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The Kreider Thread (1/22: Kreider fine, skating at practice)

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Old
01-10-2013, 11:14 AM
  #51
clmetsfan
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Originally Posted by Shark Staal View Post
Eberle, and Hall didn't exactly light the AHL on fire either this year.

He'll be fine.
I think Kreider will be fine too, but you must mean some other Eberle and Hall, because Jordan and Taylor combined for 85 points in 50 AHL games this year.

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01-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #52
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I don't think Kreider is an issue.

If he needs more seasoning, Torts will send him down.

That said, he will need to make the team just like everyone else in camp. And IMO that's a foregone conclusion. He is probably in better shape physically than any other player on this team, which practically guarantees him making the club out of camp. Whether he sticks will be up to his effort being 110% every shift.

This wouldn't even be a thread, if he were tearing up the AHL.

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01-10-2013, 11:42 AM
  #53
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Who do you even play over him?

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01-10-2013, 11:50 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I don't think there's any issue... He'll have every opportunity to prove himself worthy of being in the line-up and he will get a clean slate from the start of camp. Lack of AHL production does not put him in the dog house when he rejoins the big club. I don't even spend any time thinking about this as I fail to see the need for concern about this.
I couldnt have said it better myself

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01-10-2013, 12:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Not Dubinsky-lite because he will be better than Dubinsky, most likely. But similar in style.

Kreider will make the team. He has earned a look in NHL games with his performance last season. The Whale is not a good AHL team and production in the AHL has nothing to do with production in the NHL. There are guys who score well over point per game paces in the AHL and spend their entire careers there without ever being able to crack the NHL and guys who never produced at the AHL level but are able to jump right into the NHL and succeed. I don't think Kreider's STATS in the AHL will even be looked at or considered by Torts in making his decision. Some tape of Kreider's overall PLAY might be looked at, but the stats are irrelevant. He will have different stats playing, for example, on a line with Nash and Stepan than he does in the AHL playing with non-NHLers and rookies. He will get a chance in the top six right out of the gate and his performance in the NHL is what will determine if he needs to be sent back down; nothing else.
This.

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01-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #56
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Anyone remember those videos with Kreider doing some insane workout thing (I don't profess knowledge in said matters) and jumping out of the pool?



Seemed like it was only yesterday when the consensus was that we have ourselves a 30/40 goal scorer who will also dominate physically and be great on the forecheck.

Now a minority is saying 'We're ready to take the bust" whether they mean it or not and most others are on the fence.

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01-10-2013, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
Now a minority is saying 'We're ready to take the bust" whether they mean it or not and most others are on the fence.
He'll be very, very good. Most people here are extremely reactionary, to say the least.

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01-10-2013, 01:40 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
Anyone remember those videos with Kreider doing some insane workout thing (I don't profess knowledge in said matters) and jumping out of the pool?



Seemed like it was only yesterday when the consensus was that we have ourselves a 30/40 goal scorer who will also dominate physically and be great on the forecheck.

Now a minority is saying 'We're ready to take the bust" whether they mean it or not and most others are on the fence.

Did I miss something? I haven't seen anyone calling him a bust. A 25-25 power forward is not a bust. Not a superstar, but not a bust.

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01-10-2013, 01:41 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Did I miss something? I haven't seen anyone calling him a bust.
"ready to take"

A bit of a hyperbole perhaps to elucidate the continuously declining evaluation.

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Old
01-10-2013, 01:59 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
Anyone remember those videos with Kreider doing some insane workout thing (I don't profess knowledge in said matters) and jumping out of the pool?



Seemed like it was only yesterday when the consensus was that we have ourselves a 30/40 goal scorer who will also dominate physically and be great on the forecheck.

Now a minority is saying 'We're ready to take the bust" whether they mean it or not and most others are on the fence.
This was always a pipedream from the outset.

Kreider has all the physical tools. We'll see if he can put it together.

Just have a feeling Torts is going to ride him hard - very hard.

