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Old
01-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
I like the black ones better. its harder for players to locate the puck in goalmouth scrambles. or he can get some really big retarded oranges ones. remember how cool fleury used to look with those big yellow freak fests attached to his legs?
I've always had a soft spot for flamboyant, over-the-top goalie pads.

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01-10-2013, 01:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
I like the black ones better. its harder for players to locate the puck in goalmouth scrambles. or he can get some really big retarded oranges ones. remember how cool fleury used to look with those big yellow freak fests attached to his legs?
i love his black ones, but white is better on ice for a goalie: harder for forwards to find the pads.


i still use these on ice, this is the best combo in my view

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01-10-2013, 01:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I've always had a soft spot for flamboyant, over-the-top goalie pads.
Then you would love mine.

I hate Bauer, so i'm not a big fan of Bryz' new pads.

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01-10-2013, 01:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
The team will need 5 goals because we aren't nearly as good defensively as we were during his last stint. It's entirely possible Leighton lets in 4 goals per game or close to it this year. If we have another franchise all-time defensive performance again, then he'll be fine...but I don't think anybody expects that to happen. Good defense makes up for bad goaltending and vice versa. However, when Leighton is in net it's far more likely we'll be getting bad goaltending and bad defense. That's not a recipe for low goals against.
So it is entirely possible he lets in four goals per game? This is based on his history of doing this, right? Oh wait, that is not what his career stats say. But career stats don't mean anything because there were 42 games where his stats were slightly lower than his career numbers that inflate his career numbers (not a math whiz, but I would be interested in seeing how that is true because to me I would think that if stats were going to inflate career numbers, those stats would have to be higher than the rest of his career), and the Flyers had a good defense last time he was in net. That's right. I forgot you could ignore stats that don't support your argument. Hey, you know he has four career shutouts...if you ignore all his other games he is undefeated with a save percentage of 1.000 and GAA of 0.00!

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I doubt he gets many starts though. Bryz might start something like 44 games. I just do not understand the org's bizarre attachment to the guy.
Yeah I doubt he starts many games either, but even if he does wind up in net for 10 games or so (as was suggested by the poster to whom I originally replied), the team will not go 0-10 in that stretch because of Leighton. Like many, if not all teams, they will have to step it up and will not be in as good a position to win if Bryz gets hurt (as is the case across the board with all teams when the starting goalie goes down). But Leighton is a backup goalie with backup numbers. I will admit that a couple years ago I gave him way too much credit and was wrong about him. But the guy has backup goalie stuff and backup goalie stats. The only way to refute that is by arguing against the facts with nonsense like ignoring about half his career games for some reason (more if you will also discount his time on the Flyers, which didn't seem to help out the other goalies on the team that year...).

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His name being Leighton has zero to do with it. His lacking ability as an NHL goaltender is what's relevant.
Yeah I guess you are right. No bias whatsoever. My bad.

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01-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
So it is entirely possible he lets in four goals per game? This is based on his history of doing this, right? Oh wait, that is not what his career stats say. But career stats don't mean anything because there were 42 games where his stats were slightly lower than his career numbers that inflate his career numbers (not a math whiz, but I would be interested in seeing how that is true because to me I would think that if stats were going to inflate career numbers, those stats would have to be higher than the rest of his career), and the Flyers had a good defense last time he was in net. That's right. I forgot you could ignore stats that don't support your argument. Hey, you know he has four career shutouts...if you ignore all his other games he is undefeated with a save percentage of 1.000 and GAA of 0.00!



Yeah I doubt he starts many games either, but even if he does wind up in net for 10 games or so (as was suggested by the poster to whom I originally replied), the team will not go 0-10 in that stretch because of Leighton. Like many, if not all teams, they will have to step it up and will not be in as good a position to win if Bryz gets hurt (as is the case across the board with all teams when the starting goalie goes down). But Leighton is a backup goalie with backup numbers. I will admit that a couple years ago I gave him way too much credit and was wrong about him. But the guy has backup goalie stuff and backup goalie stats. The only way to refute that is by arguing against the facts with nonsense like ignoring about half his career games for some reason (more if you will also discount his time on the Flyers, which didn't seem to help out the other goalies on the team that year...).



