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Pick a prospect (viewing analysis)

View Poll Results: If you could only keep one.
Jacob Trouba 26 52.00%
Mark Scheifele 24 48.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #51
TroubaFan1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I did ask during the WJC if people thought Trouba would, and if so when, pass Scheifele but no one bashed me
Ive talked alot about how I disagree with the Jets drafting Scheifele. I think thats why we are getting this type of talk in this thread.

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01-10-2013, 01:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by AndersUlfBobby View Post
I have two children. This question is equivalent to asking which of my 2 kids I would pick over the other. I Can't. And I won't.
Did you really just compare players the Jets have drafte to your children?

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01-10-2013, 02:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Ive talked alot about how I disagree with the Jets drafting Scheifele. I think thats why we are getting this type of talk in this thread.
I agree PostmaFan1. I felt you had an agenda based on your track record on Scheif and the narrowness of the choices you offered but as Jet said it is your thread and there is nothing wrong with asking the question the way you did and there has been some solid content so far. I am a bit surprises Mark has fared this well so far considering how good Trouba looked at the WJC?


Last edited by ps241: 01-10-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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01-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I agree PostmaFan1. I felt you had an agenda based on your track record on Scheif and the narrowness of the choices you offered but as Jet said it is your thread and there is nothing wrong with asking the question the way you did and there has been some solid content so far. I am a bit surprises me Mark has fared this well so far considering how good Trouba looked at the WJC?
What won me over is Scheifele's track record. He's been improving over a longer period of time. Trouba looks great and is getting votes rightfully so, I still think he'll be an outstanding pro.

It's just Scheifele has shown consistency in development, he hasn't necessarily blown our socks off quickly like Trouba, but when it comes to prospects you want the maintained consistent incline in development and Scheifele is constantly improving facets of his game while we watch. That's not to say I don't believe the same for Trouba, I think he'll improve magnificently, it's just one has and we can only speculate the other will.

It's no fault of Trouba's that Scheifele was drafted a year earlier and has had more time time to develop in the eyes of the organization, but it's something that I believe heavily favours in Scheifele's direction. As his game overall has constantly gone nowhere but up.

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01-10-2013, 02:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I agree PostmaFan1. I felt you had an agenda based on your track record on Scheif and the narrowness of the choices you offered but as Jet said it is your thread and there is nothing wrong with asking the question the way you did and there has been some solid content so far. I am a bit surprises me Mark has fared this well so far considering how good Trouba looked at the WJC?
I have an agenda on a hockey board with a bunch of people I don't know? Thats an interesting way to put it. The reason why the choices are narrow is because we've only had two first round picks thus far. All I wanted to know was who Jets fans would prefer if we could only have one.

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01-10-2013, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
I have an agenda on a hockey board with a bunch of people I don't know? Thats an interesting way to put it. The reason why the choices are narrow is because we've only had two first round picks thus far. All I wanted to know was who Jets fans would prefer if we could only have one.
Mods I am answering a question PostmaFan1 asked so I assume this not OT.

If not an agenda then what would you like me to call it. Here are some of your opinions on Mark.

This one probably got it going after we lost the bronze medal game:

"Can we all admit now that Scheifele disappears when it matters? He was a terrible pick, and its about time Jets fans can admit it."

or

IMO Scheifele doesn't have one part of his game that says to me he has even the potential to be a top 6 forward in the NHL".

or this one that makes it seem like you care what a bunch of strangers on the board think:

"Scheifele is a third line center at best. Mark it down PostmaFan1 said it first!"

And if you don't care what a bunch of strangers on a board think why run a poll to ask their opinion about a 3rd line plug of a draft pick?

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01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Mods I am answering a question PostmaFan1 asked so I assume this not OT.

If not an agenda then what would you like me to call it. Here are some of your opinions on Mark.

This one probably got it going after we lost the bronze medal game:

"Can we all admit now that Scheifele disappears when it matters? He was a terrible pick, and its about time Jets fans can admit it."

or

IMO Scheifele doesn't have one part of his game that says to me he has even the potential to be a top 6 forward in the NHL".

or this one that makes it seem like you care what a bunch of strangers on the board think:

"Scheifele is a third line center at best. Mark it down PostmaFan1 said it first!"