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01-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #61
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Not worried about this kid, already proved himself in last years playoffs. Will he slump? Yeah, all players do.

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01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #62
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kid is gold. there's zero reason not to play him. it's not like we have overwhelming depth... nothing can hurt by playing him. he was rushed into the playoffs and handled it better than most of our vets and he certainly is by no extent playing poorly in the ahl.

he's ready to play with the big boys and get some more experience.

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01-10-2013, 02:14 PM
  #63
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I have watched the whale the entire season and especially Kreider. I also went to a couple games. Until recently just before he got banged up he wasn't even playing first line.

The whale struggled on both ends except in the last few weeks where they seem to have figured it out.

Kreider has not dominated to say the least but I think it's more due to the lack of any offensive linemates especially centers. The legs are there and he is able to use his speed in small spaces but I think once back again with NYR he will be fine.

But to think he is going to get a point a night in any league is a bit unrealistic.

I just remember what Brad Richards said about him in camp last year after seeing him on the ice and telling a teammate "who is the bleep is that guy?" That's good enough for me and his playoff performance that this kid has NHL skill.

BTW Ken Gernander doesnt develop players he's awful at that.

For some reason hes getting inducted into the AHL hall of fame this year. A lifetime of mediocrity maybe.

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01-10-2013, 02:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
kid is gold. there's zero reason not to play him. it's not like we have overwhelming depth... nothing can hurt by playing him. he was rushed into the playoffs and handled it better than most of our vets and he certainly is by no extent playing poorly in the ahl.

he's ready to play with the big boys and get some more experience.
Hes expected to fill out a top 6 spot with the Rangers. He had 5 goals/12 points in 33 AHL games. Normally, I wouldnt put too much stock into those simple stats, but he will have a mandate to consistently produce offense.

Those numbers? Those are poor.

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01-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Shark Staal View Post
Eberle, and Hall didn't exactly light the AHL on fire either this year.

He'll be fine.
??

Eberle had a 1.5 PPG (123 pts over full season) and is still leading the league in scoring today by 13 over the next non-teammate (Justin Schultz).

Hall had a 1.30 PPG (107 pts over full season) and is 9th in scoring playing 8 less games than everyone.

Kreider has a 0.36 PPG (29 pts over full season) and isn't even 9th in scoring on his own team.

They are in no way comparable.

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01-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Not Dubinsky-lite because he will be better than Dubinsky, most likely. But similar in style.

Kreider will make the team. He has earned a look in NHL games with his performance last season. The Whale is not a good AHL team and production in the AHL has nothing to do with production in the NHL. There are guys who score well over point per game paces in the AHL and spend their entire careers there without ever being able to crack the NHL and guys who never produced at the AHL level but are able to jump right into the NHL and succeed. I don't think Kreider's STATS in the AHL will even be looked at or considered by Torts in making his decision. Some tape of Kreider's overall PLAY might be looked at, but the stats are irrelevant. He will have different stats playing, for example, on a line with Nash and Stepan than he does in the AHL playing with non-NHLers and rookies. He will get a chance in the top six right out of the gate and his performance in the NHL is what will determine if he needs to be sent back down; nothing else.
Dubinsky looked better at age 21 than Kreider. (NHL Wise)

At age 21, Dubinsky secured a top line role with Jaromir Jagr and performed exceptionally in the playoffs being put out in crucial moments at end of games to score/secure lead.

We'll see if Kreider can replicate that.

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01-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Dubinsky looked better at age 21 than Kreider. (NHL Wise)

At age 21, Dubinsky secured a top line role with Jaromir Jagr and performed exceptionally in the playoffs being put out in crucial moments at end of games to score/secure lead.

We'll see if Kreider can replicate that.
Dont know how you can make that judgment having not seen Kreider in the NHL at 21.

Kreider has more talent, but I do worry he might suffer from the same issues Dubinsky had - chiefly, not knowing the type of player he is and having his development suffer because of it.

