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Old
01-10-2013, 10:02 PM
  #26
Avs44
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Out of curiosity... what would Colorado's asking price for Duchene be?
At this point? I would say we are not moving him at all. Especially with the uncertainty around ROR. Assuming ROR comes back..? Nothing really changes. Why would we even entertain moving him. His value is at an all time low, he has the most potential of all our centers, and that is a lot of potential btw, he is a life long Avs fan so he likely wants to play here for a long time, and he is on a great contract. No reason to move him, or any of our other centers.

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01-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #27
The Podium
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
You speak as if any of this stuff is even remotely relevant when it comes to whether Kessel will be traded. And you can guarantee about as much as the fans who said the same about Parise.

Should we trade him? Simple answer - if the return fills a greater need, either now or with excellent future considerations, then yes, we trade him.
Yes it is relevant. For someone who is a social wreck, finding a place thats comfortable im sure is very important. Why move and risk being exposed to a similar situation when you can guarantee fimiliarity, meaning he would likely want to re-sign. Also, trade Kessel and you create a huge hole. JVR, Lupul, MacArthur, and Kulemin as the top 6 wingers? None of which are even guaranteed to hit 50 points in a given season. You dont deal a top 10 scorers for futures or anything short of a massive overpayment if he has a good chance of re-signing.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
At this point? I would say we are not moving him at all. Especially with the uncertainty around ROR. Assuming ROR comes back..? Nothing really changes. Why would we even entertain moving him. His value is at an all time low, he has the most potential of all our centers, and that is a lot of potential btw, he is a life long Avs fan so he likely wants to play here for a long time, and he is on a great contract. No reason to move him, or any of our other centers.
You did a real nice job dancing around the question but...

#1. Nobody is untouchable.
#2. Duchene's value isn't at an all-time low. It's lower than it once was (end of the 2010-11 season), and higher than it once was (presumably, as a jr player). From here, his value can go up, or can go down.

There's "no reason to move" 95% of the players in the league -- except the return. I'm simply asking what that return would have to be.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
You did a real nice job dancing around the question but...

#1. Nobody is untouchable.
#2. Duchene's value isn't at an all-time low. It's lower than it once was (end of the 2010-11 season), and higher than it once was (presumably, as a jr player). From here, his value can go up, or can go down.

There's "no reason to move" 95% of the players in the league -- except the return. I'm simply asking what that return would have to be.
A top pairing LH young defensman, with equal or more potential than Duchene, who can play now. I don't see one of those on the Leafs. We would not be interested in a package deal, futures, older players, upcoming UFAs, and players like that.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
We actually might trade Kessel before his NTC/NMC kicks in.

Don't fool yourself.
We actually might trade Gardiner and Rielly for Malkin too.

Making up stuff is fun.


Last edited by Leafidelity: 01-10-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
01-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #31
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
A top pairing LH young defensman, with equal or more potential than Duchene, who can play now. I don't see one of those on the Leafs. We would not be interested in a package deal, futures, older players, upcoming UFAs, and players like that.
Considering Gardiner outscored Duchene, if i have one of the young top pairing D (assuming you mean Karlsson, Myers, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.) i would not include him in that swap.

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01-10-2013, 10:35 PM
  #32
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Considering Gardiner outscored Duchene, if i have one of the young top pairing D (assuming you mean Karlsson, Myers, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.) i would not include him in that swap.
That's fantastic for you.... We'll keep Duchene. As he mentioned earlier we don't want to trade Duchene.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #33
The Podium
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
That's fantastic for you.... We'll keep Duchene. As he mentioned earlier we don't want to trade Duchene.
You dont have to be rude Id deal Gardiner for Duchene, however, Gardiner makes up the 2nd tier of young D, anything more and your entering territory Duchene has no business being in.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Considering Gardiner outscored Duchene, if i have one of the young top pairing D (assuming you mean Karlsson, Myers, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.) i would not include him in that swap.
Great...great..see? This is where we go back to the part where we keep Duchene. Don't want to pay how much we value him as? Fine, whatever. Guess we will have to keep our top young center then. What a tragedy. I don't care if Duchene is not worth a top paring young D. Unless we are getting one, he won't be moved. You might move Gardiner for Duchene? Great. We wouldn't

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
EDIT: And Gardiner is certainly not in the 2nd tier of young Dmen... If the first tier is Doughty/Karlsson/Myers then the second tier is Staal/Subban/Hedman/OEL and Jake Gardiner is not on the same level as those guys, not even close. Those guys are the ones we would look to aquire in a trade with Duchene.
All are playing #1 for their team, they are definitely the top teir of young D.... I also take all but Hedman over Myers.