And if you don't care what a bunch of strangers on a board think why run a poll to ask their opinion about a 3rd line plug of a draft pick?
I openly admit that I dont like the Scheifele pick. I was just interested in others opinions on the subject of our first round picks thus far. No agenda just curious.

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01-10-2013, 03:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Ive talked alot about how I disagree with the Jets drafting Scheifele. I think thats why we are getting this type of talk in this thread.
Ahh... Interesting. My point was I hope no one is attacking you as a person because that would be unfair and wrong.

In regards to the subject at hand, I kind of hybrid myself.


My opinions:
I'm fine with people thinking Scheifele was a reach or wanting Couturier or Hamilton above Scheifele (especially 'cos I was in team Couturier), because relative to general scouting opinion he wasn't as high regarded as some that were available... of course that doesn't mean it was that way for the Jets' scouting notes. Also, being a reach at the time of the draft doesn't mean he won't be better than those who were on the board or negates his own potential as a prospect. Trouba is even an example of how this happens in how he's appearing to progress better than those who were selected before and had players on the board still remaining who were generally considered better.

A good comment I once heard from an amateur scout was you shouldn't regret the prospect but the processes that got you there. I don't think the Jets' dramatically changed their scouting process and values between 2011 and 2012 NHL Drafts. Yet we have (IMHO) many exceeding expectations (Trouba, Lowry, Kosmachuk, Olsen), some meeting expectations (Scheifele, Yuen) and some... ya... (Sutter, Serville, Brassard) (keep in mind expectations are different for each of these). I don't dismiss any of the below expectations draft picks just because of the other above expectations draft selections.

Basically I don't think Trouba passing Scheifele would prove anything about Scheifele relative to the agreement or disagreement of picking him (personally I don't think Trouba has passed Scheifele yet; I think a lot of it is combination of shiny new toy and a lot of people recognizing him for what he is when they didn't know much before; I think Trouba is developing at a faster rate though which means if everything stays the same he will pass Scheifele eventualy, which wouldn't surprise me even if that is in the next 2 years, but that's just my opinion).

I don't even think comparing to people who were left on the board is wise. Postma, Byfuglien, and Enstrom were all late round picks who turned out well, but doesn't mean that everyone in every team who chose a player before them that never reached the NHL made "the wrong choice". Was Detroit wrong in selecting 5 players who never touched the NHL before they drafted Datsyuk or 4 before Zetterberg? Development is never linear and it's more of a guess with a tiny bit of art and science when it comes to extrapolating the success of picks.

In the end, I'm currently (subject to change) content with our draft process and I'm happy with the progress both our high-end prospects have made.
I'm not sold on Scheifele being a true-blue high-end 1st line centre but even his largest (professional) critics have moved from saying on Scheifele projects to being a possible above-average 2C who is a safe below-average 2C to saying he is projecting to be a possible average 1C who is a safe above average 2C.
Personally, I think Scheifele (in competency) will be a slight upgrade to Little (which would go along the same lines as the above projections) where Scheif will have similar defensive abilities and goal scoring, but (IMHO) much greater playmaking ability.

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01-10-2013, 03:29 PM
  #59
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In further reading this thread, my post may better fit a different thread (the how to handle Scheif thread) if this is agreed by the mods I would not be angry if it is moved.
Sorry.

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01-10-2013, 08:34 PM
  #60
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Personaly I have no problems with the thread. Scheifele and Trouba are our 2 top prospects, so why not debate them. I voted for Trouba but I'm still a Scheifele fan. I agree with the analysis he will be an avg #1C or above average #2C. I'm hoping for the later as that will mean we will have an better #1C (Mackinnon anyone?). I just think Trouba is a beast that will one day be 1-2 with Bogo. If the above plays out we will be a contenter especially if Kane can max out his potential.

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01-11-2013, 01:51 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Personaly I have no problems with the thread. Scheifele and Trouba are our 2 top prospects, so why not debate them. I voted for Trouba but I'm still a Scheifele fan. I agree with the analysis he will be an avg #1C or above average #2C. I'm hoping for the later as that will mean we will have an better #1C (Mackinnon anyone?). I just think Trouba is a beast that will one day be 1-2 with Bogo. If the above plays out we will be a contenter especially if Kane can max out his potential.
Hell, if we had drafted Couturier (or Hamilton), then Trouba, i would still pick Trouba. Not sure if this poll really proves Scheifele was a bad pick, or Trouba was just a very good pick.