Yeah I guess you are right. No bias whatsoever. My bad.
I have nothing against Leighton personally. There is no bias. I just don't like bad goaltenders, and not once while I watched Leighton with the Flyers did he look like a good goaltender. He always looked like a guy in over his head.

If you want to play the game where we start discounting his best season as an outlier, it's just going to drop his numbers further since those games are well over his career average and are a sizable chunk of his games played in the NHL; 1/5, actually. Outside of his one season with the Flyers, he has an alarming amount of bad starts. He's really good in the AHL, but he flat-out cannot cut it on any level in the NHL. There's a reason he only has 124 NHL starts in the last decade compared to 352 AHL starts. Most NHL backups have that stat reversed. Go look at how many starts he has per year. Outside of his one year, he generally gets less than 10 starts a year. Those aren't the GP numbers of an NHL backup, those are the GP numbers of a third string call-up. He has one season with Carolina (since the 05 lockout) where he plays a true backup role. That's it. The guy is not fit for the role.

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01-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I have nothing against Leighton personally. There is no bias. I just don't like bad goaltenders, and not once while I watched Leighton with the Flyers did he look like a good goaltender. He always looked like a guy in over his head.
so even during the Shutouts in the MTL series, hes still in over his head ?

i know, those were all the Team D, and when we lost the SCFs that part was all Leighton..

yea we get it..

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01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
so even during the Shutouts in the MTL series, hes still in over his head ?

i know, those were all the Team D, and when we lost the SCFs that part was all Leighton..

yea we get it..
Yeah, apparently you do get it. Glad to see you've come around . Leighton hardly had to work during those games. They were some of the easiest shutouts a goalie could hope to earn. They were a testament to how good the Flyers skaters were in their own end and at generally manhandling the smaller Habs team more than it was a testament of Leighton's skill. The one game where Pronger had a cold and Leighton had to do work, he got torched.

Our team was good enough on D in the Finals. We were more than good enough on offense. Leighton could only string together one good period at a time though, usually only one per game, and was utterly incapable of bailing out our third pairing like you'd expect a goalie to do when needed. Leighton was by far the weakest link on that team and it cost them badly. When your weakest link is in net, it's a huge problem.

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01-10-2013, 02:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Yeah, apparently you do get it. Glad to see you've come around . Leighton hardly had to work during those games. They were some of the easiest shutouts a goalie could hope to earn. They were a testament to how good the Flyers skaters were in their own end and at generally manhandling the smaller Habs team more than it was a testament of Leighton's skill. The one game where Pronger had a cold and Leighton had to do work, he got torched.

Our team was good enough on D in the Finals. We were more than good enough on offense. Leighton could only string together one good period at a time though, usually only one per game, and was utterly incapable of bailing out our third pairing like you'd expect a goalie to do when needed. Leighton was by far the weakest link on that team and it cost them badly. When your weakest link is in net, it's a huge problem.
Hahah, you know me n you are gunna have some epic thread battles this season when leighton plays right ???

i know how u get weak in the knees when the puck goes into Philly's end.. thats when ill pounce. haha..



but i'll be kinda sad we cant make jokes about #weakwrists thou... ohwell

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01-10-2013, 03:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
so even during the Shutouts in the MTL series, hes still in over his head ?

i know, those were all the Team D, and when we lost the SCFs that part was all Leighton..

yea we get it..
win = great team
lose = awful goalie

welcome to Negadelphia

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01-10-2013, 03:38 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
win = great team
lose = awful goalie

welcome to Negadelphia
Well that summed up everything i ever tried to say on here. I do think leighton sucks tho. i just think we have him cause he's cheap and he does have playoff experience for a cheapster. I'd rather have tubbs mcgee then bouche the ******. He's only here for a lockout season anyway, i really don't think he'll be here next year. that said, we need some prospects. cal heeter looks horrible to me.

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01-10-2013, 03:49 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
win = great team
lose = awful goalie

welcome to Negadelphia
you forgot win=great team -minus goalie
lose = awful goalie

haha esp. when chatting about Leighton.

