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Old
01-10-2013, 10:35 PM
  #326
hctopcheds11
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I still look at this team and feel we can use a top-4 defender who can defend and play physical. I know he's on the back half of his career but how does everyone feel about Robyn Regehr? He can probably be had for a 2nd and a b level prospect as buffalo needs to clear space and has way too many defenders.

I think in a shortened season, he could be a nice fit considering.

Letang-Regehr
Orpik-Martin
Engo-Nisky
Strait/Bortuzzo

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts...

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Old
01-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #327
Tender Rip
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I have a hard time believing that would be the asking price for Regehr, but if that was so, I would be in on that immediately.

I think it is much more likely that Regehr ends up being a priced target at the deadline. But I agree that he makes a world of sense for us.

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01-11-2013, 12:33 AM
  #328
Sidney the Kidney
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"Robustly displeased" are extremely strong words; and to not just have one's play criticized, but their actual dedication itself, that's pretty profound, and not a great sign unless he can turn it around in a hurry. A whole season of playing badly and being a big reason for your team's lack of success is really bad for someone's confidence, not to mention their trade value.

We all know how bad Tangradi has been the last 15+ games or so, so if he got an invite and Despres didn't, that's also not a great sign.
I really hope it's not an attitude thing with Despres (perhaps wrong choice of word). Last season he was sent down right away, then this year he's not even invited to camp, both times due to "fishy" reasons. Hopefully he gets his head on straight and plays up to his potential.

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01-11-2013, 07:55 AM
  #329
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I really hope it's not an attitude thing with Despres (perhaps wrong choice of word). Last season he was sent down right away, then this year he's not even invited to camp, both times due to "fishy" reasons. Hopefully he gets his head on straight and plays up to his potential.
A lot of people throwing Despres under the bus because of one comment (not you)..,

Despres was playing well to start the season, then got hurt and missed about half a dozen games. After he came back he was struggling. But his play most of the season was what you would expect from him.

Kind of weird IF the Pen's decision makers said that, but I'm not too worried about it.

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01-11-2013, 08:24 AM
  #330
Jag68Sid87
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There is a REAL problem with our player development. Guys looks good until they turn pro, and then for various reasons they don't progress.

I feel this is really holding this organization back right now. Very bad news re: Despres.

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01-11-2013, 08:35 AM
  #331
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
There is a REAL problem with our player development. Guys looks good until they turn pro, and then for various reasons they don't progress.

I feel this is really holding this organization back right now. Very bad news re: Despres.
Oh please. Cut the drama. Who are all these guys that look great and then don't progress due to the org's player development? See Goligoski, Alex and Letang, Kris for talented D prospects that came through our system and excelled.

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01-11-2013, 08:35 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
There is a REAL problem with our player development. Guys looks good until they turn pro, and then for various reasons they don't progress.

I feel this is really holding this organization back right now. Very bad news re: Despres.
This organizations attitude towards prospects seen as top end potential talent changed after the cup win.

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01-11-2013, 08:40 AM
  #333
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Oh please. Cut the drama. Who are all these guys that look great and then don't progress due to the org's player development? See Goligoski, Alex and Letang, Kris for talented D prospects that came through our system and excelled.
I'm actually with Jags on this one. Letang had 'developed' before Bylsma ever inherited him. Gogo was pretty much developed. Not sure we saw a ton of progress in his game between the cup win and the day he was traded.

Look, I don't know if it's Shero or if it's Bylsma, but there's been a change in the organization.

I go back to the 2006-2007 season. Therrien wanted Staal and Letang to stay at least for a taste, and he pushed for it. Remember, that was when the team wasn't spending to the cap.

Last year, Orpik out, and it seemed all too logical to give Morrow a 10 game taste. Same thing year before that with Despres. Same thing, based on camp, to open the 2009-2010 season with Tangradi (who lit it up in camp with Sid and Kunitz).

The level of faith in and commitment to and patience with young players hasn't been there since the Pens won the cup. Hard to argue otherwise.

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01-11-2013, 08:48 AM
  #334
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The guy I posted the tweet from is a WBS beat reporter of some kind. He goes to every single WBS game home and away it seems, and tweets even from their practices. He seems like a reliable source of information.
Very disappointing . . .

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01-11-2013, 08:49 AM
  #335
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I love the excuse the organization used for not moving Tangradi up the depth chart against Philly despite him earning the opportunity. Line chemistry? Sullivan and Dupuis were too important for Sid? I have little doubt Sid would have had a bigger impact throughout the series if Tangradi had been given a chance earlier in the season.

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01-11-2013, 08:53 AM
  #336
KIRK
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I love the excuse the organization used for not moving Tangradi up the depth chart against Philly despite him earning the opportunity. Line chemistry? Sullivan and Dupuis were too important for Sid? I have little doubt Sid would have had a bigger impact throughout the series if Tangradi had been given a chance earlier in the season.
There are a bunch of these. Think last year. With Orpik out, what excuse was there NOT to give Morrow a 10 game cup of coffee?

