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Old
01-08-2013, 07:41 PM
  #26
mark3361
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Again, I respect Carlsons game. But in the playoffs Chara and Seidenberg do ok in shut down role.

I value B's depth. IMO a huge reason why they won the Cup in 2011. While Vancouver was rolling borderline 4th liners over the boards as their 3rd line, Julien responded with Kelly Peverly and Ryder.

Without Hamilton, perhaps this would be worth the gamble. But if Hamilton lives up to half his hype, I'm ok with (Chara Boychuk Seidenberg Hamilton) top 4 for the next 3 to 5 years.
what happens when a D goes down? Krug and pray for rain and who knows what Chara, Seigs and Boychuk look like in 3 years. they aint young we dont have much D depth. Peverly and Kelly gave team much needed jolt but are easier to replace,

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01-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #27
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Why in the hell would the caps trade a cheap really good young Dmen? The caps arent trade carlson

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01-08-2013, 07:43 PM
  #28
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Also, let me say it out loud, seeing Chris Bourque in the NHL would be lulz.
your likely seeing him on 3rd line wing for Bs opening night

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01-08-2013, 08:27 PM
  #29
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your likely seeing him on 3rd line wing for Bs opening night
If Satan wasn't injured they'd totally bring him back for one last go around!

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01-08-2013, 08:43 PM
  #30
Oates2Neely
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what happens when a D goes down? Krug and pray for rain and who knows what Chara, Seigs and Boychuk look like in 3 years. they aint young we dont have much D depth. Peverly and Kelly gave team much needed jolt but are easier to replace,
What happens when Rask goes down? Should we trade for a goaltender now too?

Chia will look to add veteran defensive help on cheap contracts.

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Old
01-08-2013, 08:49 PM
  #31
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3rd line a "black hole?" So what? There are more than enough stopgap players available on the free agent market right now to survive. Go sign a Sykora, Huselius, Langkow, Knuble, Dvorak, etc.

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01-08-2013, 08:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
False. Boston is NOT stacked at D. As it is they will have to start Hamilton or Johnson as their 6th dman,, and that's WHEN McQuaid returns from injury.

Also, Boychuk is Boston's top pairing dman (Chara's partner), Peverly is the B's center/ wing who scores 50 points on their 3rd line while playing PK, PP, and point on PP when needed, very versatile. AND you also want Knight one of their top prospects? Carlson is nice but not worth that much from Boston.

B's decline.
Don't be ridiculous.

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Old
01-08-2013, 08:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
3rd line a "black hole?" So what? There are more than enough stopgap players available on the free agent market right now to survive. Go sign a Sykora, Huselius, Langkow, Knuble, Dvorak, etc.
Huselius retired.

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Old
01-08-2013, 10:38 PM
  #34
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lol washington gets shafted badly on both.

Schultz, Ward, Galiev for Hamilton, how about that.

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01-08-2013, 10:39 PM
  #35
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Huselius retired.
well that changes EVERYTHING

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01-09-2013, 04:25 AM
  #36
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Carlson won't be traded and if he was, it won't be for a package like that.

I also see where Oates2Neely is coming from. That trade would mean the Bruins would have to restructure the team. They would need to replace Peverley and regardless of what some people say, that is not an easy task. How many players in the league play every forward position on any line in any situation and give you 50 points and have a cap hit like Peverley and are available? I can't think of any. Peverley is on the team because of those reasons and ideally he plays on the 3rd line but they won the Cup with him playing a good amount of time on the top line. It is the way the team is structured and moving him would require either that they go out and replace him or have a different philosophy on how their team is put together.

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01-09-2013, 03:52 PM
  #37
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Carlson won't be traded and if he was, it won't be for a package like that.

I also see where Oates2Neely is coming from. That trade would mean the Bruins would have to restructure the team. They would need to replace Peverley and regardless of what some people say, that is not an easy task. How many players in the league play every forward position on any line in any situation and give you 50 points and have a cap hit like Peverley and are available? I can't think of any. Peverley is on the team because of those reasons and ideally he plays on the 3rd line but they won the Cup with him playing a good amount of time on the top line. It is the way the team is structured and moving him would require either that they go out and replace him or have a different philosophy on how their team is put together.
Something else to factor in:

Boychuk
Pevs
Horton (let's say next year at $4m)

would cost over $10million next year and they can't afford resigning Horton.