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01-10-2013, 04:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
you forgot win=great team -minus goalie
lose = awful goalie

haha esp. when chatting about Leighton.
but that actually is the case when Leighton is playing, so whats the problem?

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01-10-2013, 04:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I have nothing against Leighton personally. There is no bias. I just don't like bad goaltenders, and not once while I watched Leighton with the Flyers did he look like a good goaltender. He always looked like a guy in over his head.
Well it sure seems like you have some sort of bias against him.

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If you want to play the game where we start discounting his best season as an outlier, it's just going to drop his numbers further since those games are well over his career average and are a sizable chunk of his games played in the NHL; 1/5, actually.
I am confused by what you mean here. I said that you SHOULDN'T be discounting his stats prior to the lockout or with the Flyers, you said that we should. Or did I read your original post wrong?

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Outside of his one season with the Flyers, he has an alarming amount of bad starts. He's really good in the AHL, but he flat-out cannot cut it on any level in the NHL. There's a reason he only has 124 NHL starts in the last decade compared to 352 AHL starts. Most NHL backups have that stat reversed. Go look at how many starts he has per year. Outside of his one year, he generally gets less than 10 starts a year. Those aren't the GP numbers of an NHL backup, those are the GP numbers of a third string call-up. He has one season with Carolina (since the 05 lockout) where he plays a true backup role. That's it. The guy is not fit for the role.
Again, his career line is that of a backup goalie. If you take out all of his good stats, you are right. He is left with bad stats. But you can say that about any player in the history of the game. Let's look at his career real quick. You are right, the guy does not have that many starts. But looking at the years when he played his most games (34, 19, and 34), he had backup goalie numbers. If you want to say any stats should be removed, I would say the stats in which he was a spot starter in the NHL. In those three seasons his numbers are respectable for a backup (.900 and 2.99, .901 and 2.92, and .905 and 2.83). Why don't those numbers, which are RIGHT IN LINE WITH HIS CAREER STATS represent his true ability, and the other numbers from his three years of playing less than 10 games represent his true ability? Why take out the largest chunk of his career and discredit that, and use the remaining 17 games as have that be the measuring stick? His career numbers are inflated by his career numbers? Give me a break. The guy is a backup goalie with backup numbers.

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01-10-2013, 04:36 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Why don't those numbers, which are RIGHT IN LINE WITH HIS CAREER STATS represent his true ability, and the other numbers from his three years of playing less than 10 games represent his true ability?
for the same exact reason that the Bryz bashers only look at 2/3 of last year's stats, throw out his career numbers [385 GP .915 SV % 2.52 GAA] & use that to say "i told you so" .. they simply don't want him here / don't want him to succeed here, then they can say "i was right about Bryz".

if they were neutral on Bryz, they would say "i hope he posts his normal career numbers this year" & not "if he stinks like [2/3 of ] last year" or any number of other Negadelphian favorite phrases


BTW: Rinne led the league last year in wins and posted 923 2.39


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01-10-2013, 05:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Well it sure seems like you have some sort of bias against him.



I am confused by what you mean here. I said that you SHOULDN'T be discounting his stats prior to the lockout or with the Flyers, you said that we should. Or did I read your original post wrong?



Again, his career line is that of a backup goalie. If you take out all of his good stats, you are right. He is left with bad stats. But you can say that about any player in the history of the game. Let's look at his career real quick. You are right, the guy does not have that many starts. But looking at the years when he played his most games (34, 19, and 34), he had backup goalie numbers. If you want to say any stats should be removed, I would say the stats in which he was a spot starter in the NHL. In those three seasons his numbers are respectable for a backup (.900 and 2.99, .901 and 2.92, and .905 and 2.83). Why don't those numbers, which are RIGHT IN LINE WITH HIS CAREER STATS represent his true ability, and the other numbers from his three years of playing less than 10 games represent his true ability? Why take out the largest chunk of his career and discredit that, and use the remaining 17 games as have that be the measuring stick? His career numbers are inflated by his career numbers? Give me a break. The guy is a backup goalie with backup numbers.
If he's good enough to be a backup goalie in the NHL, then why isn't he used as a backup goalie? He has only one season, with Carolina, where he gets the number of starts you'd expect from a backup. It's not like Cam Ward was playing 79 games. It's not like whoever was in Nashville was playing 81 games. He has one fluke season. You're looking at the fluke and saying "LOOK!" when you should be looking at his whole body of work, and seeing that he's a third string guy. Hell, I'm pretty sure Ward was having injury problems when Leighton was put on the waiver wire. At a time when they needed goaltending, they decided Leighton wasn't good enough, just like every other team before...including Philly, once.

