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Kessel to Flyers

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01-11-2013, 01:00 PM
  #101
capitalsrock
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
i wouldnt even do couturier for kessel straight up

yeah i said it
Homerism at it's best. This is hilarious. 3rd/4th liner for 1st liner.

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01-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #102
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Wouldn't do Couturier for Kessel straight up? Makes sense that Flyers would rather opt for a solid defensive forward with the potential to be more, but trade value wise, Kessel should easily get that sort of a return. IMHO

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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I see a lot of people claiming that Kessel would be so great with Giroux because he is a #1 center, you guys must see a different player than I do.

Kessel is what he is and gets his points no matter who he plays with, sure there would probably be a marginal increase in scoring, but I get the feeling it won't be dramatic like James Neal with Malkin.

I also don't see Kessel as a player Philly would be looking to add, like numerous people have said, Philly needs a #1 D not to add a defensively weak player to a defensively weak team.

It might be fun to watch them play Pittsburgh, but they wouldn't fare as well against the good defensive teams who also have some offense.
What makes you say that? Kessel dramatically increased his point per game average (over a PPG) ever since Lupul replaced the Crabbs/Frattins on his line.

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01-11-2013, 01:02 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Homerism at it's best. This is hilarious. 3rd/4th liner for 1st liner.
lol. Couturier is only 20, and is already looking like he can be an elite defensive player in this league.

I wouldn't do Couturier for Kessel straight up either.

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01-11-2013, 01:05 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Darcy Tucker View Post
do people not realize how hard it is to be a PPG player in todays NHL? and how many players have put up as many consecutive 30 goal seasons as Kessel? not many.

people not wanting to trade their forward prospect for a top 10 scorer who is 25 is absurd.

half this thread is full of posts with 0 credibility.
Not really a prospect anymore considering he played a full season in the NHL.

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01-11-2013, 01:07 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I don't think Philly does this. Their issue is not scoring goals. There's probably little motivation to move Couturier + for a year and a half of Kessel. IMO if they're moving that a #1 D-man is coming back.
This bothers me (I don't know why).

It's not a year and a half of Kessel... it's 2 FULL seasons. Entire seasons. Start to finish. From game 1 through to the end of the playoffs.

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01-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
lol. Couturier is only 20, and is already looking like he can be an elite defensive player in this league.

I wouldn't do Couturier for Kessel straight up either.
I realize he is a fan favorite but come on. I don't think you can tell if they are going to be elite by going by one season. He will never be more than a 3rd liner on Philly as the lineup stands and it is and obvious yes from Philly to get the elite 1st line sniper who would give Giroux an actual 1st liner to play with. Kessel is only 25 too.

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01-11-2013, 01:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
Not really a prospect anymore considering he played a full season in the NHL.


a 20 year old whos proven nothing is still a prospect, regardless of his bottom 6 duty last season.

he is no where near the value of Kessel who is a proven 80+ point player. hes not even your best forward prospect. yet somehow hes enough to land our franchise sniper...

get real , this is just embarassing to hockey fans as a whole.

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01-11-2013, 01:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
lol. Couturier is only 20, and is already looking like he can be an elite defensive player in this league.

I wouldn't do Couturier for Kessel straight up either.
Elite defensive forward doesn't only holds true value if you can produce at top 6 levels - ie. Datsyuk. Elite defensive forward is still a 3rd line center unless you can produce. And 3rd liners are worth top 5 scorers. Come back when can put up 60+ points.

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01-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
I realize he is a fan favorite but come on. I don't think you can tell if they are going to be elite by going by one season. He will never be more than a 3rd liner on Philly as the lineup stands and it is and obvious yes from Philly to get the elite 1st line sniper who would give Giroux an actual 1st liner to play with. Kessel is only 25 too.
Wrong. Schenn has been playing LW since he has put on a Flyers Sweater. Briere is not going to be here very much longer. He will be the 2C behind Giroux and Schenn will be on either his line or Girouxs. Laughton is the 3C of the future. I'm going to go ahead and say I wouldn't trade Couturier for Kessel straight up either. It's not about points or who is the better player. But in the division we play in we need at least one guy who has the defensive capabilities he does to play against Pitt, NYR, NJ, and NYI. Giroux is going to make any body he plays with into a first line forward. And btw Hartnell and Voracek are no slouches either. Our forward group is fine as is. We need D not more goals. Not to mention Kessel's cap hit vs Couturier's significantly reduces the moves we can make in bringing in another defensemen.