But, there's an interesting thought. We stumble, bumble and tank this shortened season and then... draft MacKinnon.

Posing the same question, we can only keep one of Scheifele, Trouba and MacKinnon - who would it be? Scheifele might still be #3 on people's lists, but the debate between Trouba and MacKinnon would be fascinating.

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01-11-2013, 02:51 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Hell, if we had drafted Couturier (or Hamilton), then Trouba, i would still pick Trouba. Not sure if this poll really proves Scheifele was a bad pick, or Trouba was just a very good pick.

But, there's an interesting thought. We stumble, bumble and tank this shortened season and then... draft MacKinnon.

Posing the same question, we can only keep one of Scheifele, Trouba and MacKinnon - who would it be? Scheifele might still be #3 on people's lists, but the debate between Trouba and MacKinnon would be fascinating.
Keep them all again!:
Put MacKinnon with Kane and Wheeler for an epic scoring line
Put Scheifele with Ladd and Little for an epic 2-way line
Put Burmistrov on the third line with Lowry and Telegin/Kosmachuk... to become the next JStaal, we become like Pitsburgh where we have by far (at that point) best 3rd C in the league.

Enstrom, Bogosian, Byfuglien and Trouba form an awesome top4... and Melchiori, Redmond, Postma and Yuen fight for bottom rungs.

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01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
  #63
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Closer vote then I thought it would be.

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01-11-2013, 04:41 PM
  #64
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Should do this again if Scheifele scores in the home opener just to see how much things flux.

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01-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Should do this again if Scheifele scores in the home opener just to see how much things flux.
should do it consistantly after each one has a "big" game just to track how influenced people are by such things....

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01-11-2013, 05:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Closer vote then I thought it would be.
I am suprised as well.

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01-11-2013, 06:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Closer vote then I thought it would be.
definitely closer than it would be on the mainboards

Trouba beat Hamilton there and people even voted him over Murray

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01-11-2013, 06:35 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
definitely closer than it would be on the mainboards

Trouba beat Hamilton there and people even voted him over Murray
Not surprised by that vote on the main boards. Trouba was just ridiculous at the WJC. Not saying thats the be all end all, but he just stood out every single game. As a goalie myself, Trouba can be a d-man for me any day.

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01-11-2013, 06:40 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
Not surprised by that vote on the main boards. Trouba was just ridiculous at the WJC. Not saying thats the be all end all, but he just stood out every single game. As a goalie myself, Trouba can be a d-man for me any day.
I watch Trouba at WJC and Michigan.
Trouba still suffers from some poor decision making with the puck, especially in the defensive zone. But, I don't think there are are many 18 year olds who wouldn't have that. He definitely has some sick tools that go with great drive and character.

(Also a goalie myself and agree)

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01-12-2013, 08:29 AM
  #70
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Thanks to everyone who voted on this poll.

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01-12-2013, 09:58 PM
  #71
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Looks like Postma fan might have been on something:


From Hockey Prospectus top 50 NHL Prospects:
Quote:
14. Jacob Trouba, Defense, Winnipeg Jets (Previous Ranking: 42): Some may say I am merely making a kneejerk reaction on Trouba based on his great World Juniors, but truth be told, he has been that good in his freshman season at Michigan, too. He is a plus skater and physical player who defends well and the offensive element of his game has started to blossom.

.../....

20. Mark Scheifele, Center, Winnipeg Jets (Previous Ranking: 28): Scheifele continues to improve his game and seems to be tracking well as a prospect. He has great offensive hockey sense and he seems to be getting an extra step or two as well. If he can be an average skater, that's all he'll really need.

In his last update (September) Scheifele was 28 and Trouba was 42...
So both are trending up! Especially Trouba!


Last edited by garret9: 01-12-2013 at 10:05 PM.
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01-12-2013, 10:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Looks like Postma fan might have been on something:


From Hockey Prospectus top 50 NHL Prospects:



In his last update (September) Scheifele was 28 and Trouba was 42...
So both are trending up! Especially Trouba!
How long till we have our third on that list?

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