Make this deal and Horton (4m), Spooner and Carlson cost you less than 9m.

So next year your choice would be Pevs, Boychuk and Spooner or Horton, Carlson and Spooner..... option B looks a heckuva lot better.

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01-09-2013, 05:52 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Something else to factor in:

Boychuk
Pevs
Horton (let's say next year at $4m)

would cost over $10million next year and they can't afford resigning Horton.

Make this deal and Horton (4m), Spooner and Carlson cost you less than 9m.

So next year your choice would be Pevs, Boychuk and Spooner or Horton, Carlson and Spooner..... option B looks a heckuva lot better.
So you're suggesting Spooner will replace Peverly seamlessly? That's where our opinions differ, you obviously don't place much value on Peverly.

I'm a fan of Boston icing the best possible team while Chara is still capable of playing at a high level. The gap between Carlson and Boychuk is less than the gap between Peverly and Spooner.

2011-12 Peverly:

54 games played, 42 points

Playoffs last season:

7 games played, 5 points

Not too bad for "11 goals". I don't see Spooner filling those shoes just yet. And that's Peverly on the 3rd line. Plug him on a 2nd line and its arguable those stats would spike a bit.


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Old
01-09-2013, 06:19 PM
  #39
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Boston's loaded up with defensive d-men , even with the possability of Hamilton playing this season, so giving up one of Mcquaid , Ference or Boychuk could open a spot for dougie.

Washington could use a stay at home d, as they've upgraded on forward , and have one of, if not the best, young goalies in the league who (at times) can really steal a game. Could also use a top 6 RW.

Option 1

Caps get

Boychuk
Peverley
Knight/Griffith

Bruins get
Carlson (+ if needed)

Option 2

Caps get

Mcquaid

Bruins get

Orlov

Add to both if needed.
First one I do. Boychuk is replaced by Carlsson and we can try to find another bottom six winger (either trade or internally). You don't pass up on Carlsson because of depth IMO.

Second one I wouldn't do. McQuaid is young and already well known around Boston. Not saying hes irreplaceable, but I wouldn't do it for Orlov.

We are also not "stacked" by ANY means on D. We have almost zero depth, and thats including a rookie whos never played a game in the NHL.

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Old
01-09-2013, 06:23 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Something else to factor in:

Boychuk
Pevs
Horton (let's say next year at $4m)

would cost over $10million next year and they can't afford resigning Horton.

Make this deal and Horton (4m), Spooner and Carlson cost you less than 9m.

So next year your choice would be Pevs, Boychuk and Spooner or Horton, Carlson and Spooner..... option B looks a heckuva lot better.
Spooner shouldnt be counted on for anything at this point, hes a good prospect but lets pump the brakes on pencilling him into the lineup.

I do agree with your premise though, having depth is nice, but Carlssons are more rare than Peverleys. I'd do the 1st deal in a second.

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01-09-2013, 08:58 PM
  #41
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Something else to factor in:

Boychuk
Pevs
Horton (let's say next year at $4m)

would cost over $10million next year and they can't afford resigning Horton.

Make this deal and Horton (4m), Spooner and Carlson cost you less than 9m.

So next year your choice would be Pevs, Boychuk and Spooner or Horton, Carlson and Spooner..... option B looks a heckuva lot better.
That is something to think about. I still don't see the proposal as something the Caps would want to do and I think this deal might make the Bruins worse this year. It might make them better, but it certainly makes them much more of a two line offensive team. It would require that Julien changes his coaching style of the last few years and have a definite #1-2-3-4 lines that get ice time in that order and he would have to much more heavily rely on lines #1+2. It changes the whole philosophy of the team and that worries me and I would be very cautious about doing that. It could be a great thing if Seguin was to switch to center and be a 90-100 point player, it wouldn't be that wise for me to expect that though.

Next year changes have to come, some players won't be back one way or another. I'm not in any hurry to dismantle the team they have now. Trading Dougie Hamilton for Carlson makes sense for the Bruins but not so much for the Caps since I am sure they intend to try and win the Cup this year and trading an NHL player for a prospect is no sure thing even if Hamilton has some great potential.

I think Chiarelli will make some moves, but I am pretty sure they won't be ones that I saw coming.

