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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #951
I in the Eye
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
The Canucks are trying to trade Luongo. That is pretty obvious at this point.
If Gillis was seriously trying to trade Luongo (by serious, I mean off the team ASAP), his asking price would be as low as needed for a deal to get done...

We'll know how serious or not Gillis is in trading Luongo, by if he accepts an underwhelming return very soon...

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01-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I understand that the Canucks can survive with retaining their goalies.

I also know that the Canucks will not want so much cap space tied up in goaltending next season, especially with Eddie Lack and his $850,000 (0.75M AAV) waiting to be brought up.



Eddie Lack is a great goalie prospect. A smart decision would be to not sign Cory Schneider for 10 years in 2015. That way, if Eddie Lack turns out to be the next big thing, you're not stuck trying to unload a goalie with a massive contract.



The Canucks are trying to trade Luongo. That is pretty obvious at this point.
Unfortunately the cap circumventing contracts like Luongo's are a thing of the past as the owners closed that loophole.
The things that are obvious:
1. Van is trying to trade Luongo.
2. TO needs goaltending probably more than any other team.
3. Burke just got canned in part for just missing the playoffs.
4. Burke got canned in part in Van for running with Cloutier.
5. Nonis recognized Burke's mistake in Van and went out and traded for Luongo.

The rest is all conjecture. But it's ludicrous to suggest that the team without any good goalies is in the driver's seat in a deal with a team that has two great ones.

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01-10-2013, 01:58 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What?

Also, imo Vokoun > Fleury, and Fleury makes almost as much as Luongo.

Boston, NYR, Nashville, Price, etc, all pay similar amounts for their goalie tandems.
You have to look at as cap dollars spent wisely. The question is why spend the money on the guy playing a 1/4 of the games. NYR, BOS, NASH, all pay top dollar for the starting position, not the back up. Its simple math, cap dollars/minutes played, having large contracts sit on the bench is an inefficient allocation of cap space that could be spent addressing other needs. And that goes for all positions. Look at gomez in MTL. $7 mil for a guy who plays 7 minutes a game. If the oppoutunity arrises to better spend precious cap dollars, ecspecially for a team like VAN who look like they can contend for a SC, then trading to improve this efficiency is the clear answer.

This is why Van should be selling Luongo. Yes your tandem in net would probably be the best in the league, but its wasted resources that can be spent addressing other needs of the team.

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01-10-2013, 01:59 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Luongo for futures is a huge high risk/high reward scenario. People, in the real world, are judged on performance. If the deal does not work out for Toronto, the GM who pulled the trigger on the deal will be held accountable by his employers and the media.

The problem with trading futures is that it creates a double risk. Not only might Luongo not work out, but if an asset like Gardiner/1st rounder is included, there's a chance those assets could become something big.

The Leafs could easily find themselves in a situation where they miss the playoffs, and are no closer to a rebuild as they've traded away their future assets and are stuck with Luongo long term.

There are more problems on the Leafs than just the goalie situation too.
I guess this is where we disagree.

Trading Luongo for futures isn't a high risk, high reward. It's the opposite of that, because what you're getting with Luongo is a known commodity. Everything statistically and otherwise points to a guy who will play lights out for the foreseeable future (say 4 - 5 years ... till he's 38). There is little risk for the Leafs in trading raw, or undeveloped talent for that kind of return.

Even if the player turns out to be great, the Leafs themselves have already reaped the benefit from the the trade. It seems like you don't want to trade anything of value for a very valuable player. As a fan of your team, of course that's understandable ... but it's not how things are generally done.

I agree that there are more problems for the Leafs, but none as big or as easily solvable as the one they have in net.

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01-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Lebda Snipes View Post
The ones in sports who dont look 6 years down the line quickly find themselves out of a job.
Because soo many GMs are with one team for that long? Open your eyes sports is a NOW business or in the VERY near future.

The leafs have been building for 10 years.. you need a face of the franchise that isnt your X gm. You need to make the playoffs its embarrasing for hockey the leafs the biggest market the biggest spenders didnt make the playoffs between lock outs..

Teams that have 1/10th your budget managed it. Open your eyes YOU NEED A GOALIE.

