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Old
01-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #576
Marvelous Manked
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I think Wilfred gets a huge round of applause for his post.


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01-10-2013, 02:14 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
I really realized how effective Carkner and moreso Neil were as fighters having Konopka. Konopka would just fight whenever... whoever. He often hurt the team. I was not a fan.. but he did come up huge in the playoffs so I will keep Konopka in fine historical Sens memories.

But Neil... especially... totally knows when to pick his spots. He gets in a fight or plays a massive shift hitting everything that moves at EXACTLY the right times. He picks up the team. He never takes a stupid fight. EVER. Every fight is carefully timed to pick up the Senators.. change momentum. Konopka would fight when it was the other teams time to change the momentum!!!! Plus Neil can actually play and has skill.

I like you talking about Zack Smith... I saw a HUGE change in him not taking nearly as many dumb penalties last year and being so much smarter. I think and hope he continues to learn from Neil. Neil is like a top echlon pest, a top echlon hitter and a top echlon fighter. And he can score a dozen goals too. Even play on the PP in front of the net at times.

I LOVE Maclean. Neil is totally his type of guy. I wish I could remember Maclean's playing days because I assume and imagine he played the game in a similar way... with some more goal scoring accumen.

I won't mind if they keep Neil around forever... even after a decline. He is soooo smart about what he does.... even as an eventual 4 minutes a game guy in a half dozen years he will be so effective in the small spots he gets. I KNOW it!

Neil, I always liked... but in the last little while I get it. I get it... how unreplaceable and unique he is. How much he is the heart of the team. When Alfie goes... he won't be the Captain... but he will be THE HEART of this team. As great as the other leaders are.... they are not Neil. He is like a pyscholigical genius. He can read the emotion and momentum of a game like no one else.

He is no superstar.... no star even... but I predict and think we should and will retire his number when he is done here. Like Daneyko in New Jersey. You don't need to be a superstar to get your number retired.... you bleed for the team and play your important role perfectly... for 15+ years.... you get your number retired.

Neil is unreplaceable. He is so valuable and unique just for his mere presence. He has helped the team win more games then it is possible to imagine a 10 goal 20 point player could be responsible for. In hindsight... while Kelly and Fisher were better players... and key members and relentless members of this franchise. I know why it was Neil that stayed. It is funny that on HFboards so much salary crap was debated for these three players.... it is clear to me that all 3 were worth at the time and now every cent they got. Kelly, Fisher, Neil... 3 amazing characters that help a team win. We kept Neil. We kept the most important member of the trio for this rebuild. The sad but necessary purging of the core of this winning franchise... we lost Kelly and Fisher. But no way we lose Neil.

Anyway... I am just repeating myself. You look at the ALL-TIME fighting greats... the enforcers... the fighters... ALL-Time.... Neil looks favourably on most in value to a team. He is a light heavyweight... but he has fought most everyone at some time or another. And he usually wins... and even in draws... he comes out lifting his arms to the crowd and appears to win to the fans and his teammates. Even when he loses it seems to lift his team. In rating the overall usefulness of guys that fight a lot all-time he is up there. He is or has become one of the best fighters ever to pick his spots for the most ultimate value. To pick his roughing penalties for their most ultimate pest and intimidation value. I mean he is an ultimate pest and a fighter and he NEVER has even been suspended once. Despite some questionable hits... he manages to not EVER get suspended.

He is the ACTIVE penalty minute leader in the NHL 1861 minutes. #1! PIMs often hurt a team.... we measure tough guys in PIMs though. Many PIMs are earned coincidentally though and don't result in PPs against. I will venture to say with Neil... since he became a vet for many, many seasons.... virtually none of those PIMs hurt our team. None were reckless or selfish or spent in frustration or anger.... every one was purposeful... and even planned. Neil is mercrucial. He is a master of pyschology in hockey. Every act he commits is for the point... the longer point of it. And some tough guys have this effect... Neil is a MASTER of it... A pest.. and an enforcer... I have gradually come to realize that Neil is like the master of this play. A near all-time master. One of the best at this EVER in the history of hockey. Not the best fighter or the best enforcer... but one of the best EVER.... like EVER at this game of perfectly controlled and managed aggression and even violence. Neil can FEEL the momentum of a game. a period, a shift and act to push it in his teams favour... on a continuous basis... for years and years. And he has some skill and can play.

And repeating myself again... Maclean.. just gets it... he totally understands Neil... like COMPLETELY gets him. Even as Neil's abilities decline he now has a coach able to maximize him and totally get him. I think a lot of it just comes natural. I don't think Neil is sitting there on the bench planning it.. he might a bit.. but he FEELS it. Maclean gets him sooooo much. We are so fortunate to have this weapon of mass pyscological impact... who gets to play 8-12 minutes a night.

