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Changes to HFNHL - relating to new CBA

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01-10-2013, 12:18 PM
  #26
Paul Martin Jones
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PIT would have been bankrupt with MIN salary cap rules. Unlike the real NHL, we dont have the facilities to inject cash into the business in order to remain a functional business.

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01-10-2013, 01:51 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFNHL PIT GM View Post
PIT would have been bankrupt with MIN salary cap rules. Unlike the real NHL, we dont have the facilities to inject cash into the business in order to remain a functional business.
If we don't have the facility like real NHL than why do we have a cap like NHL? The minimum salary will be close to average revenue that we normally collect via attendance. I am sure the league will be able to inject one time cash to facilitate team like yours.

The min and max salary along with removing the $8M salary ceiling will make it very interesting for tier 1 team on who to keep and who to trade and will bring parity among all HFNHL team.

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01-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #28
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The only think is that we are going to have to be careful with revenue...the floor could easily go up to 50-60M within a couple of years. If we aren't increasing revenue at the same rate as the NHL we will have a whole lot of bankrupt teams.

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01-10-2013, 03:16 PM
  #29
Paul Martin Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islanders View Post
If we don't have the facility like real NHL than why do we have a cap like NHL? The minimum salary will be close to average revenue that we normally collect via attendance. I am sure the league will be able to inject one time cash to facilitate team like yours.

The min and max salary along with removing the $8M salary ceiling will make it very interesting for tier 1 team on who to keep and who to trade and will bring parity among all HFNHL team.

We have a cap because its not real money and something needs to be in place to keep teams from having zero accountability in contracts.


As much as I agree Id love to follow the NHL as closely as possibly, there are some dynamics we simply cant simulate.


The salary floor is one of them. If an NHL team is having cash issues, the owner goes to the bank or his personal fortune and injects money. This simply cant be done in our league and if one of us goes near bankruptcy the league puts some serious oversight on our operations and we can be fired.

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01-10-2013, 04:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFNHL PIT GM View Post
We have a cap because its not real money and something needs to be in place to keep teams from having zero accountability in contracts.


As much as I agree Id love to follow the NHL as closely as possibly, there are some dynamics we simply cant simulate.


The salary floor is one of them. If an NHL team is having cash issues, the owner goes to the bank or his personal fortune and injects money. This simply cant be done in our league and if one of us goes near bankruptcy the league puts some serious oversight on our operations and we can be fired.
As of now, you are very close to the floor and if you think you can handle $40M salary than I don't see an issue here. Rich, the league can always pump money in order to compensate the increase in mimimum cap.

I am sure you have noticed that there are few teams that are always at the top because they are able to retain top end talent given the max of $8M and NHL cap. If we are using the NHL Cap than we should use the actual salary and should eliminate $8M and bring in minimum cap.

The issue I have is that we force the team to match the NHL salary for low/mid level players (players making $8M or less) but we cap at $8M for high end talent (players like Crosby, Malkin etc). This creates an unfair advantage to toptier team while low end team are struggling to make a decent roster and can't get any players without paying more than market value.

By using the actual salary and cap, we will slowly eliminate this and will be more competitive all around the league.

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01-10-2013, 05:34 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islanders View Post
As of now, you are very close to the floor and if you think you can handle $40M salary than I don't see an issue here. Rich, the league can always pump money in order to compensate the increase in mimimum cap.

I am sure you have noticed that there are few teams that are always at the top because they are able to retain top end talent given the max of $8M and NHL cap. If we are using the NHL Cap than we should use the actual salary and should eliminate $8M and bring in minimum cap.

The issue I have is that we force the team to match the NHL salary for low/mid level players (players making $8M or less) but we cap at $8M for high end talent (players like Crosby, Malkin etc). This creates an unfair advantage to toptier team while low end team are struggling to make a decent roster and can't get any players without paying more than market value.

By using the actual salary and cap, we will slowly eliminate this and will be more competitive all around the league.
Crosby makes 700k more than he does at 8mill cap infact only 1 player I can name makes over 9mill and that's Vinny though that's probably gone down now. Pittsburgh NHL has Fluery,Malkin,Crosby,Letang,Neal had Staal. WSH had Ovi semin backstrom green the argument of teams having to many top tier guys is moot cuz NHL teams are the same.

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01-10-2013, 05:37 PM
  #32
Paul Martin Jones
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Are you saying we change our salary system so that our players have the same contract as their NHL alter ego's?

I understand its alot of work for the agents, I am sure this will make their life much easier.

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01-10-2013, 05:39 PM
  #33
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My problem with contracts and money is there no way to lower a guys value example Jokinen I had 2 choices let him hit FA try to sign him cheaper(which wouldn't happen) or sign him max money for a year the logic for this oh he makes 8mill why should he make less (actual quote from and agent one time I tried to sign a guy forget who now) that to this day was the stupidest thing I've ever heard the guy had a lower NHL contract and wasn't worth it but because we don't have the luxury of seeing them in person we just talk to a brick wall and can't sell a player to the market there last contract dictates the one he signs after

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01-10-2013, 06:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasGM View Post
My problem with contracts and money is there no way to lower a guys value example Jokinen I had 2 choices let him hit FA try to sign him cheaper(which wouldn't happen) or sign him max money for a year the logic for this oh he makes 8mill why should he make less (actual quote from and agent one time I tried to sign a guy forget who now) that to this day was the stupidest thing I've ever heard the guy had a lower NHL contract and wasn't worth it but because we don't have the luxury of seeing them in person we just talk to a brick wall and can't sell a player to the market there last contract dictates the one he signs after
The rules are set by Admin team and not the player agent. As far as Crosby goes, his salary is around $8M but with the shorter contract length and higher salary cap, we will see increase in salary for many over $8M. My point is very simple, why do I have to pay NHL cap for 4th line player and players at upper tier are capped at $8M? If we are using NHL cap than why not change the salary structure to NHL. The other alternative is to reduce the cap to $40M and leave the max salary at $8M as was the case in 2005/2006 season.