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01-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
The Canucks are trying to trade Luongo. That is pretty obvious at this point.
There is a massive difference between trying to trade, and trying to get rid of a player. We have a spare starter, we are more then willing to part with one for a price. Getting rid of a goaltender, which seems to be at least some of the justification for some of the garbage offers we've seen here, isn't what we are looking to do. This isn't a fire sale, and the statement I quoted said Toronto needs Luongo less then Vancouver needs to get rid of him. We don't need to get rid of him, we want to move him for value.

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01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #957
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My read is that Leafs' ownership has told Nonis to get Luongo as they want to see improvement and they want a high profile player to make a splash with after the lockout. Nonis will ensure that he does not overpay but a fair deal will get done. Probably around the time the players approve the CBA.

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01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
Before the Canucks buy out Luongo for a nothing return, they will trade Schneider for a fantastic return, and keep Luongo going forward... which was the plan all along, until Schneider showed he's probably the best young goaltender in the game... How do you get rid of that? It's only for this reason, that Luongo is even discussed as being available... Gillis doesn't want to trade Luongo... Gillis doesn't want to trade Schneider... but Gillis will do what he needs to in order to position the Canucks closer to a cup...

Comparing a nothing return for Luongo against a fantastic return for Schneider, and when considering that both are fantastic goaltenders and a goal to win the Stanley Cup each year, it would be naive to think that Gillis wouldn't explore trading Schneider before accepting a no return from Luongo...

Offers for Luongo can be so low, that Luongo isn't even available... The Canucks can even keep both for at least another season... since it's Gillis' preference not to trade either, and both are currently good with it...


Yup. The option is there, though I wouldn't prefer it. But if it came down to taking a lousy return and keeping him? I'm keeping him.


And exactly, how do you trade Schneider given what he has shown?


I think Nonis is faced with this situation: Ride his two goalies, see what he has, but if they fail it's going to look bleak. If he subsequently trades for Luongo, from a now weakened position, it's going to look like he gave in to demands. If his goalies succeed, then people will question if letting Burke go was the right decision at all.


So his best play is to trade for Luongo ASAP, or wait until the offseason. He's not going to hardball and wait for Gillis to carry Luongo into the season. There are too many variables at play if he does so. Other teams could also materialize if their goaltending goes south. No, Nonis's best play is to strike now. When it's just EDM and PHI out there to contend with, oh and a lukewarm FLA, who has already had a meeting with Lu.


I expect a quick resolution to this.

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01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Lebda Snipes View Post
You have to look at as cap dollars spent wisely. The question is why spend the money on the guy playing a 1/4 of the games. NYR, BOS, NASH, all pay top dollar for the starting position, not the back up. Its simple math, cap dollars/minutes played, having large contracts sit on the bench is an inefficient allocation of cap space that could be spent addressing other needs. And that goes for all positions. Look at gomez in MTL. $7 mil for a guy who plays 7 minutes a game. If the oppoutunity arrises to better spend precious cap dollars, ecspecially for a team like VAN who look like they can contend for a SC, then trading to improve this efficiency is the clear answer.

This is why Van should be selling Luongo. Yes your tandem in net would probably be the best in the league, but its wasted resources that can be spent addressing other needs of the team.
Our needs include a legit top-6 RW and a gritty third line centre able to chip in offensively.

Lupul and Grabovski are the only players that might make us significantly better off the Leafs roster(excluding Kessel). If trading Luongo doesn't make us better, there isn't any reason for us to do it.

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01-10-2013, 02:06 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
If Gillis was seriously trying to trade Luongo (by serious, I mean off the team ASAP), his asking price would be as low as needed for a deal to get done...

We'll know how serious or not Gillis is in trading Luongo, by if he accepts an underwhelming return very soon...


I don't think the timing will matter much. It will come down to the return, as it always does.

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01-10-2013, 02:06 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Vancouver needs to rid themselves of Luongo a lot more than Toronto needs to add Luongo.
I think this is categorically incorrect and will remain that way until October 6 2013 at which point you will be correct.

As a farewell to Burke:

"the last time I checked the calendar said January 2013 not October..."

