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2012-2013 Connecticut Whale/Greenville Road Warriors Thread (AHL, ECHL) Part II

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01-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post


Talk about The Undertaker
just came home and watched this again. i think i'm gonna watch this a few more times in the coming months. thanks for this. a guy sticking up for his teammate...not exactly the rangers m-o over the years, sorry to say. cant wait for this guy to make it to the show!

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01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #352
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just came home and watched this again. i think i'm gonna watch this a few more times in the coming months. thanks for this. a guy sticking up for his teammate...not exactly the rangers m-o over the years, sorry to say. cant wait for this guy to make it to the show!

I suspect Dylan will save us a lot of concussion problems. Did you see the first Beached Whale barely touch Fitz for almost killing Bourque? Do you think that would deter anyone from doing that again? Now think of what The Undertaker just did: would Fitz want to mess with Bourque or anyone else on the Whale ever again? Don't think so.

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01-10-2013, 03:54 PM
  #353
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Who told you that his defense was bad? Seems like the anti-McIlrath posts are all setting up strawmen: "You just like him because he fights, but I don't like him because he's bad." This is false. Nobody goes around pimping Noreau, who's almost as good a fighter, but he doesn't skate as well and isn't as good, so nobody is saying he's the next Beukeboom.





Nobody wants him to fail. It's just that some people are so desperate for us to get a big, fast, scoring forward that they are willing to overlook everything.

The explanations you are giving in a positive light is simply not believable. The idea that he plays better with better players does not hold as much water as the idea that he's a slacker who never keeps up the energy for a long-term.

He can come into a tournament, bust his @$$ there and produce results over a half a dozen to a dozen games. But as soon as he's in it for the long-haul, he starts to fumble.

The concern with Kreider seems to be that he's a much better sprinter than marathon runner. The hope is that Torts can whip him into shape and force him to compete on a daily basis for 8 months at a time.
1) I didn't say he was bad defensively, I said that people aren't talking about his defense. Hockey fans are obsessed with fighting. It's a part of the game, but probably the least important part especially when talking about someone you want to be a top 4 D-man.

2) So the fact that a limited young player plays better with better linemates is LESS believable than him being lazy when it comes to playing many games? Please tell me I misunderstood that.

Seriously did Kreider spit in your cheerios? Why the hate before he even plays his first regular season action?

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01-10-2013, 05:28 PM
  #354
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Nobody wants him to fail. It's just that some people are so desperate for us to get a big, fast, scoring forward that they are willing to overlook everything.

The explanations you are giving in a positive light is simply not believable. The idea that he plays better with better players does not hold as much water as the idea that he's a slacker who never keeps up the energy for a long-term.
Or he could just be working on rounding out his game. Go to the 2:50 mark: http://blueshirtsunited.com/videos/2...s#.UO9JvHdTZ8E

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He can come into a tournament, bust his @$$ there and produce results over a half a dozen to a dozen games. But as soon as he's in it for the long-haul, he starts to fumble.

The concern with Kreider seems to be that he's a much better sprinter than marathon runner. The hope is that Torts can whip him into shape and force him to compete on a daily basis for 8 months at a time.
Whose concern? Going through a learning process adapting to the pro game is not the same as not being able to bring it every day. Rod Gilbert came up for a cup of coffee in the 62 playoffs and put up five points in four games. The next season he only put up 31 points. Everybody knows what happened after that. Was Gilbert not really competing in that first full season? Or was he just working on his game and learning?

Disclaimer because this is HFboards: I'm not comparing Kreider to Gilbert. I'm comparing their situations.

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01-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #355
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1) I didn't say he was bad defensively, I said that people aren't talking about his defense. Hockey fans are obsessed with fighting. It's a part of the game, but probably the least important part especially when talking about someone you want to be a top 4 D-man.
I have consistently talked about his defense and his skating. So did the other people I've seen. The idea that people are pushing him only because of his fighting ability is downright false.

Everyone who dislikes McIlrath responds to every statement about his play with, "you only like him because he can fight" and then proceeds to explain why fighting isn't important. Then they come to believe what they just said: that people are only talking about his fighting. And yet, all those defending him are talking about his actual ability to play.


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2) So the fact that a limited young player plays better with better linemates is LESS believable than him being lazy when it comes to playing many games? Please tell me I misunderstood that.

Seriously did Kreider spit in your cheerios? Why the hate before he even plays his first regular season action?
The argument that he isn't doing well in Hartford because of linemates is just not true. Hagelin is also a speedster who doesn't create opportunities, and yet he was scoring at a point per game pace in the AHL. Every player is different, but I'd like Kreider to score at least on par with AHL 4th liners, how's that for super-high expectations?

Kreider in the NHL was told to use his speed. Torts was very careful about that. Kreider in the AHL was told to actually play hockey. And that's what caused his struggles.

I have no problem with Kreider. I like him. My problem is with people who are inventing stuff.

1) How could coaches tell someone with almost no pro experience that he doesn't have to play hard? This isn't a veteran, this is a kid with barely any knowledge of how to play against adults.

