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Old
01-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
This is BS. Unsigned players never take part in team activities.
I think it's a choice, it's not a rule or a "non-written" rule. I personally understand where the team is coming from when they say that Subban should be with them. Technically he's not part of the team, but Bergevin stated multiple times that Subban was part of the future of the team and that he'll be playing hockey in Montreal for a long time.

If I was Subban, I'd be skating with the team, because I know the organization and the city wants me. And there's no doubt in my mind that Subban loves his team and the city. IMO, it's all part of the strategy in the negociation of his contract.

I never really understood why there was a lot of criticism from his teammates towards him, but I do agree that this time, he's coming off a bit as a "me first, team second" kind of guy.

But even then, trading him 'cause of that, this early in his career, would be potentially regretful in the future.

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01-11-2013, 02:24 PM
  #527
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I think this idea of structure, if it's true, is a bad idea because it's better to think strategically instead of being so rigid.

I don't see up being a Cup contender in the next two years so why wouldn't we want to pay Subban more cap hit then he's worth in those two years if it means that we can have him with a lower cap hit in years 4, 5 and 6 in his contract.

Plus, I don't see how we win in this situation, it's a stupid battle with nothing to gain and plenty to lose.
I understand your point of view and frankly I tend (not completely: I think Bergevin must stick with his plan) to agree with you so, to a certain degree, I have to play the devil advocate here.

(1) There is a risk associated with giving an "unproven" player a long terms deal
(2) Subban is a RFA; he does not have a lot of power.

Regarding "I think this idea of structure, if it's true...". If I have the time, I will provide you with a link or two: Bergevin talked on numerous occasions about the importance of the team contractual structure.

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Martin McGuire, a respected journalist from http://www.985sports.ca/, mentioned in his daily camp update (audio file available), that some players seem a little bit annoyed by the fact that Subban decided to stay in Toronto. According to McGuire, they are under the impression that he should be skating with them or, at least, participate in off-ice activities.

Gionta was more direct. Apparently the Habs players played for charity during the lockout but Subban preferred to play in a charity event in Toronto. It did bug Gionta.
You can disagree with the players but unless you are calling McGuire a liar, this is not stupid rumors and/or bad hearsay.

Personally, I respect Martin McGuire and I think he is telling the truth. Is it a big deal? I don't think so but apparently the players think that Subban should make an effort to reinforce his "team first" attitude.
And that still doesn't contradict what I said. Yet again, we're finding every reason and every excuse possible to villainize one of our good players. They come along so rarely you'd think we'd cherish them but instead, here we are, bending over backwards to find things with which we can knock down Subban.

All we have is a mangled Gionta quote (which, when I read it, again sounded like he was clearly joking about finding Subban a media gig in Montreal) and whispers from McGuire that the players are annoyed. Think about how silly that is.

And it's 100% stemming from the fact that he doesn't have a contract and people are looking for a story. If he had a contract but everything else stayed the same (spending time in Toronto, not joining the Habs in the charity games), we wouldn't hear a peep of it.

It's just...silly. That's the only word for it. And he hasn't missed a single game with his so-called "hold out". So what are we talking about, really?

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:48 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And that still doesn't contradict what I said. Yet again, we're finding every reason and every excuse possible to villainize one of our good players. They come along so rarely you'd think we'd cherish them but instead, here we are, bending over backwards to find things with which we can knock down Subban.

All we have is a mangled Gionta quote (which, when I read it, again sounded like he was clearly joking about finding Subban a media gig in Montreal) and whispers from McGuire that the players are annoyed. Think about how silly that is.

And it's 100% stemming from the fact that he doesn't have a contract and people are looking for a story. If he had a contract but everything else stayed the same (spending time in Toronto, not joining the Habs in the charity games), we wouldn't hear a peep of it.

It's just...silly. That's the only word for it. And he hasn't missed a single game with his so-called "hold out". So what are we talking about, really?

All this negative PK talk reminds y of the grief Kane gets in Winnipeg for some reason. You'd think the media would portray their better, core players in a more positive light rather than crap on them any time something MIGHT be an issue. Fans not much better for listening to a handfull of idiots trying to sell papers and making a name for themselves.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...medium=twitter

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:49 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And that still doesn't contradict what I said. Yet again, we're finding every reason and every excuse possible to villainize one of our good players. They come along so rarely you'd think we'd cherish them but instead, here we are, bending over backwards to find things with which we can knock down Subban.