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01-10-2013, 06:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasGM View Post
My problem with contracts and money is there no way to lower a guys value example Jokinen I had 2 choices let him hit FA try to sign him cheaper(which wouldn't happen) or sign him max money for a year the logic for this oh he makes 8mill why should he make less (actual quote from and agent one time I tried to sign a guy forget who now) that to this day was the stupidest thing I've ever heard the guy had a lower NHL contract and wasn't worth it but because we don't have the luxury of seeing them in person we just talk to a brick wall and can't sell a player to the market there last contract dictates the one he signs after
You are not alone with this. I had to pay $5.75M for Nobokov when he makes a lot less in NHL. As an agent, I would ask the max for Jokinan because he was signed for max as a UFA and had better season last year.

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01-10-2013, 08:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islanders View Post
You are not alone with this. I had to pay $5.75M for Nobokov when he makes a lot less in NHL. As an agent, I would ask the max for Jokinan because he was signed for max as a UFA and had better season last year.
sounds like the agents can use whatever is better of the HFNHL or NHL salary. you have both sides covered.


i guess all i am saying is i think there will be unintended consequences if we use the salary floor.


thanks for your contributions and efforts as an agent, very much appreciated.

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01-11-2013, 08:11 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islanders View Post
The rules are set by Admin team and not the player agent. As far as Crosby goes, his salary is around $8M but with the shorter contract length and higher salary cap, we will see increase in salary for many over $8M. My point is very simple, why do I have to pay NHL cap for 4th line player and players at upper tier are capped at $8M? If we are using NHL cap than why not change the salary structure to NHL. The other alternative is to reduce the cap to $40M and leave the max salary at $8M as was the case in 2005/2006 season.
Agreed, the $8M cap is way too low given the salaries in the NHL. This allows teams with elite players to get a bargain, while teams with players a notch below will be forced to pay the same salary.

Especially now that it is going to be harder to circumvent the cap with back-loaded deals, the superstar players are going to be getting more money. Would anyone be shocked if Malkin got $10M when he hits the market in 2 years? Yet whoever has him will end up being allowed to auto-sign him at a 20% discount.

I already have enough problems with the auto-sign in light of the back-loaded deals. I should not be able to get Weber for life at a discount without having the burden of a 13 year deal.

But I just don't see how we can justify using NHL contracts as the baseline for everyone except the top players. I understand the max salary was to protect GMs from themselves, but that shouldn't be done by giving GMs that are lucky enough to have the best players a clear advantage over everyone else.

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01-11-2013, 10:34 AM
  #38
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The main problem with a salary floor is that the only way for teams to make money and build the bank balance back up is to have salaries below the revenue generated... so for every million I got below 42 (the average revenue per team) the more I put in the bank. Putting in a floor means that eliminates the one way I can make money.

And please don't argue that making the playoffs and endorsements will make money. Tried it. Doesn't work. Having a middling salary gives you a middling squad that is borderline to make the playoffs and loses money badly if you miss. If you want to compete you have to spend the money sooner or later. But if you don't have it you can't. Adding in a floor at this point condemns the league to have the exact same financial situation it has now infinitely, rich teams will stay rich cause they can afford better rosters, and poor teams have to keep dumping big contracts to stay afloat.

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01-11-2013, 10:37 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Agreed, the $8M cap is way too low given the salaries in the NHL. This allows teams with elite players to get a bargain, while teams with players a notch below will be forced to pay the same salary.

Especially now that it is going to be harder to circumvent the cap with back-loaded deals, the superstar players are going to be getting more money. Would anyone be shocked if Malkin got $10M when he hits the market in 2 years? Yet whoever has him will end up being allowed to auto-sign him at a 20% discount.

I already have enough problems with the auto-sign in light of the back-loaded deals. I should not be able to get Weber for life at a discount without having the burden of a 13 year deal.

But I just don't see how we can justify using NHL contracts as the baseline for everyone except the top players. I understand the max salary was to protect GMs from themselves, but that shouldn't be done by giving GMs that are lucky enough to have the best players a clear advantage over everyone else.
I don't much of a problem looking at the cap/salary numbers for the elite players and increasing our max salary if there is clear evidence that there are a number of players who earn more in the NHL. Jokinen wants his ten million a year for next season!!!

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01-11-2013, 11:25 AM
  #40
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The salary floor in the NHL is meant to keep teams competitive and avoid tanking (well, also to boost salaries from the NHLPA point of view). But if the real NHL could use a 'minimum rating', they would. Salary doesn't translate into more wins, but higher player ratings in the HFNHL do (for the most part). As such, a minimum rating floor is a much better standard for our league's integrity.

In the HFNHL, there will be some high priced players with terrible ratings, which a tanking team could acquire to meet the salary floor, but end up as one of the worst teams in HFNHL history. And the rules would allow it and we'd be stuck watching a few teams race to the bottom.

Minimum rating is much better, although we always have to be a little flexible on it given the ambiguity of the OV, and it's tough some times for GM's to know in advance of the season just where their OV is going to end up.

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