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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-11-2013, 01:55 PM
  #51
vanwest
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Every time I've ever watched Kadri dating back to the year before his draft year, I saw Robbie Schrempf.

Skilled, amazing hands, poor skating, small, floater, lacks effort.

Good junior, not a good pro.

Way more Schrempf than Derek Roy, at least Roy was known as a two way player throughout his career. Kadri is a one way guy.

If Kadri ends up in Vancouver, Gillis is a bonehead.
That's the problem I see with Kadri too: Two way play.
I haven't watched him this year at all but I'd be interested in knowing whether he's made the committment. I know the Marlies' coach made comments about his conditioning. However, some time prospects take longer to mature. I'd be interested to hear if he's started to show the two way play and commitment.

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01-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #52
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I still think that San Jose would be the best trading partner for the Canucks. Luongo give them a legitmate shot at the cup and they have a lot better top end talent for Vancouver to target.

I originally thought Marleau but a few think his contract is too high.

What would it take from a San Jose perspective to get Loungo?
Sweet, we'll take Couture. Kthxbai. No takesiesbacksies.

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01-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
thats fine but top 6 or not he still blocks kadri. Kadri is talented but he doesn't have a spot
he will have to compete for the spot, our first line is set but our second line is

xxxx Kesler Booth
with Higgins, Raymond and Kassian vying for the last spot, but more importantly to start the season it will be

xxxx xxxx Booth with Higgins, Raymond, Schroeder, Kassian, and apparently Ebbett vying for two spots

If Kadri gets traded here, he will have an oppertunity to snag a top 6 spot imo and I could realistically see him on our third line next to Higgins/Raymond and Hansen to provide scoring form that third line

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01-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #54
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We're not counting them anymore because people would spam them just to get to the next number. It's way more than that though.
After the trade, I would love to know how many there was. It has been pretty insane.

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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I would be happy if Tanev turned into Hamhuis and Kassian turned into Lucic as well
Anyone who thinks this hasn't watched the two play, they are different style of players. Lucic is just one of the current great PF's but I would put it close to calling Kessel and Whitney because they are both small wingers. One being a goal scorer, and one being a set up guy.

I don't know why it bugs me, and who knows if Kassian will hit his ceiling, but its just not his style.

Anyway, I still maintain trade is for value of
Roster player
Good Prospect
first

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01-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #55
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I think Kadri could be fine offensively. But his defensive game needs lots of work. If he came I think that he starts out with the Wolves until he shows that he can play two way hockey.
Aye, it does but we are among the best teams around to provide the lessons. Given Kesler's unknown status, I think Kadri would crack the roster immediately simply because we need to spirit. Pair him with the right group and we could cover his weaknesses until Kesler is ready, then decide if he has progressed enough to stick around.

One reason I would like Kulemin to be honest. Higgins - Kadri - Kulemin has a nice mix of offense and defense in the short term.

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01-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
That's the problem I see with Kadri too: Two way play.
I haven't watched him this year at all but I'd be interested in knowing whether he's made the committment. I know the Marlies' coach made comments about his conditioning. However, some time prospects take longer to mature. I'd be interested to hear if he's started to show the two way play and commitment.
From the Marlies games I've seen this year, he's shown good vision in the offensive zone. He could work well as the setup man for Kesler.

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01-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Aye, if that were the deal. It would have happened by now. The second is likely a point of contention. I suspect Gillis' end game is Kadri plus two of Kulemn/Bozak/Finn/Frattin/1st
kadri frattin bozak? deal keep the picks get a goalie

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Old
01-11-2013, 01:58 PM
  #58
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Vancouver fans, remember why we moved Grabner?

It wasn't because he was completely useless, it was because if he didn't make the Canucks in 2010-2011 we'd have to put him on waivers to get him down to the AHL.

The same situation will happen with Kadri, his ELC is done after this season.

If he is acquired and doesn't earn a permanent roster spot next fall, he will be lost to waivers.

Plain and simple is horrendous asset management to acquire Bozak (UFA rental) and Kadri (unlikely to make the roster this season or next) and a 2nd round pick.

Would rather have depth in goal.

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Old
01-11-2013, 01:59 PM
  #59
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Sweet, we'll take Couture. Kthxbai. No takesiesbacksies.
Just to be clear - I am a Canucks fan. Couture probably isn't going to happen but what about Pavelski or Clowe?