All we have is a mangled Gionta quote (which, when I read it, again sounded like he was clearly joking about finding Subban a media gig in Montreal) and whispers from McGuire that the players are annoyed. Think about how silly that is.

And it's 100% stemming from the fact that he doesn't have a contract and people are looking for a story. If he had a contract but everything else stayed the same (spending time in Toronto, not joining the Habs in the charity games), we wouldn't hear a peep of it.

It's just...silly. That's the only word for it. And he hasn't missed a single game with his so-called "hold out". So what are we talking about, really?


Subban is telling me ("talking about") he is too good for the contracts our other young players have signed. Price and Pac. Could they have not signed? Sure, but they want to win and play. PK? Not so sure at this point. And, this is only an observation on my part.

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01-11-2013, 02:51 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
I think it's a choice, it's not a rule or a "non-written" rule. I personally understand where the team is coming from when they say that Subban should be with them. Technically he's not part of the team, but Bergevin stated multiple times that Subban was part of the future of the team and that he'll be playing hockey in Montreal for a long time.

If I was Subban, I'd be skating with the team, because I know the organization and the city wants me. And there's no doubt in my mind that Subban loves his team and the city. IMO, it's all part of the strategy in the negociation of his contract.

I never really understood why there was a lot of criticism from his teammates towards him, but I do agree that this time, he's coming off a bit as a "me first, team second" kind of guy.

But even then, trading him 'cause of that, this early in his career, would be potentially regretful in the future.
I agree

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
All this negative PK talk reminds y of the grief Kane gets in Winnipeg for some reason. You'd think the media would portray their better, core players in a more positive light rather than crap on them any time something MIGHT be an issue. Fans not much better for listening to a handfull of idiots trying to sell papers and making a name for themselves.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...medium=twitter
But then again, players have to be accountable for their actions. If some player was involved in a DUI case and the media wouldn't report it, we'd be complaining that the media is hiding stuff from us and that the players are hypocrites.

Athletes are not obliged to serve as moral role models.

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Old
01-11-2013, 02:58 PM
  #533
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People should remember that even though there has been no announcement of a deal, this could be simply because teams cannot announce transactions/signings until the players ratify. There is nothing anywhere stating that an agreement hasn't already been reached between the team and PK, even though it's quite possible they still haven't come to an agreement. people could be worried for nothing

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01-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #534
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It's pretty ridiculous and sad how anything Subban does or doesn't do, becomes such a big deal.

If Subban is at home, it's most likely under the advice of his agent...furthermore, it's nothing new, it happens ALL THE TIME in situations like this.

Why would his agent want his client in Montreal while he's trying to negotiate the best deal possible for him?

I don't get why fans/media take it so personally when teams/players get in contract negotiations.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Myron Gaines View Post
But then again, players have to be accountable for their actions. If some player was involved in a DUI case and the media wouldn't report it, we'd be complaining that the media is hiding stuff from us and that the players are hypocrites.

Athletes are not obliged to serve as moral role models.
There's a fundamental difference between comitting a crime or actually doing something wrong and *****ing about a player for no apparent reason. That's the difference.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:02 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
All this negative PK talk reminds y of the grief Kane gets in Winnipeg for some reason.
And I hate to say it...but I think racism plays a part in both cases, unfortunately.

Letang skated a lot with the Habs guys in the Montreal area the last few weeks, even earlier this week...will fans or players in PIT be pissed? Not that different than Subban still being in Toronto, IMO.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:05 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
Subban is telling me ("talking about") he is too good for the contracts our other young players have signed. Price and Pac. Could they have not signed? Sure, but they want to win and play. PK? Not so sure at this point. And, this is only an observation on my part.
I don't want to get into the number crunching and stats quoting, but you can easily argue that Subban accomplished much more for the Habs under his ELC than Price or Pacioretty did. Hell, in this thread alone you have people calling him a "stud" and a number one defenseman...and those same people are expecting him to just accept the first offer the Habs put on the table? Why?

And as I said before, Price "held out" on signing his contract until September 2nd. Subban had until September 14th to sign before the CBA expired and didn't (along with other notable RFAs, let's not act like he's the only one), so realistically, how much longer has he held out in comparison to Price? Two weeks? Granted, it's amplified because there's a mad scramble to start the season, but that doesn't change that he's still negotiating a contract all the same.

