HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Will Kessel re-sign in TO (post Burke firing)?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-10-2013, 11:15 AM
  #76
WreckItRask
Registered User
 
WreckItRask's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Leafs will move him before his NTC/NMC kicks in this summer.
This is what I think. Kessel is a notoriously streaky player, and if he starts fast (like he has the tendency to do), he could stay hot for the better part of the season. His goal scoring drought (without doing any research) always seems to happen in that game 50-70 stretch. If he lights it up this year, then there'll be a market for him even with his contract up after next year.

WreckItRask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:17 AM
  #77
Lebda Snipes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maple Leaf Gardens
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
That's very debateable. The benchmark that you should compare your players to is what the SC Champions have had in the past, not the league average.

Sure, Grabovski might be better than what a lot of teams have in the #2 slot. But is he better than M. Richards (LA), Krejci (Boston), Sharp (Chicago), Malkin (Pittsburgh), Zetterberg (Detroit), Getzlaf (Anaheim), or Brind'Amour (Carolina)?? Those are the players who were playing 2nd line C on their respective Championship teams since the last lockout. He's significantly behind the majority of them, and only somewhat comparable to the ones on the lower end, but still ultimately not as good.

He's very much a below average 2nd line C when compared to what we SHOULD be building towards, SC Contenders. Not just slightly better than the league average.
Now i agree that those players lister are indeed better than Grabo, and i would take any of them on my 2nd line in a heartbeat over Grabs. But if a player is putting up 30+ goals (as he did 2 seasons ago) i wouldnt care about the name on the back of the Jersey. 30+ goals from a secondary scoring player is more than adequate to be champions. My example is Mike Richards, 18g in 74 games last season, Even if you add his 4g in the playoffs, its still nothing special. My point is production, if Grabo gets back to his previous numbers, he can run with the big boys, and for 5.5 mil he would be worth every penny.

Lebda Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:19 AM
  #78
Yossarian54
Registered User
 
Yossarian54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
That's very debateable. The benchmark that you should compare your players to is what the SC Champions have had in the past, not the league average.

Sure, Grabovski might be better than what a lot of teams have in the #2 slot. But is he better than M. Richards (LA), Krejci (Boston), Sharp (Chicago), Malkin (Pittsburgh), Zetterberg (Detroit), Getzlaf (Anaheim), or Brind'Amour (Carolina)?? Those are the players who were playing 2nd line C on their respective Championship teams since the last lockout. He's significantly behind the majority of them, and only somewhat comparable to the ones on the lower end, but still ultimately not as good.

He's very much a below average 2nd line C when compared to what we SHOULD be building towards, SC Contenders. Not just slightly better than the league average.
Huh, i'm not a leafs fan, but I think a lot of you guys are severely underrating Grabovski. He's practically the only forward on the leafs that consistently makes those playing with him better (http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=corsi). Even Kessel doesn't have the same dramatic effect that Grabovski does.

For comparison, as I am a Canucks fan, Kesler's contract when signed was 8.4% of cap. Grabovski's will be 8.5% under the new ~64M cap. I think Kesler is the better player, but not by much at all.

He is absolutely your number 1 centreman at the moment, and were he to be your #2 C, you would be a pretty damn good team.

Yossarian54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:20 AM
  #79
Raging Bull
Registered User
 
Raging Bull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hamilton, ONT
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
If he gets traded this year or next, it is further proof how delusional Burke was.

I do hope he re-signs and if he doesn't show any indication I want Nonis to shop him this deadline, and not next. I think he'll garner more with an extra year remaining on the contract.
The would be absolute ****ing trash to get middle of the first round picks and prospects for him now, which is all any contending team will trade at the deadline. If he is traded out of Toronto, it needs to be a hockey deal for a similar player. They aren't getting nothing out of him with everything they've invested.

Raging Bull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:24 AM
  #80
Lebda Snipes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maple Leaf Gardens
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
Huh, i'm not a leafs fan, but I think a lot of you guys are severely underrating Grabovski. He's practically the only forward on the leafs that consistently makes those playing with him better (http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=corsi). Even Kessel doesn't have the same dramatic effect that Grabovski does.

For comparison, as I am a Canucks fan, Kesler's contract when signed was 8.4% of cap. Grabovski's will be 8.5% under the new ~64M cap. I think Kesler is the better player, but not by much at all.

He is absolutely your number 1 centreman at the moment, and were he to be your #2 C, you would be a pretty damn good team.
Thank You, i very much agree. Watching Grabo every game last year makes you appreciate the little things he does. Hes a player that plays the dirty parts of the ice (front of the net/corners) Great hockey IQ and solid defensive game. Well rounded player that deserves top six money and minutes.

Lebda Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #81
Chips*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
I have a terrible feeling that if the Leafs don't trade him, he'll take off to Minnesota. It makes sense that he'd choose to play there, give three factors. One-smaller market, quieter media. Two-He/his family are from Minnesota. Three-They're going to be a very respectable team with the acquisitions of Parise and Suter. The addition of Kessel would surely guarantee a playoff berth.