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01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Lebda Snipes View Post
You have to look at as cap dollars spent wisely. The question is why spend the money on the guy playing a 1/4 of the games. NYR, BOS, NASH, all pay top dollar for the starting position, not the back up. Its simple math, cap dollars/minutes played, having large contracts sit on the bench is an inefficient allocation of cap space that could be spent addressing other needs. And that goes for all positions. Look at gomez in MTL. $7 mil for a guy who plays 7 minutes a game. If the oppoutunity arrises to better spend precious cap dollars, ecspecially for a team like VAN who look like they can contend for a SC, then trading to improve this efficiency is the clear answer.

This is why Van should be selling Luongo. Yes your tandem in net would probably be the best in the league, but its wasted resources that can be spent addressing other needs of the team.
Back to back president's trophy winners, and our boys have brought in a jennings. Yes, it's not a stanley cup, but I'd hardly consider the money wasted. Also, most of the teams had a serious shot at the cup the last few years, and are expected to moving forward. If we move Luongo to the Leafs, we want someone who can impact our roster back just as much as he has impacted ours here, and will impact the Leafs. No deal to be had otherwise.

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01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
My apologies if this has already been posted:


Jimmy Murphy ‏@MurphysLaw74:

Interesting Flyers in Luongo rumors now. Reliable source told me prior to Burke firing they would be 3rd team in a 3-way trade for Lou to TO

Is Murphy a hockey writer?
Maybe:

Toronto give Gardiner/Phanuef to Philly, Philly give tons of picks and one byout to Vancouver, Vancks give Luongo to Toronto... Nice. Just speculation but i would love Phaneuf.

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01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #964
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Because soo many GMs are with one team for that long? Open your eyes sports is a NOW business or in the VERY near future.

The leafs have been building for 10 years.. you need a face of the franchise that isnt your X gm. You need to make the playoffs its embarrasing for hockey the leafs the biggest market the biggest spenders didnt make the playoffs between lock outs..

Teams that have 1/10th your budget managed it. Open your eyes YOU NEED A GOALIE.
Sure the Leafs do need a goalie but not at expense of young players like Gardiner or 1st round picks. We've already been down that route during JFJ era and somewhat during Burke's tenure where the Leafs lost on Seguin and potential 1C in Hamilton still ended up with a young winger in Kessel and also to his credit Burke did solidify the prospect pool and now we should trade them away for 2-3 years of playoffs?

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01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #965
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You'd think Philly would at least wait until the end of the season to do something like this. Seems a little early to be giving up on Bryzgalov. If they trade for Luongo and Bryzgalov ends up playing well this season, they'd have to trade him or buy him out.

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01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Vancouver media is definitely the worst, by far but the Luongo reports are not coming out of the Vancouver media...
I was giving someone the gears for demanding a guaranteed playoffs from Luongo, and the poster pointed out that many in the Vancouver media were doing just that. So it goes.

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01-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Back to back president's trophy winners, and our boys have brought in a jennings. Yes, it's not a stanley cup, but I'd hardly consider the money wasted. Also, most of the teams, Montreal withstanding, had a serious shot at the cup the last few years, and are expected to moving forward. If we move Luongo to the Leafs, we want someone who can impact our roster back just as much as he has impacted ours here, and will impact the Leafs. No deal to be had otherwise.
True. And people keep saying that Gillis runs a huge risk of getting a lower return if he doesn't strike now. If that risk is losing out on a largely redundant player like Bozak then that is a risk as a fan that I have no problem with. Realistically I think the best scenario is that we trade Luongo before the season as we have a major hole to fill with Kesler out. But if we don't get something back that makes us better theh I'd take the risk, personally.

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01-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I understand that the Canucks can survive with retaining their goalies.

I also know that the Canucks will not want so much cap space tied up in goaltending next season, especially with Eddie Lack and his $850,000 (0.75M AAV) waiting to be brought up.



Eddie Lack is a great goalie prospect. A smart decision would be to not sign Cory Schneider for 8 years in 2015. That way, if Eddie Lack turns out to be the next big thing, you're not stuck trying to unload a goalie with a massive contract.


