Ok, the 4th overall vs 13th overall argument may not be great, but...
We're talking about a 4th overall who has progressed as well as anyone could have anticipated, against a 13th overall who hasn't played in the NHL yet.
Two seasons in, that's a pretty good point. What has the 13th overall proven which indicate that he will have a better career?
Yes, he may end up better, but why would people think that now?
Like saying that Baertschi looks like he's going to be an all-star and a stud. Kane had 30 goals as a 20 year old. He's not too far off all-star status right now.
Really don't see how this poll makes any sense right now.
Thats a perfect reason to have a poll. Baertschi has an upside similar to Kane. Kane is a first line winger and Sven looks like he will be one shortly. I don't know whats so weird about asking who would you take for the future.
Thats a perfect reason to have a poll. Baertschi has an upside similar to Kane. Kane is a first line winger and Sven looks like he will be one shortly. I don't know whats so weird about asking who would you take for the future.
I guess I just don't see the point of the poll. You're asking who will be better in the future, the guy who just scored 30 goals as a 20 year old, or the guy who hasn't played in the NHL at the same age (ok, 5 games). In a couple of months, if Baertschi goes in and dominates during the shortened season, great! But right now, Baertschi is pretty much an unknown, and the poll results show that.
Thats a perfect reason to have a poll. Baertschi has an upside similar to Kane. Kane is a first line winger and Sven looks like he will be one shortly. I don't know whats so weird about asking who would you take for the future.
Calgary hopes Sven turn out like Evander.
Would Winnipeg trade Kane for Sven? Pretty obvious they wouldn't. Evander wins this poll easily. No reason to have this poll.
Ok, the 4th overall vs 13th overall argument may not be great, but...
We're talking about a 4th overall who has progressed as well as anyone could have anticipated, against a 13th overall who hasn't played in the NHL yet.
Two seasons in, that's a pretty good point. What has the 13th overall proven which indicate that he will have a better career?
Yes, he may end up better, but why would people think that now?
Like saying that Baertschi looks like he's going to be an all-star and a stud. Kane had 30 goals as a 20 year old. He's not too far off all-star status right now.
Really don't see how this poll makes any sense right now.
Yes and 30% is a sustainable shooting percentage... and being RIDICULOUSLY sheltered from tough matchups...
Those goals mean nothing to me...
Spencer Machacek had top5 highest points/min in the NHL but I know he'll never be more than a 3rd liner for the Jets. Small samples mean nothing for stats.
Sven is a good prospect:
Quote:
The Good: Arguably the most dangerous player in the WHL this year, Baertschi took his game from very good to a whole other level and elevated his stock to that of a top-end prospect. His skating improved from solid to above average, and he displayed great creativity with the puck coupled with his already high-end hockey sense and finishing skill. Baertschi is also a gritty player who gives it his all every shift and works hard in the corners. He's the total package and is ready for the NHL.
The Bad: Size is his only real weakness as he's certainly undersized and the 5'11'' listing is somewhat generous.
Projection: He could be a top line forward.
But he's still a prospect... and IMHO almost every top6 player in the NHL is > a prospect until the prospect proves themself in the big league. (and Kane isn't a lowly top6 guy)
Yes and 30% is a sustainable shooting percentage... and being RIDICULOUSLY sheltered from tough matchups...
Those goals mean nothing to me...
I agree on unsustainable shooting percentage and sample size but to be fair, he wasn't exactly playing ridiculously sheltered match-ups. IIRC one of his goals came from an interception of Keith Yandles pass, and he's part of Pheonix's top D pairing.
The day after the draft is done, where a player was selected is no longer valid for anything. Period. It's just useless information. It doesn't matter if a player has progressed well since being a late pick or stumbled since being an elite pick, or vice versa.
GMs who rely on draft pedigree give jobs to (or trade for) to Cam Barker. Is that where you want to be as a fan? The HFBoards equivalent of Tambellini?
Only thing that makes me pick Baertschi, homerism aside, is that people (Jets fans included) regularly state that one of Kane's weaknesses is his brain. I'm a sucker for thinking players, which is a group that Baertschi belongs to. Kane definitely has better physical tools (size, strength, probably a better shot), but I think when they hit their peaks Baertschi will outstrip him in terms of overall effectiveness. I wouldn't bet money either way, though.
The day after the draft is done, where a player was selected is no longer valid for anything. Period. It's just useless information. It doesn't matter if a player has progressed well since being a late pick or stumbled since being an elite pick, or vice versa.
GMs who rely on draft pedigree give jobs to (or trade for) to Cam Barker. Is that where you want to be as a fan? The HFBoards equivalent of Tambellini?
While your absolutely right, Evander Kane hasn`t come anywhere near being a Barker or Skille so far and has absolutely reaffirmed his high draft position, which is to say: While it may be stupid to chain Baertschi to his draft number, it is equally stupid to cite tremendous busts in reasoning. IF Baertschi overtakes Kane while maturing, it would have to be more of a Kopitar>Ryan or Giroux>J. Staal situation. Simply being slightly above average (or better than Barker) won`t win him the crown in this poll.
I agree on unsustainable shooting percentage and sample size but to be fair, he wasn't exactly playing ridiculously sheltered match-ups. IIRC one of his goals came from an interception of Keith Yandles pass, and he's part of Pheonix's top D pairing.
He didn't spend much time against Yandle...
The most TOI he was matched up against was T.J. Galiardi... a prospect... and prospects/4thliners/3rdD are mostly what he saw...
CorsiQoC -3.638
RelCorsiQoC -1.723
That puts him as 18th lowest quality of competition for a forward in the NHL to play a game last season (out of 595 players).
The most TOI he was matched up against was T.J. Galiardi... a prospect... and prospects/4thliners/3rdD are mostly what he saw...
CorsiQoC -3.638
RelCorsiQoC -1.723
That puts him as 18th lowest quality of competition for a forward in the NHL to play a game last season (out of 595 players).
Right, I'm not arguing that.
My point is that one of his goals was against a top pairing defenseman and the goal was completely caused by him making the interception of Yandle's pass. Also if you look at his goal against San Jose, their top pairing was on the ice as well which included Brent Burns.
Meaning my only point was that you can't completely write off his 3 goals because he wasn't playing quality competition. Because as it turns out 2/3 were against high competition.
My point is that one of his goals was against a top pairing defenseman and the goal was completely caused by him making the interception of Yandle's pass. Also if you look at his goal against San Jose, their top pairing was on the ice as well which included Brent Burns.
Meaning my only point was that you can't completely write off his 3 goals because he wasn't playing quality competition. Because as it turns out 2/3 were against high competition.
What about what forwards were on the ice? (Not being cynical I just have no idea and too lazy to check) as they push the play more than defensemen do.
But your point still stands...
But IMHO any NHLer regular is heads above a prospect... (with the exception of very particular role players like grit/etc)