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01-11-2013, 01:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post

but seriously, i wouldn't do Couturier for Kessel straight up,
Lol. Flyers fans. Too good lol.

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01-11-2013, 01:39 PM
  #111
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We don't need more offense. We need more defense. Couturier is our best defensive forward and it isn't close. Trading him for Kessel doesn't address any needs for Philly, and actually aggravates an area where we're already sore. We also don't know what his offensive upside is either.

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01-11-2013, 01:40 PM
  #112
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You win with players like Couturier. I dont know if you can win with players like kessel

I wouldn't do this trade straight up. You look at the flyers needs and kessel provides nothing new. he is one dimensional, an elite dimension at that but still what else does he do. I dont know if he can produce in the playoffs where the games are more physical.


Kessel has more value right now that couturier but i still would not do the deal because the flyers are not a team that needs value they need the right pieces. Kessel is not the right piece for us.

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01-11-2013, 01:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Lol. Flyers fans. Too good lol.
It's a pretty reasonable stance. That team as its currently constructed really can't afford to add a $7 million winger.

There's definitely an argument to be made that 5 years of Couturier plus ~$5 million in cap space this year and next is more valuable to them than 2 years of Kessel.

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01-11-2013, 01:52 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
You win with players like Couturier. I dont know if you can win with players like kessel

I wouldn't do this trade straight up. You look at the flyers needs and kessel provides nothing new. he is one dimensional, an elite dimension at that but still what else does he do. I dont know if he can produce in the playoffs where the games are more physical.


Kessel has more value right now that couturier but i still would not do the deal because the flyers are not a team that needs value they need the right pieces. Kessel is not the right piece for us.
Kessel is PPG for the Bruins in the playoffs I believe.

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01-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Homerism at it's best. This is hilarious. 3rd/4th liner for 1st liner.
Look at where Couturier was at 19 and check out where Kessel was then.

Kessel wouldn't have half the value he had if Burke didn't give up so much for him. His value is of a 35 goal PPG player who is as one dimensional as they come and has two seasons left on his contract. Semin, Carter or Ryan ballpark.

I take Couturier without a second thought unless I want a cup in the next two years and a one shot sniper is the missing piece.

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01-11-2013, 02:04 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Homerism at it's best. This is hilarious. 3rd/4th liner for 1st liner.
It's more of a matter of what the player brings to the team. I understand why Philly fans wouldn't want to do this. Barring some serious dip in offensive output, they have really no issues at the top-six LW/RW positions going forward with Hartnell, Voracek, Simmonds locked up long-term, and with Read and Wellwood looking like they could be solid 3rd liners, maybe even 2nd liners. Yes, they are not offensive juggernauts, but with Giroux probably producing like a madman and Schenn projected to be pretty good as a 2nd line pivot (and much happier since he's playing with his brother), I don't see Philly's offensive output being an issue since each of those players is good for 20+ goals, if not more. Hence, I don't see them having an imperative need now for a scoring winger now and deal away a young elite defensive pivot (projected) so prematurely to acquire one.

To summarize, it's not as simplistic as a "3rd/4th liner for a 1st liner," as you put it.

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01-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
You win with players like Couturier. I dont know if you can win with players like kessel
Fact: the Bruins only won that year because they traded Kessel.

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01-11-2013, 02:13 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Absolutely terrible for Florida and Vancouver.
Forgive me for bringing up a post from yesterday, but how is this terrible for Florida? I'm not saying it isn't a stupid proposal, but it's Markstrom and Huberdeau for Luongo and Kessel. Luongo and Kessel are the players Markstrom and Huberdeau want to be when they grow up. A trade like that would make Florida a legit contender.