2) The idea that a north-south player should not be outscoring 4th liners in the AHL because he doesn't create opportunities is similarly ridiculous. He's skating up, runs into some career minor leaguer, loses the puck, then disappears for 10 minutes until the same episode later in the period. That's his problem.

My beef isn't with Kreider. As I've said, I still see him as a 25-25 player. My beef is with people who are pretending for no apparent reason that he's doing well in the AHL (early argument) or that he shouldn't be expected to do well in the AHL (current argument).

NHLers should perform well in the AHL, regardless of their style of play.

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01-10-2013, 05:43 PM
  #356
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By the way, I'm going to be rooting more for Kreider than for any other Ranger this year, as I always do for all rookies. I'm hoping that his AHL struggles are the result of Kenny G not knowing how to handle this type of a player, seeing as Kreider is the absolute opposite of what Kenny G used to be.

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01-10-2013, 06:23 PM
  #357
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By the way, I'm going to be rooting more for Kreider than for any other Ranger this year, as I always do for all rookies. I'm hoping that his AHL struggles are the result of Kenny G not knowing how to handle this type of a player, seeing as Kreider is the absolute opposite of what Kenny G used to be.
Ding, ding, ding.

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Old
01-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #358
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I have consistently talked about his defense and his skating. So did the other people I've seen. The idea that people are pushing him only because of his fighting ability is downright false.

Everyone who dislikes McIlrath responds to every statement about his play with, "you only like him because he can fight" and then proceeds to explain why fighting isn't important. Then they come to believe what they just said: that people are only talking about his fighting. And yet, all those defending him are talking about his actual ability to play.




The argument that he isn't doing well in Hartford because of linemates is just not true. Hagelin is also a speedster who doesn't create opportunities, and yet he was scoring at a point per game pace in the AHL. Every player is different, but I'd like Kreider to score at least on par with AHL 4th liners, how's that for super-high expectations?

Kreider in the NHL was told to use his speed. Torts was very careful about that. Kreider in the AHL was told to actually play hockey. And that's what caused his struggles.

I have no problem with Kreider. I like him. My problem is with people who are inventing stuff.

1) How could coaches tell someone with almost no pro experience that he doesn't have to play hard? This isn't a veteran, this is a kid with barely any knowledge of how to play against adults.

2) The idea that a north-south player should not be outscoring 4th liners in the AHL because he doesn't create opportunities is similarly ridiculous. He's skating up, runs into some career minor leaguer, loses the puck, then disappears for 10 minutes until the same episode later in the period. That's his problem.

My beef isn't with Kreider. As I've said, I still see him as a 25-25 player. My beef is with people who are pretending for no apparent reason that he's doing well in the AHL (early argument) or that he shouldn't be expected to do well in the AHL (current argument).

NHLers should perform well in the AHL, regardless of their style of play.
1) I'm not saying that you only like DM because he fights, I'm saying that's what most of the posts are about. Seems like hockey fans care about fights more than anything. That was a negative about hockey fans than McIlrath.

2) Sounds like you said they expect Kreider to be more well rounded. Considering he's a raw rookie he's probably struggling to make his game more well rounded and score. I don't see why that's despicable.

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01-10-2013, 09:19 PM
  #359
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Posters can like any part of anyone's game. I like all of McIlrath's game including standing up for a tiny teammate like Bourque. I don't care if someone doesn't like fighting and no one should care if someone else does.

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01-10-2013, 09:53 PM
  #360
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Posters can like any part of anyone's game. I like all of McIlrath's game including standing up for a tiny teammate like Bourque. I don't care if someone doesn't like fighting and no one should care if someone else does.
If most of the posts were about his defense then that would be fine. Most of the posts are about his fighting. We didn't draft him to only fight, at least I hope not.

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01-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #361
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If most of the posts were about his defense then that would be fine. Most of the posts are about his fighting. We didn't draft him to only fight, at least I hope not.
From what see, Beacon watches the games and comments on all parts of his game defense and fighting. I'm looking forward to hearing about some blasts from the point as well.

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01-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #362
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From what see, Beacon watches the games and comments on all parts of his game defense and fighting. I'm looking forward to hearing about some blasts from the point as well.
Beacon seems to like McIlrath as much as he hates Kreider (half kidding). Anyway, I was referring to most of the other posts.

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01-12-2013, 12:00 PM
  #363
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So when is Shoenfeld going to sign a few people to help this team? Kreider, Haley and possibly Gilroy will be gone... Yogan isn't the solution.

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01-12-2013, 12:24 PM
  #364
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So when is Shoenfeld going to sign a few people to help this team? Kreider, Haley and possibly Gilroy will be gone... Yogan isn't the solution.
If NYR sign Gilroy & MDZ, we will have 48 contracts (50 contract limit). There might be another player brought in to the Rangers up front as well. I am not sure if Redden (if waived & then demoted to AHL and told to stay home) will count against this limit (he is included in the 48 contracts) but would think so. RB mentioned somewhat vaguely that he would not count then, but as I said, very unsure about this.
I think there will be a necessary depth signing or two on The Whale as well, and possibly a minor trade.