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01-10-2013, 10:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
All are playing #1 for their team, they are definitely the top teir of young D.... I also take all but Hedman over Myers.
No, they're not. Karlsson, Doughty and Pietrangelo are a clear step ahead of everyone else names. They are the top Tier. Staal, Subban, Hedman, and OEL are all Weak #1's/Good #2's with the potential to become good #1's just like Duchene. That's the type of player Duchene would net in a return, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

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01-10-2013, 10:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Its not just this, or the centers, it is literally any thread. Whining and everything. I really dont care if you want to deal him or not, just adding that Duchene wont be getting you a top pairing D at this point. If he can improve on what hes shown capable than sure, he definitely has the talent to do so, but not at this point. Trust me, im sick of Value of: or Proposal: deals involving Toronto players more than you. ****ing clueless some of them.



Your uneducated response is truly embarrassing.
Bozak and a 2nd is an old joke from Stastny to TOR threads...

Gardiner may not make the season opener for TOR and has been struggling with concussion symptoms. Considering what the Avs went through with Mueller... Don't you think they might be just a bit gun shy about trading for anyone who has not proven concussion issues are behind them?

You must not be familiar with the Toronto trade offer joke, because I don't see anything uneducated in the post. If anything you're uneducated as to previous ridiculous Leaf's proposals for our centers...

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:56 PM
  #38
The Podium
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
No, they're not. Karlsson, Doughty and Pietrangelo are a clear step ahead of everyone else names. They are the top Tier. Staal, Subban, Hedman, and OEL are all Weak #1's/Good #2's with the potential to become good #1's just like Duchene. That's the type of player Duchene would net in a return, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.
Ok our divisions are different, regardless you still included players that i said are still more valuebale than Duchene. Either way i cant see montreal deal Subban or Phoenix deal OEL for Duchene.

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Old
01-10-2013, 10:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Bozak and a 2nd is an old joke from Stastny to TOR threads...

Gardiner may not make the season opener for TOR and has been struggling with concussion symptoms. Considering what the Avs went through with Mueller... Don't you think they might be just a bit gun shy about trading for anyone who has not proven concussion issues are behind them?

You must not be familiar with the Toronto trade offer joke, because I don't see anything uneducated in the post. If anything you're uneducated as to previous ridiculous Leaf's proposals for our centers...
Its uneducated because usually uneducated people are consider "morons" and only a moron would poke fun in efforts to start a flame war.

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01-10-2013, 11:04 PM
  #40
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Ok our divisions are different, regardless you still included players that i said are still more valuebale than Duchene. Either way i cant see montreal deal Subban or Phoenix deal OEL for Duchene.
No player I listed in the 2nd category has significantly more value then Duchene they're all close.

Duchene is a very good #2C right now or a weak #1 who has the potential to become a star #1C. Every player I listed in my 2nd category are also Very good #2 Dmen or weak #1's but they all(Except maybe Staal, not sold on his Top end potential) have Star #1 Dman potential.

Unless you believe Dmen are significantly more valuable then Centers, then Duchene has very similar value too all those guys I listed.

One season does not change a players precieved league wide value like you seem to think it does. That's the problem with so many Leafs fans. You all seam to think because Kessel had a huge year this year he now holds the value of a PPG 40 goal winger. Or because Duchene had a poor year in which he played injured for 20 odd games, and played out of his natural position the other half of the year that his value has suddenly dropped significantly too the point that he can no longer return a player similar to him just of another position.

One season does not create a huge change, only after a string of very good seasons(at least 2) or a string of very poor seasons(also at least 2) can you start to say a players value may have taken a significant hit.