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01-11-2013, 02:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
After the trade, I would love to know how many there was. It has been pretty insane.



Anyone who thinks this hasn't watched the two play, they are different style of players. Lucic is just one of the current great PF's but I would put it close to calling Kessel and Whitney because they are both small wingers. One being a goal scorer, and one being a set up guy.

I don't know why it bugs me, and who knows if Kassian will hit his ceiling, but its just not his style.

Anyway, I still maintain trade is for value of
Roster player
Good Prospect
first
It was more to make a point, then make an actual projection. I've seen Kassian a lot this year and I would agree that the playing styles aren't the same

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
From the Marlies games I've seen this year, he's shown good vision in the offensive zone. He could work well as the setup man for Kesler.
that was my train of though as well

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01-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #62
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I suspect the deal is going to be forced with Florida. I hope Gillis can avoid accepting Weaver or Jovanovski!

Goc, Clemmenson and a pick is about what I expect. This isn't a very good return, but Luongo is not a hot commodity. The Canucks do not have any goalies to speak of, who can back-up Schnieder. At this jucture that makes things difficult. They will almost have to accept a goalie as part of the return. Goc, at least, is useful and may save Higgins from centering the second line.

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01-11-2013, 02:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
From the Marlies games I've seen this year, he's shown good vision in the offensive zone. He could work well as the setup man for Kesler.
He has also developed into a decent player defensively. Nazem won't be responsible for many goals against and he'd be further insulated by playing with defensively responsible line mates.

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01-11-2013, 02:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
From the Marlies games I've seen this year, he's shown good vision in the offensive zone. He could work well as the setup man for Kesler.
I don't really see it. With Kes healthy my second line (ice time) is defensive forwards. My third line (ice time) is two PFs with Schroeder that is also the second unit PP.

Sedin Sedin Burr
Higgins Kesler Hansen
Booth Schroeder Kassian
Malhotra Lappy Wiese

This is how I see our lineup with everyone healthy and already Raymond is trade bait. Adding Kadri does not do much unless he takes Schroeder's spot. Next season he could take Higgins' spot and Jensen could mature in the AHL. This year....I just don't see a spot for him. Soooo......prioritize the first round pick.

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01-11-2013, 02:07 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
From the Marlies games I've seen this year, he's shown good vision in the offensive zone. He could work well as the setup man for Kesler.
Thanks for that. What about his defensive play? AV won't let him see the ice unless he can play both ways. Watching the Leaf's games last year he looked to float a fair amount.

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01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #66
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He has also developed into a decent player defensively. Nazem won't be responsible for many goals against and he'd be further insulated by playing with defensively responsible line mates.
Yes that is part of his game that has improved over the past few years. Dallas Eakins is a hell of a coach and will be an NHL coach in the future IMO and he has worked with Nazem with that part of his game. He's criticized Nazem in the past for it but late last season and this season he's given Kadri credit for becoming a better player in the defensive zone.

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01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #67
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Vancouver fans, remember why we moved Grabner?

It wasn't because he was completely useless, it was because if he didn't make the Canucks in 2010-2011 we'd have to put him on waivers to get him down to the AHL.

The same situation will happen with Kadri, his ELC is done after this season.

If he is acquired and doesn't earn a permanent roster spot next fall, he will be lost to waivers.

Plain and simple is horrendous asset management to acquire Bozak (UFA rental) and Kadri (unlikely to make the roster this season or next) and a 2nd round pick.

Would rather have depth in goal.
Good summary.

RE: Bozak, even if he wasn't a rental, when did this perception that Tyler Bozak actually has trade value start? His stats are entirely a product of being force-fed ice time on a team with little depth at center, and he is no stud defensively. Where does he fit on a contender? I just don't see it.

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01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
kadri frattin bozak? deal keep the picks get a goalie
Low end of the spectrum but not a necessarily bad deal. Do not be surprised if Gillis pushes for more though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Vancouver fans, remember why we moved Grabner?

It wasn't because he was completely useless, it was because if he didn't make the Canucks in 2010-2011 we'd have to put him on waivers to get him down to the AHL.

The same situation will happen with Kadri, his ELC is done after this season.

If he is acquired and doesn't earn a permanent roster spot next fall, he will be lost to waivers.

Plain and simple is horrendous asset management to acquire Bozak (UFA rental) and Kadri (unlikely to make the roster this season or next) and a 2nd round pick.