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01-10-2013, 02:50 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
kid is gold. there's zero reason not to play him. it's not like we have overwhelming depth... nothing can hurt by playing him. he was rushed into the playoffs and handled it better than most of our vets and he certainly is by no extent playing poorly in the ahl.

he's ready to play with the big boys and get some more experience.

Yeah, that's what they used to say during the Neil Smith era when prospects were rushed and ruined. First, they'd be ok, then the other teams would catch on to them and they would start to struggle, get frustrated and never recover.

For more information, see: Dube, Christian.

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01-10-2013, 03:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Dubinsky looked better at age 21 than Kreider. (NHL Wise)

At age 21, Dubinsky secured a top line role with Jaromir Jagr and performed exceptionally in the playoffs being put out in crucial moments at end of games to score/secure lead.

We'll see if Kreider can replicate that.
He played with one of the best players ever not Derek Stepan. I don't even remember this. He played well for a stretch in the regular season with Jagr, but also didn't do much when he just came up to the Rangers.

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01-10-2013, 03:46 PM
  #70
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Kreider looked much more dynamic in the NHL playoffs than anything I saw of his college games.

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01-10-2013, 03:49 PM
  #71
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Yeah, that's what they used to say during the Neil Smith era when prospects were rushed and ruined. First, they'd be ok, then the other teams would catch on to them and they would start to struggle, get frustrated and never recover.

For more information, see: Dube, Christian.
So the solution is to leave him in the AHL under Gernander?

Given Kreider's history with the big club and Kenny G's history with prospects in general, I'll take my chances with him in the bigs, thank you very much.

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01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Dont know how you can make that judgment having not seen Kreider in the NHL at 21.

Kreider has more talent, but I do worry he might suffer from the same issues Dubinsky had - chiefly, not knowing the type of player he is and having his development suffer because of it.
Really? I think Kreider knows what kind of player he is. Outside of his speed, size and shot, his head is probably the best thing he has going for him. My main issue with Dubinsky was his tendency to try and dance and dangle when all he had to do was put his shoulder down and muscle a guy out of the way. I've never seen that with Kreider.

Having guys that can make stretch passes with aplomb is going to boost his production tremendously. All those times where we saw Gaborik find a seam in the D at the red line and catch a pass from Del Zotto are going to be mimicked by Kreider, IMO.

I also think Nash will be a great mentor for him.

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01-10-2013, 03:57 PM
  #73
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I love how people are judging Kreider's hockey IQ already when we have barely seen him play in the NHL. We'll see how smart he is with the puck AFTER he's had you know... like... at least half a season in the NHL.

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01-10-2013, 04:04 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Really? I think Kreider knows what kind of player he is. Outside of his speed, size and shot, his head is probably the best thing he has going for him. My main issue with Dubinsky was his tendency to try and dance and dangle when all he had to do was put his shoulder down and muscle a guy out of the way. I've never seen that with Kreider.

Having guys that can make stretch passes with aplomb is going to boost his production tremendously. All those times where we saw Gaborik find a seam in the D at the red line and catch a pass from Del Zotto are going to be mimicked by Kreider, IMO.

I also think Nash will be a great mentor for him.
I guess Im a bit soured by his AHL performance, thats all. I didnt see much of him with the Whale, but I dont think I can pin all of the lack of production due to his teammates. Is he a kid that only really turns it on against the best competition? Does he have the chops to play in the defensive/neutral zones? Was that what he was trying to learn in the AHL? Did his offense suffer because of it?

Im cautiously optmistic he'll be OK, but I have a lot of questions about him. The stuff on this board about how hes God's gift to the Rangers and going to be a 35/35 guy doesnt help either. I think expectations need to be tempered.

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01-10-2013, 04:09 PM
  #75
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The game as played in the NHL is a speed game. The more speed you have the better your team will be. Kreider (and Hags and perhaps Gabby) are our fastest skaters. We need Kreider's speed in our lineup on a nightly basis.

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