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Old
01-10-2013, 08:26 AM
  #42
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IF Tom Wilson is the "+" in the 1st deal then I do both.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
Caron-Kelly-Knight/Hanson/?
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Chara-Carlson
Orlov-Hamilton
Ference-Bartkowski/?

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Old
01-10-2013, 08:29 AM
  #43
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IF Tom Wilson is the "+" in the 1st deal then I do both.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
Caron-Kelly-Knight/Hanson/?
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Chara-Carlson
Orlov-Hamilton
Ference-Bartkowski/?

EW

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Old
01-10-2013, 02:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
IF Tom Wilson is the "+" in the 1st deal then I do both.

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
Caron-Kelly-Knight/Hanson/?
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Chara-Carlson
Orlov-Hamilton
Ference-Bartkowski/?
...and Caps do neither no matter what.

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Old
01-10-2013, 02:35 PM
  #45
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Yeah we're just dying to give Boston Tom Wilson. No way that could backfire horribly or anything.

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Old
01-10-2013, 03:02 PM
  #46
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ouch, thats bad

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Old
01-10-2013, 03:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by fedfed View Post
OP assumes we need a defensive defenseman.
It's not true. We need one for the future maybe, and we can draft him. But right now:
Alzner
Hamrlik
Schultz/Erskine/Hillen/Schilling
No need at all.
Also, let me say it out loud, seeing Chris Bourque in the NHL would be lulz.
You're delusional if you think we're set at LD and don't need defensive dmen. At this point Erskine is a plug, and neither one of Hamrlik, Schultz or Hillen belongs in the top 4. Schilling has yet to play in the NHL.

Having said that, I would say no to both trades. Green may never be the same player he was before the injuries, which makes Carlson too important, especially if you factor in his chemistry with Alzner. As for the 2nd trade, McQuaid won't get you Orlov.

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Old
01-10-2013, 04:00 PM
  #48
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So you're suggesting Spooner will replace Peverly seamlessly? That's where our opinions differ, you obviously don't place much value on Peverly.

I'm a fan of Boston icing the best possible team while Chara is still capable of playing at a high level. The gap between Carlson and Boychuk is less than the gap between Peverly and Spooner.

2011-12 Peverly:

54 games played, 42 points

Playoffs last season:

7 games played, 5 points

Not too bad for "11 goals". I don't see Spooner filling those shoes just yet. And that's Peverly on the 3rd line. Plug him on a 2nd line and its arguable those stats would spike a bit.
Chara, as far as I know, isn't retiring this year. So yeah, the Fs are worse witout Peverly this year. But which is worse for next year? No Horton or no Peverly, because you can't resign Horton with the roster as is, and spending 3m for a 3rd line F.. who, despite how you don't like to hear it, had 11 goals last year.

So yeah, I'd rather have Horton, Spooner and Carlson for this year and next than have Horton, Peverly, Boychuk this year with Peverly, Spooner, Boychuk next.

And sure, you can argue Peverly's numbers would spike if you played him on the 2nd line, except:

1) He played there a lot last year with Horton hurt and put up 11 goals. No need to put it in quotes as if it didn't happen. It was 11.

2) It doesn't matter what he would do on the 2nd line, if you are actually playing him on the 3rd line. What is even the point of that. Dan Paille would have better numbers if you played him on the 1st line than he has when he plays on the 4th, but who cares? He's your 3rd line RW and he's being paid 3m and he scored 11 goals. He's a good player. I have nothing against him and am not looking to deal him.

But a young, top 2 D man who put up close to as many goals last year, who is signed, who is a stud offensively and defensively? Yeah I say thanks Peverly but it's too good a deal to pass up.

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Old
01-10-2013, 04:17 PM
  #49
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File this one with the semin trade too

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Old
01-10-2013, 06:20 PM
  #50
fedfed
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Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
You're delusional if you think we're set at LD and don't need defensive dmen. At this point Erskine is a plug, and neither one of Hamrlik, Schultz or Hillen belongs in the top 4. Schilling has yet to play in the NHL.

Having said that, I would say no to both trades. Green may never be the same player he was before the injuries, which makes Carlson too important, especially if you factor in his chemistry with Alzner. As for the 2nd trade, McQuaid won't get you Orlov.
Hamrlik had a really strong second half (or less then half, last part) of the season, he was good enough for top-4. In a shortened schedule I think he could keep it up.

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