You forget two things: in the years where he played over 30 games, it was a different circumstance. He wasn't playing as a backup in Philly. He was a starter playing consistently (that likely won't happen now), and he was protected behind a very good defensive team who played like they had an empty net (That definitely won't happen now). His other 30 game season was during a low scoring era before the rule changes, and those numbers aren't exactly mind-blowing, even for a prospect. That leaves us with one 19 start season. Only one lone season where he serves a true backup role. You don't think it's odd that the bulk of his career is spent as an AHL callup? You're just going to discount that he has only once been a primary backup, and not part of a platoon?

What evidence do you have that Leighton is an NHL caliber goaltender in this league? One or two seasons in the last decade? That's unconvincing, especially considering his work since then, and considering the bulk of his career has been in the minor leagues. He belongs in the AHL, not on the Flyers roster.

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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
for the same exact reason that the Bryz bashers only look at 2/3 of last year's stats, throw out his career numbers [385 GP .915 SV % 2.52 GAA] & use that to say "i told you so" .. they simply don't want him here / don't want him to succeed here, then they can say "i was right about Bryz".

if they were neutral on Bryz, they would say "i hope he posts his normal career numbers this year" & not "if he stinks like [2/3] of last year" or any number of other Negadelphian favorite phrases


BTW: Rinne led the league last year in wins and posted 923 2.39
Not sure what Rinne's numbers last year have to do with anything, since they're better than Bryz's.

What you fail to realize is that saying "He better not suck for 2/3 of the season, like last year" is a neutral statement about this year. It doesn't say he WILL suck, it expresses hope he improves. It's the same as saying "hopefully he returns to the norm."

Another thing: His career numbers do nothing to disprove the simple reality that Bryz was very, very disappointing for most of last year. That isn't "Bryz-bashing" or part of some vile agenda, that's a simple reality. The attempts by some to white-wash his last season or brush it under the carpet like it's something to simply be ignored show far more bias/agenda. Bryz still has quite a bit to prove in Philly. One good month isn't enough. It's a nice glimpse at his potential, but he has to live up to it first.

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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
win = great team
lose = awful goalie

welcome to Negadelphia
When Leighton was playing that was actually the case. It's cute you ignore all the praise Bryz got last March when the team was trying to go through their annual slump, and Bryzgalov stole several games instead.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-10-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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01-10-2013, 05:10 PM
  #91
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So Bryz thread gets hijacked by a Leights thread. We do have a goaltender controversy.

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01-10-2013, 05:13 PM
  #92
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So Bryz thread gets hijacked by a Leights thread. We do have a goaltender controversy.
only for those who insist on having a scape goat.

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01-10-2013, 05:17 PM
  #93
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only for those who insist on having a scape goat.
Only for those who like having NHL caliber players in crucial positions.

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01-10-2013, 05:37 PM
  #94
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Were losing focus. this thread was created to rip bryzgalov not leighton. Leighton's just a chubby bastid that plays best when he envisions a ding dong as the puck. He may also have some compromising pictures of homer. Either way we can all agree we aint winnin a cup with him in goal. It's been proven. Now back to Bryz

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01-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #95
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Were losing focus. this thread was created to rip bryzgalov not leighton. Leighton's just a chubby bastid that plays best when he envisions a ding dong as the puck. He may also have some compromising pictures of homer. Either way we can all agree we aint winnin a cup with him in goal. It's been proven. Now back to Bryz
Haha, well, there's a solid chance this becomes the Bryz/Goaltending megathread depending on whatever happens during the season. Or the Luongo megathread if something incredibly odd happens.