Chips* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
  #82
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post

He is absolutely your number 1 centreman at the moment, and were he to be your #2 C, you would be a pretty damn good team.
I'm not saying he's not our best centre. Or that compared to the league average he's not a good #2.

I just hear too many people say he's a "very good second line centre". But the real benchmark in these types of comparisons SHOULD be SC Champions.

It's like the debates for #1 Defenceman. Some people consider any D who is top 30 in the league to be a #1 D. Personally I would say an average #1 D is the average out of the top D from SC Champion teams. Aka the average out of Doughty, Chara, Keith, Gonchar, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, etc.

Because if you're comparing yourself to the average from SC Champions, if a player in any position is below the average for recent SC winners, then that player is actually a negative when considering a battle for the SC, even if theyre better then the league average.

At least that's how I assess players/team building. SC Champions should be the benchmark, otherwise what you're aiming for might be good enough for playoffs, but not necessarily to win it all.

Grabo can provide some good secondary scoring and is pretty competent two-ways.. but not good enough to even play on the PK, one of the worst PKs in the league mind you. It's more that he just doesn't regularly cough the puck up and back-checks. Admirable qualities and definitely good things, but it's not like he's a defensive machine or at all close to Selke calibre. ~55 points from your 2nd C who doesn't play on the PK isn't anything to write home about.

416Leafer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:52 AM
  #83
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Murica
Country: United States
Posts: 19,928
vCash: 500
Phil Kessel continues to be one of the more misunderstood and under-appreciated players in the NHL.

Rabid Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #84
Lebda Snipes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maple Leaf Gardens
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I'm not saying he's not our best centre. Or that compared to the league average he's not a good #2.

I just hear too many people say he's a "very good second line centre". But the real benchmark in these types of comparisons SHOULD be SC Champions.

It's like the debates for #1 Defenceman. Some people consider any D who is top 30 in the league to be a #1 D. Personally I would say an average #1 D is the average out of the top D from SC Champion teams. Aka the average out of Doughty, Chara, Keith, Gonchar, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, etc.

Because if you're comparing yourself to the average from SC Champions, if a player in any position is below the average for recent SC winners, then that player is actually a negative when considering a battle for the SC, even if theyre better then the league average.

At least that's how I assess players/team building. SC Champions should be the benchmark, otherwise what you're aiming for might be good enough for playoffs, but not necessarily to win it all.

Grabo can provide some good secondary scoring and is pretty competent two-ways.. but not good enough to even play on the PK, one of the worst PKs in the league mind you. It's more that he just doesn't regularly cough the puck up and back-checks. Admirable qualities and definitely good things, but it's not like he's a defensive machine or at all close to Selke calibre. ~55 points from your 2nd C who doesn't play on the PK isn't anything to write home about.
Agreed he had lack luster season last year, after coming off a steller one the season before. But the skill is there, and his overall play was solid.

And he is a player that i would like to see on the PK, as i think he would help our PK struggles. But i think the only reason he doesnt play on the PK is because he play too many minutes 5 on 5 and PP, not becasue he is not good enough. Under Burke he structured us the same way he structures all his teams. Top 6 players to score and play PP. Bottom six to play energy/checking roles and to play PK and sheltered situational minutes. Maybe Carlyle will try him out on the PK casue it seems like a match made in heaven given his skill set.

Lebda Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #85
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,701
vCash: 500
He knows his importance to Toronto. He made not be the ideal franchise player, but he's our franchise player (as it stands) and I can't see him running away from that. He'll get help and sign another deal.

EDIT: Either way I don't think Toronto will necessarily be hurt by him leaving/getting traded. We've already seen what happens with Kessel led teams.. Very unsuccessful.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:01 PM
  #86
WreckItRask
Registered User
 
WreckItRask's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 7,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bach View Post
I have a terrible feeling that if the Leafs don't trade him, he'll take off to Minnesota. It makes sense that he'd choose to play there, give three factors. One-smaller market, quieter media. Two-He/his family are from Minnesota. Three-They're going to be a very respectable team with the acquisitions of Parise and Suter. The addition of Kessel would surely guarantee a playoff berth.
While I live here in MN, and would love to see Kessel play for the Wild, I'm not sure it's a reality. They have a ton of cap on the books with Suter, Koivu, and Parise, and I think they'd prefer to use Heatley/Bouchard/Cullen money on the backend, and let the Granlund/Zucker/Phillips/Coyle/Larsson/etc type prospects start to fill the other forward roles over the next few years.

By the way, he's actually from Madison, WI. Semantics, but thought it was worth pointing out.

