm having a hard time accepting the idea of trading Dumo / Harrington, some of our more higher upside prospects for anybody. However, there is a log-jam coming up and Tampa would be all over the idea of getting some real solid d-men in their system.

I do fancy the idea of Malone coming back to Pitts. From a clinical point of view, it makes sense. We have prospects, they need prospects. They have a good strong forward that works with Geno, we need a good strong forward that works with Geno.



It makes sense, I gotta say it.

Is he however the best option avaliable? His game is going to start to decline soon enough.

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01-10-2013, 01:19 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't want Malone. We need to move forward with our top six, not backwards.

If only a certain type of player can play in the top six with this coach, then change the coach and be done with it.
Gotta play devils advocate here..

We haven't had a guy that could play in front of the net on the PP since Guerin left in 2009... oddly enough, we haven't advanced past the 2nd round in the post-season since then.

Whether you want to admit it or not, having a guy who can play in front of the net is a key ingredient to a successful team.

Plain and simple: the Penguins need a guy who can play in front of the net and aggravate the opposing team's goalie. We haven't had a guy like that since Guerin/Malone. When you have someone disrupting things in front of the net, it screens the goalie and opens up space for our playmakers.

Remember the playoff series against Tampa? 1 for 35.

It's time to change things up and bringing in Malone would be a breath of fresh air.

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01-10-2013, 01:29 PM
  #399
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Gotta play devils advocate here..

We haven't had a guy that could play in front of the net on the PP since Guerin left in 2009... oddly enough, we haven't advanced past the 2nd round in the post-season since then.

Whether you want to admit it or not, having a guy who can play in front of the net is a key ingredient to a successful team.

Plain and simple: the Penguins need a guy who can play in front of the net and aggravate the opposing team's goalie. We haven't had a guy like that since Guerin/Malone. When you have someone disrupting things in front of the net, it screens the goalie and opens up space for our playmakers.

Remember the playoff series against Tampa? 1 for 35.

It's time to change things up and bringing in Malone would be a breath of fresh air.
And who was in the front? Tangradi. So why would we push our cap limit if we have a guy who can do that?

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01-10-2013, 01:37 PM
  #400
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And who was in the front? Tangradi. So why would we push our cap limit if we have a guy who can do that?
Whether Tangardi is ready or not remains to be seen... every year folks talk about Tangradi being ready and it every year it's a colossal letdown.

Not to mention - his production has slipped at WBS compared to last year, which is somewhat disconcerting.

I think Tangradi could be eventually groomed into that type of role, but I have serious doubts about him stepping into that position right now.

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