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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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01-11-2013, 02:16 PM
  #76
Numbers
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Vancouver fans, remember why we moved Grabner?

It wasn't because he was completely useless, it was because if he didn't make the Canucks in 2010-2011 we'd have to put him on waivers to get him down to the AHL.

The same situation will happen with Kadri, his ELC is done after this season.

If he is acquired and doesn't earn a permanent roster spot next fall, he will be lost to waivers.

Plain and simple is horrendous asset management to acquire Bozak (UFA rental) and Kadri (unlikely to make the roster this season or next) and a 2nd round pick.

Would rather have depth in goal.
Well with the new CBA the situation is different. There are no re-entry waivers, so Canucks would not lose him that way, but his salary would count against the cap if he is qualified.

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01-11-2013, 02:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
If Kadri turned out to be as good an NHL'er as Grabner, I think most people would consider him to be a success. Different style of player but same level of quality IMO.
I believe Kadri has the tools to be better. With the proper mentoring and system, my personal projection is an offensive oriented center reaching the 60ish point bracket.

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01-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Did you read my post?

I didn't compare the players, I compared the situations/circumstances.

If kadri is acquired, and fails to make the opening night roster for next season (2013-2014) he'll have to be put on waivers to get him down to the AHL. At that point, he'll likely be claimed by a lesser team, hoping he can do what Grabner did for the Isles when they claimed him, after Florida waived him.
I did. My point was I do not see it being a problem. He would make the team, especially absent of Raymond, Malhotra and possibly Higgins should he outprice himself.

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01-11-2013, 02:18 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Well with the new CBA the situation is different. There are no re-entry waivers, so Canucks would not lose him that way, but his salary would count against the cap if he is qualified.
I'm not talking about re-entry, I'm talking about sending him down.

There is still regular waivers.

He can be plucked on the way down, that is my point.

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01-11-2013, 02:19 PM
  #80
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Thanks. Kadri has some upside. My biggest reluctance with both him and Bozak is that I'm of the view that we need to get bigger to compete with the big boys like Boston and LA. We have good skill but size wise we're lacking, IMO. That's in part why I like Kassian as a prospect even though he has a long way to go. My priority in a trade would be to get one player with size rather than a few pieces and picks. I'd like to get one guy with size who could help the team long term. Of course, I know that every team including the Leafs are probably looking for the same thing so this may be a pipe dream.
As much as I give credit to Kadri for improving his defensive game, his size will always be an issue IMO. He's 185 pounds..and he tends to get pushed around a bit along the boards.

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01-11-2013, 02:20 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
I did. My point was I do not see it being a problem. He would make the team, especially absent of Raymond, Malhotra and possibly Higgins should he outprice himself.
Really, we've been force fed a number of Marlies games on sportsnet so far this season, and nothing about his game screams making the show this year or next.

Lives and dies on the PP at the AHL level. Floats at EV strength.

Kadri isn't a shoe to make the Leafs this year, why would he make a better team?

I still don't get it.

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01-11-2013, 02:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
As much as I give credit to Kadri for improving his defensive game, his size will always be an issue IMO. He's 185 pounds..and he tends to get pushed around a bit along the boards.
Gillis made the statement about getting younger and bigger... doesn't sound like Kadri or Bozak would help there.


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Kadri isn't a shoe to make the Leafs this year, why would he make a better team?
He makes the Leafs better by being traded for Luongo!

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01-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #83
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Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kulemin
Higgins - Kadri - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Lapierre

Not a bad mix, although I'd like to get Frattin involved.

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01-11-2013, 02:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
As much as I give credit to Kadri for improving his defensive game, his size will always be an issue IMO. He's 185 pounds..and he tends to get pushed around a bit along the boards.
The guy I really wanted was Bjugstad!
Unfortunately Dale Tallon isn't Mike Milbury.

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01-11-2013, 02:26 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Really, we've been force fed a number of Marlies games on sportsnet so far this season, and nothing about his game screams making the show this year or next.

Lives and dies on the PP at the AHL level. Floats at EV strength.

Kadri isn't a shoe to make the Leafs this year, why would he make a better team?

I still don't get it.
Different teams, different philosophies. Grabovski was considered nothing by Hab management, yet look what happened when they threw him to Toronto. Kadri has no confidence and is in need of a scenery change. In Vancouver he would not be relied upon anywhere near as heavily and be allotted the chance to prove himself, whereasin Toronto they pushed him far too early out of necessity.

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01-11-2013, 02:26 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kulemin
Higgins - Kadri - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Lapierre

Not a bad mix, although I'd like to get Frattin involved.
Kulemin to me is intriguing as is Frattin.

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01-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Really, we've been force fed a number of Marlies games on sportsnet so far this season, and nothing about his game screams making the show this year or next.

Lives and dies on the PP at the AHL level. Floats at EV strength.

Kadri isn't a shoe to make the Leafs this year, why would he make a better team?

I still don't get it.
I too am questioning why so many of us, on both sides, believe Kadri will be included. As a roster player, I'd have to rate him very lowly, as a prospect, much higher, in terms of value to us. Yes, he could make the team covering for Kesler...and then what? He will be out played by one of Hansen, Higgins, Raymond, Schroeder or Kassian for that 2W spot, and then what? If we lose Raymond and Higgins to free agency, assuming there isn't a huge improvement in all elements of his play, that's the only way I see Kadri making our team next year, barring unforseen trades, injuries or retirements. That's not a knock against Kadri, but he'd be, at best, in the same boat as Kulemin, MacArthur and others we are passing on due to their not being a definitive upgrade on our current roster.