And, I don't think it's Shero. What to do with Morrow was Bylsma's call in the same way what to do with Letang was Therrien's call in 2006.

You know, I hate to say it, but Dan Bylsma, more than the physical questions, is what really makes me apprehensive about what happens with Bennett.

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01-11-2013, 08:58 AM
  #337
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I'm actually with Jags on this one. Letang had 'developed' before Bylsma ever inherited him. Gogo was pretty much developed. Not sure we saw a ton of progress in his game between the cup win and the day he was traded.

Look, I don't know if it's Shero or if it's Bylsma, but there's been a change in the organization.

I go back to the 2006-2007 season. Therrien wanted Staal and Letang to stay at least for a taste, and he pushed for it. Remember, that was when the team wasn't spending to the cap.

Last year, Orpik out, and it seemed all too logical to give Morrow a 10 game taste. Same thing year before that with Despres. Same thing, based on camp, to open the 2009-2010 season with Tangradi (who lit it up in camp with Sid and Kunitz).

The level of faith in and commitment to and patience with young players hasn't been there since the Pens won the cup. Hard to argue otherwise.
What you said is a separate issue than what Jags was saying. He is saying prospects look like dick when become Pens and their development is ruined. You are saying we don't give young guys a chance. I agree with you and I disagree with him.

It's not like Despres is rotting in the AHL. Plus the examples you used from 2006-07 were when we sucked and now we have the luxury to let guys slowly develop. Other than Tangradi, there is little to no evidence that we are stunting the growth of our prospects. Let's talk about this in 2 seasons and see where we're at.

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01-11-2013, 09:11 AM
  #338
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
What you said is a separate issue than what Jags was saying. He is saying prospects look like dick when become Pens and their development is ruined. You are saying we don't give young guys a chance. I agree with you and I disagree with him.

It's not like Despres is rotting in the AHL. Plus the examples you used from 2006-07 were when we sucked and now we have the luxury to let guys slowly develop. Other than Tangradi, there is little to no evidence that we are stunting the growth of our prospects. Let's talk about this in 2 seasons and see where we're at.
Well, some have raised the issue of how players are developed. Beau Bennett and the whole north-south thing, for example. So, part of it might be forcing square pegs into round holes.

But yeah, for me, the bigger problem is Bylsma's perspective on and handling of young players with more talent than roster vets.

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01-11-2013, 09:13 AM
  #339
Mr Jiggyfly
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DB gave Jeffrey a shot and Despres as well. Both of them did well off the bat, which was key. Vitale also (but I still maintain he sends him back in lew of cutting Adams if Crosby wasn't on IR). Scratching Vitale for no reason last season was ridiculous.

DB flaw that I dislike, is he defers to his vets to a fault. However, when Jeffrey struggled last season off his injury, his TOI stayed around 12 mins. So DB was trying to let him work out his game.

I know I'm one of the few left who keeps defending DB, but I just believe he will change for the better and open his mind up to using young players, making better adjustments, etc.

He is still learning and he will get there.

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01-11-2013, 09:18 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB gave Jeffrey a shot and Despres as well. Both of them did well off the bat, which was key. Vitale also (but I still maintain he sends him back in lew of cutting Adams if Crosby wasn't on IR). Scratching Vitale for no reason last season was ridiculous.

DB flaw that I dislike, is he defers to his vets to a fault. However, when Jeffrey struggled last season off his injury, his TOI stayed around 12 mins. So DB was trying to let him work out his game.

I know I'm one of the few left who keeps defending DB, but I just believe he will change for the better and open his mind up to using young players, making better adjustments, etc.

He is still learning and he will get there.
I sincerely hope you're right.

Question one is 'does the guy get a chance'. Question two is 'does the guy still get a chance after making a mistake'.

Beau Bennett (and perhaps Tangradi, but especially Bennett) will show us pretty quickly whether Bylsma has evolved.

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01-11-2013, 09:24 AM
  #341
Shady Machine
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Well, some have raised the issue of how players are developed. Beau Bennett and the whole north-south thing, for example. So, part of it might be forcing square pegs into round holes.

But yeah, for me, the bigger problem is Bylsma's perspective on and handling of young players with more talent than roster vets.
Let's just wait to see with Beau. I think in general people on this board take a few quotes here and there way too seriously. Just because they made it clear to Beau that going north-south is important, that doesn't mean they told him to play like Craig Adams. There is room to be creative in this system. Plus, if he likes to slow the play down, Geno is the guy to do that with. So let's just be patient before throwing the Penguins development staff under the bus.

This is the season to see with guys like Tangradi, Jeffrey, Strait, Bort. Next year we will see how Despres and Bennett do (maybe sooner).

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01-11-2013, 09:24 AM
  #342
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I hear ya, Jiggy. I don't hate DB, really and I think he has a lot of potential.

I just really don't like the idea of using this team's prime contending years as a learn-on-the-job gig for the head coach.

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01-11-2013, 09:46 AM
  #343
Mr Jiggyfly
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I hear ya, Jiggy. I don't hate DB, really and I think he has a lot of potential.