This will establish itself very soon

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01-12-2013, 12:24 PM
  #365
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So when is Shoenfeld going to sign a few people to help this team? Kreider, Haley and possibly Gilroy will be gone... Yogan isn't the solution.

They are going for the first overall pick in the AHL Entry Draft. Oh wait...

McIlrath is big help on defense, but now, if Gilroy is gone, nobody (besides Parlett, yuck!) will be able to move the puck. Haley and Kreider are the only big wingers in Hartford (Jean is tall, but lanky), not sure who'll be working the boards now. With Hrivik likely out tonight, the team may not have enough forwards (again).

How about calling up Marc-Olivier Vallerand for tonight, hopefully he'll provide some offense. He's a former ECHL All Star and linemate of Jonathan Audy-Marchessault. The other option is Brandon Wong, who was a Hobey Baker candidate at the age of 20. He has really good on-ice vision, decently smart, but smallish (actually, more weak than small) and not fast enough for the NHL given his strength.

Jean - Newbury - Kolarik
Grant - Miller - Thomas
Bourque - Tessier - Segal
Yogan - Wiebe - Vallerand/Wong


Last edited by Beacon: 01-12-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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01-12-2013, 12:47 PM
  #366
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If NYR sign Gilroy & MDZ, we will have 48 contracts (50 contract limit). There might be another player brought in to the Rangers up front as well. I am not sure if Redden (if waived & then demoted to AHL and told to stay home) will count against this limit (he is included in the 48 contracts) but would think so. RB mentioned somewhat vaguely that he would not count then, but as I said, very unsure about this.
I think there will be a necessary depth signing or two on The Whale as well, and possibly a minor trade.

This will establish itself very soon
NHL contracts, plenty of players without any work that would take an AHL deal (Paul Mara for e.g.). 01/12/2013 Mike Mottau (D) San Antonio DEL Released from PTO, he can't be any worse that Mike effing Vernace. Look at this: http://theahl.com/pirates-sign-trio-...nsemen-p181272 and this: http://theahl.com/falcons-sign-helmer-p181238

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They are going for the first overall pick in the AHL Entry Draft. Oh wait...

McIlrath is big help on defense, but now, if Gilroy is gone, nobody (besides Parlett, yuck!) will be able to move the puck. Haley and Kreider are the only big wingers in Hartford (Jean is tall, but lanky), not sure who'll be working the boards now.
LOL'ed so hard at that
I expect Haley to be gone (only $500K in the NHL), Kreider too. Gilroy might be sent back down as the 1st recall option and given a two-way deal... Hopefully, don't want him on the Rangers but I do on the Whale. If he does stay in NY, good night CT

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01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
  #367
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NHL contracts, plenty of players without any work that would take an AHL deal (Paul Mara for e.g.). 01/12/2013 Mike Mottau (D) San Antonio DEL Released from PTO, he can't be any worse that Mike effing Vernace. Look at this: http://theahl.com/pirates-sign-trio-...nsemen-p181272
I think you are right. As I said, there will be movement on the Whale roster (additions made after camps are done and all players are cut). Most likely on AHL contracts though

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01-12-2013, 12:53 PM
  #368
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I think you are right. As I said, there will be movement on the Whale roster (additions made after camps are done and all players are cut). Most likely on AHL contracts though
hopefully there will be some good players left to sign to AHL deals, seems like other teams got a major head start on the free agents already.

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01-12-2013, 12:55 PM
  #369
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Following the media the past couple of days, only Gilroy and Kreider are in NY. Did I miss Haley being in NY already? Or did he never go? I know the Whale have a game tonight in Hershey, so maybe they told him to go an play, but with physicals on Sunday... how's that gonna work out?

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01-12-2013, 01:01 PM
  #370
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Following the media the past couple of days, only Gilroy and Kreider are in NY. Did I miss Haley being in NY already? Or did he never go? I know the Whale have a game tonight in Hershey, so maybe they told him to go an play, but with physicals on Sunday... how's that gonna work out?
Listen to Ole Axl - ride The Night Train


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01-12-2013, 01:03 PM
  #371
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Listen to Ole Axl - ride The Night Train

"I laav uuu aaxlll"

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01-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #372
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Does anyone know if Hrivik is okay?

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01-12-2013, 03:45 PM
  #373
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Does anyone know if Hrivik is okay?
Concussion according to Jim Cerny on Twitter (please don't make me go look for the tweet)

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01-12-2013, 03:57 PM
  #374
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Concussion according to Jim Cerny on Twitter (please don't make me go look for the tweet)
The tweet was by Larry Brooks and I was just wondering if there was anymore info about how serious it is or how long he'll be out.

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie

Marek Hrivik not skating with Rangers, sustained concussion last game with AHL Whale.

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01-12-2013, 06:06 PM
  #375
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Miss getting another chance to start after a great performance last time. Bourque has moved up to the first line to replace Hrivik, who previously played here. He's done very well on the 4th line, let's see what he does with quality linemates. I hope McIlrath stays on the ice when Bourque is playing to protect him. Miller is back playing with Haley.

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