WreckItRask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:01 PM
  #87
Lebda Snipes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maple Leaf Gardens
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bach View Post
I have a terrible feeling that if the Leafs don't trade him, he'll take off to Minnesota. It makes sense that he'd choose to play there, give three factors. One-smaller market, quieter media. Two-He/his family are from Minnesota. Three-They're going to be a very respectable team with the acquisitions of Parise and Suter. The addition of Kessel would surely guarantee a playoff berth.
Never thought about this, kinda scary if he bails and we get nothing. Minnesota does seem like a good fit for him.

If nonis is smart he try and re-negotiate next season before the deadline and if kessel refuses then we ship him out for a nice return.

Lebda Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:11 PM
  #88
preds1
Registered User
 
preds1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,632
vCash: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post

As a UFA he'll get paid no matter where he plays so I think he'll choose to go somehwhere where there is less scrutiny and pressure.
I'm betting he'll stay in TOR.
If not, I wouldn't mind seeing him in NSH.

preds1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:13 PM
  #89
Lebda Snipes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maple Leaf Gardens
Country: Canada
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
He knows his importance to Toronto. He made not be the ideal franchise player, but he's our franchise player (as it stands) and I can't see him running away from that. He'll get help and sign another deal.

EDIT: Either way I don't think Toronto will necessarily be hurt by him leaving/getting traded. We've already seen what happens with Kessel led teams.. Very unsuccessful.
Completey agree.

Lebda Snipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #90
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by preds1 View Post
I'm betting he'll stay in TOR.
If not, I wouldn't mind seeing him in NSH.
Nashville is probably the best possible spot for Kessel. He could hide behind Weber/Fisher/Rinne and yet be their best forward. Winning is also a possibility.

I like your chances.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:14 PM
  #91
roboninja
EYG
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,288
vCash: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebda Snipes View Post
Never thought about this, kinda scary if he bails and we get nothing. Minnesota does seem like a good fit for him.

If nonis is smart he try and re-negotiate next season before the deadline and if kessel refuses then we ship him out for a nice return.
NMC kicks in this summer. I know players can be moved with NMCs, but it does make it more difficult, and you usually get less value. Ask Howson.

roboninja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #92
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
So what are the odds that Phil decides to pack his bag and leaves Toronto if the team fails to succeed in the next year and a half?
50-50. Same as everything. Either it happens or it doesn't.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:20 PM
  #93
Oates2Neely
Registered User
 
Oates2Neely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BeanTown
Country: Azores
Posts: 8,147
vCash: 500
Lucic Krejci Kessel
Marchand Bergeron Seguin
Spooner Kelly Peverly

Oates2Neely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 12:21 PM
  #94
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Lucic Krejci Kessel
Marchand Bergeron Seguin
Spooner Kelly Peverly
Kessel will go sign to the team that plays in an arena that's notorious for humiliating him. Sounds about right.

Anth93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #95
inthewings
Registered User
 
inthewings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,081
vCash: 500
Tough decisions are coming soon in Toronto:

Grabovski signed 4 years @ 5.5 cap hit
van Riemsdyk signed 5 years @ 4.25 cap hit

UFA this offseason:
MacArthur
Lupul
Bozak

UFA next offseason:
Phaneuf
Kessel
Kulemin

They're about to be faced with deciding whether to let guys walk and extend the rebuilding period, or retaining an expensive core that has shown not to be able to get the job done.

inthewings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #96
inthewings
Registered User
 
inthewings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,081
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
50-50. Same as everything. Either it happens or it doesn't.

inthewings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 06:37 PM
  #97
threeGo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Tough decisions are coming soon in Toronto:

Grabovski signed 4 years @ 5.5 cap hit
van Riemsdyk signed 5 years @ 4.25 cap hit

UFA this offseason:
MacArthur
Lupul
Bozak

UFA next offseason:
Phaneuf
Kessel
Kulemin

They're about to be faced with deciding whether to let guys walk and extend the rebuilding period, or retaining an expensive core that has shown not to be able to get the job done.
I think they should buyout grabovski if they manage to sign perry and getzlaf. Trade JVR for someone else to make more space.

threeGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 06:44 PM
  #98
Vankiller Whale
Spread the love
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,676
vCash: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by threeGo View Post
I think they should buyout grabovski if they manage to sign perry and getzlaf. Trade JVR for someone else to make more space.
Wow.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 07:20 PM
  #99
Dylbot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,880
vCash: 500
I don't know odds, but I get the feeling that Kessel will be loyal to the Leafs provided they offer him what he deserves and that he continues to play a big role with the team. I think he resigns for 5 years at 7 mil a season. Seems fair for all.

Dylbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2013, 07:29 PM
  #100
Volcanologist
Used Register
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cosmodrome
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Phil Kessel continues to be one of the more misunderstood and under-appreciated players in the NHL.
It's disgusting how little respect he gets from fans and media. The guy is an amazing player. He also had 45 assists last year, which seems a lot for a 1-dimensional goalscorer.

As for him re-signing, I would say it's pretty much mandatory and should be priority 1 before Phaneuf or anybody else. Nonis has to get this team on an upward track and winning some games so that Kessel will stay.

Volcanologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.