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01-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kulemin
Higgins - Kadri - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Lapierre

Not a bad mix, although I'd like to get Frattin involved.
The Canucks traded Hodgson because they didn't want a 3rd line C, who needed to be sheltered.

Jordan Schoreder is a better EV strength producer than Kadri in the AHL, and plays defense, and plays hard for 200ft.

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01-11-2013, 02:28 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kulemin
Higgins - Kadri - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Lapierre

Not a bad mix, although I'd like to get Frattin involved.
Nikolai Kulemin is going to turn it around this year. He probably won't hit 30 goals in a full year again, but he'll top out as a 25-25 guy. To get that kind of asset, along with his amazing defensive play, for Roberto Luongo would be considered a coup by Mike Gillis.

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01-11-2013, 02:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Different teams, different philosophies. Grabovski was considered nothing by Hab management, yet look what happened when they threw him to Toronto. Kadri has no confidence and is in need of a scenery change. In Vancouver he would not be relied upon anywhere near as heavily and be allotted the chance to prove himself, whereasin Toronto they pushed him far too early out of necessity.
Again unfair, its easier to move Grabo than both Kostitsyn's.

Kadri hasn't been pushed in Toronto, he isn't good enough to make the team and be pushed.

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01-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #91
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The guy I really wanted was Bjugstad!
Unfortunately Dale Tallon isn't Mike Milbury.
I'd settle for Shore as part of a package too. Guy's big and talented, not too slow...a BIG center for our 2C/3C of the future.

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01-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
The Canucks traded Hodgson because they didn't want a 3rd line C, who needed to be sheltered.

Jordan Schoreder is a better EV strength producer than Kadri in the AHL, and plays defense, and plays hard for 200ft.
Agreed. I'd think that even Andrew Ebbett has a better chance at the third line center than Kadri would. One of Ebbett or Schroeder will at least get a few games if we don't pick up a third line center in the Luongo trade.

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01-11-2013, 02:34 PM
  #93
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I suspect the deal is going to be forced with Florida. I hope Gillis can avoid accepting Weaver or Jovanovski!

Goc, Clemmenson and a pick is about what I expect. This isn't a very good return, but Luongo is not a hot commodity. The Canucks do not have any goalies to speak of, who can back-up Schnieder. At this jucture that makes things difficult. They will almost have to accept a goalie as part of the return. Goc, at least, is useful and may save Higgins from centering the second line.
So you assume Luongo is not telling the truth when he says he's open to other teams and whatever is best for the Canuck's? I'm shocked.

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01-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #94
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So you assume Luongo is not telling the truth when he says he's open to other teams and whatever is best for the Canuck's? I'm shocked.
Also how do you force a trade? lol

Gillis " Look Dale, take Luongo!

Tallon " No your price is too high."

Gillis " I said TAKE HIM!!"

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01-11-2013, 02:37 PM
  #95
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So you assume Luongo is not telling the truth when he says he's open to other teams and whatever is best for the Canuck's? I'm shocked.
Still don't think Luongo risks being waived if he declines trades. A NTC controls where he goes but can still be moved to the AHL and picked up off waivers. That's leverage to open him up to go to teams that aren't on the top of his list.

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01-11-2013, 02:37 PM
  #96
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So you assume Luongo is not telling the truth when he says he's open to other teams and whatever is best for the Canuck's? I'm shocked.
I think that if the offers from both TO and Florida are close that Gillis will respect Luongo's wish to play close to home. If there is a significant difference then I think Luongo would be happy to play in Toronto for an original 6 team with Nonis whom he respects as a GM. Luongo and Nonis have a history and people also need to remember that he is from Montreal.

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01-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #97
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Still don't think Luongo risks being waived if he declines trades. A NTC controls where he goes but can still be moved to the AHL and picked up off waivers. That's leverage to open him up to go to teams that aren't on the top of his list.
And if he's not picked up off of waivers, he's literally a $4.4m/year deadweight.

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01-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #98
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I think that if the offers from both TO and Florida are close that Gillis will respect Luongo's wish to play close to home. If there is a significant difference then I think Luongo would be happy to play in Toronto for an original 6 team with Nonis whom he respects as a GM. Luongo and Nonis have a history and people also need to remember that he is from Montreal.
This i totally agree with. I just don't see Tallon offering anything close to what Gillis is seeking. That and salary would have to go back.

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01-11-2013, 02:46 PM
  #99
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This i totally agree with. I just don't see Tallon offering anything close to what Gillis is seeking. That and salary would have to go back.
What iis Gillis seeking?
So far, all I have heard is leaks from the Leafs, Toronto media, and other teams as to what he is seeking and how the price is outrageous. I take all of that with a grain of salt. For example, it's in Nonis' interest to spread the rumour that Gillis is asking for Gardiner and a 1st. That way if he gets him for a lower price he looks like a genius or if he fails to pick up Luongo and his goaltending flounders ge can always say we just weren't willing to mortgage the future.
Gillis has been close mouthed as usual on any trade talk.

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01-11-2013, 02:47 PM
  #100
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And if he's not picked up off of waivers, he's literally a $4.4m/year deadweight.
I am willing to put money that out of 29 other teams, 1 of them could use a goalie like Luongo. Likely CBJ / EDM being front runners.

If for some bizarre reason he doesn't get picked up, Chicago Wolves games just got a whole lot more interesting

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