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01-11-2013, 02:17 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Forgive me for bringing up a post from yesterday, but how is this terrible for Florida? I'm not saying it isn't a stupid proposal, but it's Markstrom and Huberdeau for Luongo and Kessel. Luongo and Kessel are the players Markstrom and Kessel want to be when they grow up. A trade like that would make Florida a legit contender.
What does Florida realistically plan on winning in the next two years that necessitates A) committing huge dollars and term to Luongo rather than waiting on Markstrom, and B) bringing Kessel in for the short term. Realistically, these guys aren't the last piece to the puzzle in Florida. Great players, wrong fit, IMO.

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01-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Fact: the Bruins only won that year because they traded Kessel.
They're definitely set very well for the future with Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight, but dealing away Kessel was not the reason they won that year. That's a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. If you're referring to Seguin's heroics against TB at a vital juncture in that series and his 7 points in 13 games, then let me remind you that Kessel has 15 points in 15 playoff games with the Bruins. That's not chopped-liver by any stretch of the imagination. That said, why didn't they win in 2009-10? Why would they realize they were missing some offense as a result of collapsing from a 3-0 lead against the Flyers and then trade for Norton- a right shooting RW (sound familiar?)- before the 2010-11 season?

If you ask me, a major reason they won that year was their ability to stay healthy in the playoffs...barring the Horton concussion.


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01-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
What does Florida realistically plan on winning in the next two years that necessitates A) committing huge dollars and term to Luongo rather than waiting on Markstrom, and B) bringing Kessel in for the short term. Realistically, these guys aren't the last piece to the puzzle in Florida. Great players, wrong fit, IMO.
1. Luongo is a great starter now with a handful of elite seasons left in the tank. Markstrom is a very promising player, but there is no guarantee he will ever even be half the goalie Luongo is. Goalie is the most unpredictable position in all of sports, there are no safe bets with young netminders.

2. Florida would be a great fit for Kessel, he would be off the radar of scrutinizing Toronto media, and would get to play with a fantastic center in Weiss. Huberdeau is one of the best prospects in the world, but he is still just that, a prospect yet to play a single NHL game.

Purely looking at it value-wise it is ridiculous, the return on Kessel alone would bring in more than Huberdeau + Markstrom. Tallon would be fired on the spot if he turned down such an offer.

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01-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Purely looking at it value-wise it is ridiculous, the return on Kessel alone would bring in more than Huberdeau + Markstrom.


That's a hell of a lot more valuable than the two 1sts and a 2nd he was dealt for 3 years ago

I won't speak for Florida fans, but I'd wager most, if not all, would decline to part with Huberdeau and Markstrom for Luongo and two years of Kessel. Would the Leafs part with Rielly and Gardiner for Luongo and Edler?

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01-11-2013, 02:50 PM
  #123
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Lol. Flyers fans. Too good lol.
LOL maple leafs fans, missing the point. too expected.

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01-11-2013, 02:55 PM
  #124
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the Flyers didn't want to give up Couturier in order to get Weber. Do you think they would move Couturier in order to get Kessel?

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01-11-2013, 03:20 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Homerism at it's best. This is hilarious. 3rd/4th liner for 1st liner.
see

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Look at where Couturier was at 19 and check out where Kessel was then.

Kessel wouldn't have half the value he had if Burke didn't give up so much for him. His value is of a 35 goal PPG player who is as one dimensional as they come and has two seasons left on his contract. Semin, Carter or Ryan ballpark.

I take Couturier without a second thought unless I want a cup in the next two years and a one shot sniper is the missing piece.
kessel is a good player, couturier at 19 was a stud all year on the 4th line

we don't need players like kessel, we need complete players like couturier with tremendous potential. kessel is obviously more valuable right now but in a few years i don't think it'll be close

so yeah im a flyers fan and i like couturier, but it's just logic in the end for what the flyers need

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