I finally get the immense value of Chris Neil. Not that I did not like him before but now it is clear to me he is a HUGE factor for this franchise. HUGE.
tl;dr but I agree.

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01-10-2013, 02:15 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
I will be the first one to admit that I wanted to trade Spezza 2 years ago(based on getting a great return of course) and so far I was wrong, Karlsson is the big reason not to trade Spezza and I don't think anyone could have predicted how well he has developed. Only time will tell when we look back in 4-5 years from now if it was the right decision, but so far it looks good.

That being said IMO the time to talk about trading Spezza is over, for now, in another year and a half we will start the talk about resigning him. I don't evan want to think of losing Spezza for nothing.
wilfred.... what happened to you... what's happening.

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01-10-2013, 04:20 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
wilfred.... what happened to you... what's happening.
Simple, I did not see anyone in the Sens system that could be a star at the time.

Now 2 years later Ottawa has a solid prospect pool and I hope by the end of this year will be one of the top UFA destinations around.

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01-10-2013, 05:11 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post

Neil, I always liked... but in the last little while I get it. I get it... how unreplaceable and unique he is. How much he is the heart of the team. When Alfie goes... he won't be the Captain. .. but he will be THE HEART of this team. As great as the other leaders are.... they are not Neil. He is like a pyscholigical genius. He can read the emotion and momentum of a game like no one else.
When Alfie retires, I could see the Sens naming either Neil or Phillips as the next captain. Then one of them would be captain for a few years until they retired which would let one of the prospects/young players develop into the next captain. After Neil/ Phillips it could be any of Cowen, Karlsson, Turris, Greening, Smith, Silfverberg, Stone, Zibanejad or Noesen.

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01-10-2013, 05:40 PM
  #581
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It'd be Phillips before Neil.

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01-10-2013, 05:47 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
It'd be Phillips before Neil.
I thought I heard somewhere that Phillips doesn't like the pressure of wearing the C and that is why he doesn't wear it if Alfie isn't playing. Phillips would be the logical choice, but if he doesn't want it then Neil would be a good option. Either way both guys are very respectable professionals and can help set a good example for the young players of what it takes to be a tenured NHL player and what it takes to be a real leader.

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01-10-2013, 05:53 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
I thought I heard somewhere that Phillips doesn't like the pressure of wearing the C and that is why he doesn't wear it if Alfie isn't playing. Phillips would be the logical choice, but if he doesn't want it then Neil would be a good option. Either way both guys are very respectable professionals and can help set a good example for the young players of what it takes to be a tenured NHL player and what it takes to be a real leader.
Doubt Neil would ever get it. He doesn't seem to have the best rapport with the officials which can be very important for a Captain.

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01-10-2013, 06:10 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
When Alfie retires, I could see the Sens naming either Neil or Phillips as the next captain. Then one of them would be captain for a few years until they retired which would let one of the prospects/young players develop into the next captain. After Neil/ Phillips it could be any of Cowen, Karlsson, Turris, Greening, Smith, Silfverberg, Stone, Zibanejad or Noesen.
I don't see either to be the team's captain as they move to the twilight of their careers. This team is Spezza's when Alfie retires, and Spezza will still be here when Neil and Phillips retire.

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01-10-2013, 07:01 PM
  #585
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spezza, obvious captain after alfie.

the neil i love is the "wildcard".

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01-10-2013, 07:19 PM
  #586
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It'll be Spezza no questions asked

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01-10-2013, 07:28 PM
  #587
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Silfverberg.

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01-10-2013, 08:32 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
I don't see either to be the team's captain as they move to the twilight of their careers. This team is Spezza's when Alfie retires, and Spezza will still be here when Neil and Phillips retire.
Spezza isn't really captain material. A lot of fans think he deserves the captaincy because he is arguably the highest skilled player on the team (Karlsson is giving him a run for his money and may actually be better offensively) but that doesn't necessarily make him a good captain. Actually from what I have seen of Spezza, I think he wouldn't be a very good captain. Guys like Alfie and Neil seem to really step up when the team needs a momentum shift, they are the heart and soul of this team. Spezza still has to prove that he can be the guy to carry this team. Now that doesn't mean that he isn't a highly skilled valuable asset to the team, all it means is that he isn't the guy to lead this team to a cup. At least that is my opinion based on his play.