I just really don't like the idea of using this team's prime contending years as a learn-on-the-job gig for the head coach.
I'm not delusional and I know he has been badly outcoached in the playoffs three years in a row. I cant even defend the TB series, because while Geno and Crosby were out, they won those three games with most of the same crew that played so well down the stretch. So there is no excuse to going up 3-1 and losing the series with most of the same players you started the series with.

I just think he has to lose the stubbornness if he wants to become an elite coach and I think he will.

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01-11-2013, 09:57 AM
  #344
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I'm not delusional and I know he has been badly outcoached in the playoffs three years in a row. I cant even defend the TB series, because while Geno and Crosby were out, they won those three games with most of the same crew that played so well down the stretch. So there is no excuse to going up 3-1 and losing the series with most of the same players you started the series with.

I just think he has to lose the stubbornness if he wants to become an elite coach and I think he will.
Well, I think that this go around, either he loses the stubbornness or his job.

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01-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #345
Mr Jiggyfly
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Well, I think that this go around, either he loses the stubbornness or his job.
If they have another first round exit with a healthy Crosby/Malkin, Shero is going to have a **** load of pressure on him from upper mgmt.

So, ya, DB is definitely on the hot seat. No doubt in my mind.

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01-11-2013, 10:31 AM
  #346
Jag68Sid87
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Part of what I'm saying is the same as what KIRK is saying, because sometimes part of developing a player is in fact to give him a chance. Development is a free-flowing exercise, including opportunities with the big club.

Whatever it is we're doing isn't working. And the greatness that is Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin have been masking it for quite a while now.

It would seem as though some of our young talent believes they should be more advanced than they are. The organization wants them to prove themselves more. There seems to be a disconnect here. Not just with Despres, but I believe with Tangradi too.

Honestly, there really isn't any good reason why guys like Strait and Bortuzzo aren't NHL regulars yet, either with us or someone else. And yeah eventually Vitale arrived, but the guy was 26 frickin' years old when it happened. This isn't baseball. This is a sport where guys can play at 18. By 22 you should have a player on your hands ready for the big league. 23 if he's a little late. 24 if he's a late-bloomer. Vitale was 26 and he was still fighting for time.

Who was the last 19-year-old (forget 18) that got a crack at earning a job with us? A legit shot, I mean. We've lacked the ability to infuse youth into the mix, and it's cost us. Is it because of a commitment to have a strong AHL club? Well, signing a bunch of retreads didn't work this year. And it hasn't helped development, either. It's been a lost season down on the farm.

So yeah, there is a problem here. Maybe this is why a lot of people think we have a SMALL window to win here. That should NOT be the case, since our core is still quite young relatively speaking. We're not exactly Detroit. And yet, their farm system is absolutely loaded with talent. They're uber patient with their prospects, but it works for them. Other teams promote kids a lot more quickly, and that works for them.

We need to figure out what works for us, because signing Benn Ferriero sure does nothing.

/rant

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01-11-2013, 10:34 AM
  #347
BlindWillyMcHurt
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Who was the last 19-year-old (forget 18) that got a crack at earning a job with us? A legit shot, I mean. We've lacked the ability to infuse youth into the mix, and it's cost us. Is it because of a commitment to have a strong AHL club? Well, signing a bunch of retreads didn't work this year. And it hasn't helped development, either. It's been a lost season down on the farm.
I know I'm kind of sniping, here but I think much of the reason we haven't seen any immediate impact types is simply because this team hasn't drafted any. Despite popular opinion about how "awesome" our defensive prospects are... most are probably still middle of the road, at best, in the grand scheme.

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01-11-2013, 10:51 AM
  #348
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I know I'm kind of sniping, here but I think much of the reason we haven't seen any immediate impact types is simply because this team hasn't drafted any. Despite popular opinion about how "awesome" our defensive prospects are... most are probably still middle of the road, at best, in the grand scheme.
Exactly. If by next season we aren't sporting 3 of Tangradi, Jeffrey, Strait, Bort, Despres, Bennett in our every day lineup (assuming they aren't traded) then I'll agree with Jags, KIRK, etc. However, most of these guys weren't highly rated prospects and we were trading our top picks in 07-09 to go for gold. It hasn't been until the last few drafts that we've been able to stock the cupboards.

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01-11-2013, 10:54 AM
  #349
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Also, how can anyone claim that they took too long with Vitale? The dude played 2 seasons in the AHL after college. That's totally reasonable in my book. That seems like complaining for complaining's sake.

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01-11-2013, 10:59 AM
  #350
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If they have another first round exit with a healthy Crosby/Malkin, Shero is going to have a **** load of pressure on him from upper mgmt.

So, ya, DB is definitely on the hot seat. No doubt in my mind.
IMHO, another one and done = Shero on hot seat and Bylsma toast.

Frankly I wonder with Mario and Burkle if it's another one and done whether a new concern becomes how anxious Geno and Letang will be to extend their deals over the summer. Yeah, I know, 'they love it here, blah, blah'. It's a lot harder to persuade someone to take less to build a winner in that case alone, harder still after four seasons of it.

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