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Old
01-10-2013, 11:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Considering Gardiner outscored Duchene, if i have one of the young top pairing D (assuming you mean Karlsson, Myers, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.) i would not include him in that swap.
You are a good poster, but this is Awful. Just because Gardiner out scored Duchene does make Duchene worst or Gardiner better. They both have different potential and if Leaf fans are mad about our "overrating" players, then we can happily keep them, considering 99.9999% of these threads are created by Leaf fans. actually I proposal a giant sticky one, so we don't have to see these again.

Also iPad word correction is the biggest effin piece of junk ever invented. If you can tell, I am on one as we speak.

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Old
01-10-2013, 11:44 PM
  #42
The Podium
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
You are a good poster, but this is Awful. Just because Gardiner out scored Duchene does make Duchene worst or Gardiner better. They both have different potential and if Leaf fans are mad about our "overrating" players, then we can happily keep them, considering 99.9999% of these threads are created by Leaf fans. actually I proposal a giant sticky one, so we don't have to see these again.

Also iPad word correction is the biggest effin piece of junk ever invented. If you can tell, I am on one as we speak.
That wasn't to demean his value, just pointing out that although a bad season does not define a career it is hard to sell a guy coming off a 30-40 point seaons as one of the top young players in the league. Obviously that can change quick, I just don't think he can return that young top pairing D at this point. And ya the spell check sucks, im tired of having names checked, or continuously back spacing the same word since it insists on changing the word.

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01-10-2013, 11:50 PM
  #43
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No from Toronto!

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Old
01-11-2013, 12:11 AM
  #44
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Yes from Colorado in a heart beat

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Old
01-11-2013, 01:43 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
That wasn't to demean his value, just pointing out that although a bad season does not define a career it is hard to sell a guy coming off a 30-40 point seaons as one of the top young players in the league. Obviously that can change quick, I just don't think he can return that young top pairing D at this point. And ya the spell check sucks, im tired of having names checked, or continuously back spacing the same word since it insists on changing the word.
It's no reason to ignore the 2 seasons he had prior to that and what he accomplished at such a young age which is not something to be taken lightly. The list of current NHL players who have put up 67 points or more as 19 year olds in the NHL is a very short one and he's in some pretty elite company. (Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Gaborik, LeCavalier, Backstrom & Heatley)

You can take the 'he had a bad season so he sucks now' kind of attitude if you want but as Avs fans, we've seen what he can do and prefer to hold onto him, just in case he turns out as good as the other guys on that list. You can't really hold that against us, can you?

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01-11-2013, 01:45 PM
  #46
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Absolute no from Toronto. Why trade a prolific first-line scoring winger for a second line centre? Would you trade Phil Kessel for Mikhail Grabovski?

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01-11-2013, 01:49 PM
  #47
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For a potential Top 10 pick in a draft that could rival the 03 draft for talent, I certainly would. Heck I'd drive Phil to the airport myself.

Oreilly is also A LOT better then Grabovski. Similar point production on a far less offensive team, and there games away from the puck aren't even close.

Oreilly + Top 10 first in this years draft is fantastic value for Kessel. And not worth the risk for the Avs IMO. Would have the potential to turn out like the Kessel/Seguin trade.

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:04 PM
  #48
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is this a joke?

kessel for RoR? lol!

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01-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #49
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Absolute no from Toronto. Why trade a prolific first-line scoring winger for a second line centre? Would you trade Phil Kessel for Mikhail Grabovski?
I wouldn't trade anyone for Mikhail Grabovski...

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01-11-2013, 05:22 PM
  #50
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Absolute no from Toronto. Why trade a prolific first-line scoring winger for a second line centre? Would you trade Phil Kessel for Mikhail Grabovski?
Um... ROR is 21... The points he put up last year are pretty much equivalent to every season Kessel had prior to last years at age 24. Kessel also played in a more offensive system with Lupul as a linemate and more offensive defencemen on the team.

Not to mention ROR is very good defensively, he was something like 4th in overall PK time LEAGUE wide in his first season at the age of 18, Kessel hasnt even had a cup of coffee on the PK yet because he's scared of physical contact and doesnt know what to do in his own end. We're talking about a likely Selke winner or at least a candidate going forward who looks like he has the potential to put up pretty big points.

I wouldnt write ROR off as a 2nd line C.

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