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01-10-2013, 08:36 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Spezza isn't really captain material. A lot of fans think he deserves the captaincy because he is arguably the highest skilled player on the team (Karlsson is giving him a run for his money and may actually be better offensively) but that doesn't necessarily make him a good captain. Actually from what I have seen of Spezza, I think he wouldn't be a very good captain. Guys like Alfie and Neil seem to really step up when the team needs a momentum shift, they are the heart and soul of this team. Spezza still has to prove that he can be the guy to carry this team. Now that doesn't mean that he isn't a highly skilled valuable asset to the team, all it means is that he isn't the guy to lead this team to a cup. At least that is my opinion based on his play.
Career Playoff Points per Game (Active Players)

1. Sidney Crosby 1.324
2. Evgeni Malkin 1.191
3. Alex Ovechkin 1.157
4. Claude Giroux 1.100
5. Martin St. Louis 1.079
6. Jaromir Jagr 1.050
7. Patrick Kane 1.020
8. Danny Briere 1.009
9. Jason Spezza 0.962

Spezza sure doesn't step up his game when it matters.

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01-10-2013, 08:40 PM
  #590
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What if we just roll 3 assistants after Alfie retires for a while?

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01-10-2013, 08:42 PM
  #591
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Career Playoff Points per Game (Active Players)

1. Sidney Crosby 1.324
2. Evgeni Malkin 1.191
3. Alex Ovechkin 1.157
4. Claude Giroux 1.100
5. Martin St. Louis 1.079
6. Jaromir Jagr 1.050
7. Patrick Kane 1.020
8. Danny Briere 1.009
9. Jason Spezza 0.962

Spezza sure doesn't step up his game when it matters.
Stats aren't everything. How many of those players are captains of their respective teams?

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01-10-2013, 08:43 PM
  #592
PatrickEaves
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Stats aren't everything. How many of those players are captains of their respective teams?
How many of those players were stuck behind the longest serving captain in the league?

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01-10-2013, 08:44 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by 18Hossa View Post
What if we just roll 3 assistants after Alfie retires for a while?
Coaches only do that if they feel that no player has stepped up to be the captain of the team. If MacLean is unsure he try that for a few weeks at the start of a season after Alfie retires.

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01-10-2013, 08:45 PM
  #594
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How many of those players were stuck behind the longest serving captain in the league?
So are you implying that if Alfie had retired a few years ago Spezza would have been named captain?

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01-10-2013, 08:47 PM
  #595
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Stats don't even matter. It's clear Spezza will be the captain of this team. He alone has for many years carried the blame of this team, and he's withstood it and became a better player and leader.

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01-10-2013, 08:49 PM
  #596
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So are you implying that if Alfie had retired a few years ago Spezza would have been named captain?
Maybe. Who knows. Most teams in the league don't have the long-term leadership core than the Sens have been blessed with since Alfie became captain.

Redden
Phillips
Chara
Fisher

is a way deeper list than say the Pens when Crosby was named captain.

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01-10-2013, 08:52 PM
  #597
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Maybe. Who knows. Most teams in the league don't have the long-term leadership core than the Sens have been blessed with since Alfie became captain.

Phillips
Chara
Fisher

is a way deeper list than say the Pens when Crosby was named captain.
Fair enough, but it is still my firm belief that he isn't the guy to lead this team to a cup. If he does get named captain then he will be given the opportunity to prove me wrong and show that he really can carry this team. If he isn't named captain then the organization feels the same way about him that I do.

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01-10-2013, 09:04 PM
  #598
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Spezza will be the next Captain.

I remember him stepping in to that role when Alfie was hurt a few years back.

I'd like to see Alfredsson give it up to him before he retires, but I doubt that will happen.

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01-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #599
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Spezza is the best choice. Not in the league... but on the team, definitely.

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01-10-2013, 09:33 PM
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Spezza isn't really captain material. A lot of fans think he deserves the captaincy because he is arguably the highest skilled player on the team (Karlsson is giving him a run for his money and may actually be better offensively) but that doesn't necessarily make him a good captain. Actually from what I have seen of Spezza, I think he wouldn't be a very good captain. Guys like Alfie and Neil seem to really step up when the team needs a momentum shift, they are the heart and soul of this team. Spezza still has to prove that he can be the guy to carry this team. Now that doesn't mean that he isn't a highly skilled valuable asset to the team, all it means is that he isn't the guy to lead this team to a cup. At least that is my opinion based on his play.
Up until this point, the players you mentioned instead of Spezza haven't lead us to a Stanley Cup either. You also don't need to win the Cup to be a good captain as Alfie has shown throughout his career.

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