Would rather have depth in goal.
Kadri is a better prospect than Grabner projected to be. The latter was incredibly one-dimensional, with little to no puck awareness nor creativity beyond a laser wrist shot. His abrupt surge and subsequent decline in Long Island provides all the evidence we need to say his career will be nothing remarkable. Kadri may struggle defensively but has incredible versatility and demonstrates a rare playmaking ability whilst being a potential winger.

They are two very different players. I have no qualms taking a chance on Kadri. We have routinely developed unknowns into ideal two way players.

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01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #69
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Just to be clear - I am a Canucks fan. Couture probably isn't going to happen but what about Pavelski or Clowe?
You could probably get Clowe, I'd imagine that Pavelski is out of the question.

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01-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #70
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Thanks for that. What about his defensive play? AV won't let him see the ice unless he can play both ways. Watching the Leaf's games last year he looked to float a fair amount.
He's worked on it. Much improved. Kadri is starting to "get it" now. He's maturing and he's gone through some tough times here. Dallas Eakins has worked with him with that aspect and if he's moved to Vancouver I think he'll be a good piece for you guys. The guy can dangle!

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01-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Low end of the spectrum but not a necessarily bad deal.



Kadri is a better prospect than Grabner projected to be. The latter was incredibly one-dimensional, with little to no puck awareness nor creativity beyond a laser wrist shot. His abrupt surge and subsequent decline in Long Island provides all the evidence we need to say his career will be nothing remarkable. Kadri may struggle defensively but has incredible versatility and demonstrates a rare playmaking ability whilst being a potential winger.

They are two very different players. I have no qualms taking a chance on Kadri. We have routinely developed unknowns into ideal two way players.
If Kadri turned out to be as good an NHL'er as Grabner, I think most people would consider him to be a success. Different style of player but same level of quality IMO.

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01-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #72
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You could probably get Clowe, I'd imagine that Pavelski is out of the question.
I would be happy with Clowe staight up for Luongo as long as he can be extended for around the same money he is making now.

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01-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #73
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He's worked on it. Much improved.
Thanks. Kadri has some upside. My biggest reluctance with both him and Bozak is that I'm of the view that we need to get bigger to compete with the big boys like Boston and LA. We have good skill but size wise we're lacking, IMO. That's in part why I like Kassian as a prospect even though he has a long way to go. My priority in a trade would be to get one player with size rather than a few pieces and picks. I'd like to get one guy with size who could help the team long term. Of course, I know that every team including the Leafs are probably looking for the same thing so this may be a pipe dream.

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01-11-2013, 02:15 PM
  #74
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Good summary.

RE: Bozak, even if he wasn't a rental, when did this perception that Tyler Bozak actually has trade value start? His stats are entirely a product of being force-fed ice time on a team with little depth at center, and he is no stud defensively. Where does he fit on a contender? I just don't see it.
I think this perception is by those who are looking more at the numbers than anything else. Bozak has allowed Kessel to be the player he is. Connolly, Lombardi, Grabovski, Steckel and a number of lesser names have been tried with Kessel... none of them allowed Kessel to succeed the way he has. He may not look great, and you can't really say he does anything in particular exceptional, but he is one of those guys who allows others around him to be better.

Where he fits is a decent #3, great in the face off dot, who has the capacity at a reasonable contract to play up as a #1 or #2 if there are injuries. Kesler goes out, he can effectively fill that spot. He's done it before, and allowed those to be successful.

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01-11-2013, 02:15 PM
  #75
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Kadri is a better prospect than Grabner projected to be. The latter was incredibly one-dimensional, with little to no puck awareness nor creativity beyond a laser wrist shot. His abrupt surge and subsequent decline in Long Island provides all the evidence we need to say his career will be nothing remarkable. Kadri may struggle defensively but has incredible versatility and demonstrates a rare playmaking ability whilst being a potential winger.

They are two very different players. I have no qualms taking a chance on Kadri. We have routinely developed unknowns into ideal two way players.
Did you read my post?

I didn't compare the players, I compared the situations/circumstances.

If kadri is acquired, and fails to make the opening night roster for next season (2013-2014) he'll have to be put on waivers to get him down to the AHL. At that point, he'll likely be claimed by a lesser team, hoping he can do what Grabner did for the Isles when they claimed him, after Florida waived him.

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