The Canucks are trying to trade Luongo. That is pretty obvious at this point.
Why are people so convinced this is some kind of struggle for Gillis? Could very well be going according to his plan. He said long ago he would wait for the new CBA and he couldn't even make a trade if he wanted to until Sunday... But fans are convinced he's having trouble making this trade? Again, for all we know everything is going exactly how Gillis wanted it to.

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01-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #969
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Our needs include a legit top-6 RW and a gritty third line centre able to chip in offensively.

Lupul and Grabovski are the only players that might make us significantly better off the Leafs roster(excluding Kessel). If trading Luongo doesn't make us better, there isn't any reason for us to do it.
It was my understanding that a 3rd line center is exactly what Van needs. No?

Which is why every proposal contains bozak. a guy who seems like a natural 3rd line player.

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01-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #970
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I don't think the timing will matter much. It will come down to the return, as it always does.
Ya, "serious" wasn't the right word... "Pressured" is what I meant... We'll see how truly pressured Gillis is right now by if he accepts an underwhelming return very soon... IMO, he'll only accept an underwhelming return, if he feels pressured to do so... and doesn't want to get rid of Schneider at any cost...

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01-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Vancouver needs to rid themselves of Luongo a lot more than Toronto needs to add Luongo.
Completely disagree. Vancouver could still hold onto two goalies and be a contender for the cup. We're just a *better* team if we can re-allocate Luongo to obtain return for player(s) that could help us.

However, unless Toronto does something with their goaltending, they're pretty much guaranteed not to even make the playoffs.

So to me, Toronto needs Luongo a lot more than Vancouver needs to rid themselves of him.

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01-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #972
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I'm willing to bet Gillis will need to add some sweetener before Philly fans agree to this.

EDIT: The difference between Bryz and Luongo is not Schenn/Voracek and a 2nd.
Thats impossible to quantify but if you want to attempt it you've got to consider the difference between Luongo and Bryz vs the difference between Shenn/Voracek and there replacement. Maybe its Mayson Raymond. That being said goaltender is a way more important position than depth scoring and LU is a much better goalie than Bryz.

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01-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #973
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I guess this is where we disagree.

Trading Luongo for futures isn't a high risk, high reward. It's the opposite of that, because what you're getting with Luongo is a known commodity. Everything statistically and otherwise points to a guy who will play lights out for the foreseeable future (say 4 - 5 years ... till he's 38). There is little risk for the Leafs in trading raw, or undeveloped talent for that kind of return.

Even if the player turns out to be great, the Leafs themselves have already reaped the benefit from the the trade. It seems like you don't want to trade anything of value for a very valuable player. As a fan of your team, of course that's understandable ... but it's not how things are generally done.

I agree that there are more problems for the Leafs, but none as big or as easily solvable as the one they have in net.
If the Leafs were legitimately a Luongo away from being a Stanley Cup contender I would agree with you but they aren't.

Any team that has missed the playoffs for 7 years running cannot trade futures. It doesn't make any sense. They are not going to win the Cup this year or in the foreseeable future with Luongo, so they'd be better off rolling the dice on keeping their prospects and draft picks and hoping Reimer and Scrivens can carry the load at least in the short term. Some other goalie will be available next year or the year after if it doesn't pan out, maybe even Luongo at a cheaper price because the team he ends up going to ends up wanting to unload that albatross of a contract.

Slow and steady wins the Cup.

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01-10-2013, 02:14 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Why are people so convinced this is some kind of struggle for Gillis? Could very well be going according to his plan. He said long ago he would wait for the new CBA and he couldn't even make a trade if he wanted to until Sunday... But fans are convinced he's having trouble making this trade?
People are assuming that because a trade hasn't happened that Gillis is getting desperate. One thing that I can guarantee about Gillis is that he rarely acts out of desperation. He's a very patient person and I really have to give him credit for sticking to his guns despite pressure from local media to unload Luongo right away. I also give Luongo lots of credit for handling this so professionally.

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01-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #975
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Thats impossible to quantify but if you want to attempt it you've got to consider the difference between Luongo and Bryz vs the difference between Shenn/Voracek and there replacement. Maybe its Mayson Raymond. That being said goaltender is a way more important position than depth scoring and LU is a much better goalie than Bryz.
Voracek is our first line winger most likely. Schenn is potentially 2nd line staple center. Depth scoring is loosely being used here.

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