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01-10-2013, 05:42 PM
  #96
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Were losing focus. this thread was created to rip bryzgalov not leighton.
lol .... too true ... where's the "The All-Purpose 'no D Briere' Thread #7"

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01-10-2013, 05:45 PM
  #97
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lol .... too true ... where's the "The All-Purpose 'no D Briere' Thread #7"
If he's still a center this year something like that probably comes around. Dude needs to be on the wing.

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01-10-2013, 05:51 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
If he's good enough to be a backup goalie in the NHL, then why isn't he used as a backup goalie? He has only one season, with Carolina, where he gets the number of starts you'd expect from a backup. It's not like Cam Ward was playing 79 games. It's not like whoever was in Nashville was playing 81 games. He has one fluke season. You're looking at the fluke and saying "LOOK!" when you should be looking at his whole body of work, and seeing that he's a third string guy. Hell, I'm pretty sure Ward was having injury problems when Leighton was put on the waiver wire. At a time when they needed goaltending, they decided Leighton wasn't good enough, just like every other team before...including Philly, once.
Once again, how is the majority of career, in which he has posted his best numbers a fluke? 87/104 games he has stats that are commensurate with his career line. Please explain to me why this is a fluke. I would be very interested in hearing this. The majority of his career his numbers are in line with the career numbers (that is how averages work, no?). You are looking at reasons to discredit that (low scoring era, playing for flyers, etc) and pointing to a small portion of his games that show his TRUE ability. It makes no sense.

For instance...Claude Giroux has only had two good seasons. During this time he was playing on the top line so he got more time and was playing with the likes of Jaromir Jagr, a sure fire first ballot hall of famer. Put him on a line with the same people he was playing with two years earlier when he scored 47 points and that is really what you can expect from him. (This is a ridiculous argument that I would get laughed out of here if I made legitimately. However when you do it for Leighton I get laughed out of here for saying it is ridiculous.).

Quote:
You forget two things: in the years where he played over 30 games, it was a different circumstance. He wasn't playing as a backup in Philly. He was a starter playing consistently (that likely won't happen now), and he was protected behind a very good defensive team who played like they had an empty net (That definitely won't happen now). His other 30 game season was during a low scoring era before the rule changes, and those numbers aren't exactly mind-blowing, even for a prospect. That leaves us with one 19 start season. Only one lone season where he serves a true backup role. You don't think it's odd that the bulk of his career is spent as an AHL callup? You're just going to discount that he has only once been a primary backup, and not part of a platoon?
Once again, you can't just ignore the majority of his stats and discredit them, while also pointing to stats that are in line with his career stats (the 19 game season in CAR), and say that not only are the stats from his two largest samples not real, but his other season where he played in 19 games is not true, and the real truth is the smallest possible sample size.

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What evidence do you have that Leighton is an NHL caliber goaltender in this league? One or two seasons in the last decade? That's unconvincing, especially considering his work since then, and considering the bulk of his career has been in the minor leagues. He belongs in the AHL, not on the Flyers roster.
His career stats. Plenty of players are up and down before they get their shot. He's barely 30 years old and yes he is not an epic world class goalie. But he is a backup. With backup numbers. And backup abilities.

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01-10-2013, 06:02 PM
  #99
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post

Once again, you can't just ignore the majority of his stats and discredit them, while also pointing to stats that are in line with his career stats (the 19 game season in CAR), and say that not only are the stats from his two largest samples not real, but his other season where he played in 19 games is not true, and the real truth is the smallest possible sample size.
they do it with Bryz. career stats don't count. the only stats that count are the ones from when he struggled from Oct to Jan last year. they are the stats that fit the "anti Bryz" opinion ... so, throw away the career #s & focus on 26 games

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01-10-2013, 06:05 PM
  #100
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
they do it with Bryz. career stats don't count. the only stats that count are the ones from when he struggled from Oct to Jan last year. they are the stats that fit the "anti Bryz" opinion ... so, throw away the career #s & focus on 26 games
I think Bryz has a bounce back year. .918-.920%

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