People on this board seem to think there's only one side to a negotiation, and that as soon as a player takes longer than our little preconceived notions of when a they should be signed by, he's branded a greedy player who puts himself before the team.

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01-11-2013, 03:05 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
And I hate to say it...but I think racism plays a part in both cases, unfortunately.

Letang skated a lot with the Habs guys in the Montreal area the last few weeks, even earlier this week...will fans or players in PIT be pissed? Not that different than Subban still being in Toronto, IMO.
Letang doesn't get grief for that, Cole essentially makes the same threat Kovalchuk made about losing money, and you don't see the same outroar.

Race and nationality in hockey...anyone who is different is distrusted as a selfish outsider.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:08 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
And I hate to say it...but I think racism plays a part in both cases, unfortunately.

Letang skated a lot with the Habs guys in the Montreal area the last few weeks, even earlier this week...will fans or players in PIT be pissed? Not that different than Subban still being in Toronto, IMO.
What I'd like to know is if Del Zotto, Benn, Kulikov and O'Reilly are getting as rough a ride with their fanbase as Subban is getting from us.

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01-11-2013, 03:10 PM
  #540
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This thread is exactly what the media wanted.

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01-11-2013, 03:15 PM
  #541
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There's a fundamental difference between comitting a crime or actually doing something wrong and *****ing about a player for no apparent reason. That's the difference.
The difference in what you just stated is that one is an action by someone and the other is the backlash of an action by someone.

I just don't think that because you're a hockey player, you should never have to face criticism and speculation. Now, there are unfair cases were the criticism and speculation is uncalled for, but in this case, P.K. took a decision that is debatable and that rightfully uprises question marks from the media and also the fans.

I wasn't comparing a DUI to not skating with your team despite not being signed, but rather the decision he's taken and the consequences that come with it. It's not a crime what he did, but it is morally debatable and I bet you he's perfectly aware of it and okay with it. That's all.

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01-11-2013, 03:17 PM
  #542
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This thread is exactly what the media wanted.
What Geoff Molson wants too.

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01-11-2013, 03:19 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I don't want to get into the number crunching and stats quoting, but you can easily argue that Subban accomplished much more for the Habs under his ELC than Price or Pacioretty did. Hell, in this thread alone you have people calling him a "stud" and a number one defenseman...and those same people are expecting him to just accept the first offer the Habs put on the table? Why?

And as I said before, Price "held out" on signing his contract until September 2nd. Subban had until September 14th to sign before the CBA expired and didn't (along with other notable RFAs, let's not act like he's the only one), so realistically, how much longer has he held out in comparison to Price? Two weeks? Granted, it's amplified because there's a mad scramble to start the season, but that doesn't change that he's still negotiating a contract all the same.

People on this board seem to think there's only one side to a negotiation, and that as soon as a player takes longer than our little preconceived notions of when a they should be signed by, he's branded a greedy player who puts himself before the team.
Yes... my master (mechanical breathe)

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01-11-2013, 03:20 PM
  #544
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James Stephan ‏@J_Habs
Rumor circulating that Subban will sign a 4 yr 22mil deal on Sunday #Habs courtesy of TSN Radio 690

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01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
  #545
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James Stephan ‏@J_Habs
Rumor circulating that Subban will sign a 4 yr 22mil deal on Sunday #Habs courtesy of TSN Radio 690

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01-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #546
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James Stephan ‏@J_Habs
Rumor circulating that Subban will sign a 4 yr 22mil deal on Sunday #Habs courtesy of TSN Radio 690
We give him UFA after 4y?

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01-11-2013, 03:28 PM
  #547
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James Stephan ‏@J_Habs
Rumor circulating that Subban will sign a 4 yr 22mil deal on Sunday #Habs courtesy of TSN Radio 690
4 years takes him right to UFA status... don't like this deal at all from a Habs POV. Go long or short, but not medium term.

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01-11-2013, 03:29 PM
  #548
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Awesome deal at $4.4 M per. SHows he really did want to play here.

So happy to hear it!

Mitch Melnick ‏@HunterZThompson
As per @InRodWeTrust990 @PKSubban1 gets 5 yrs 22 million #TSN690


Last edited by shutehinside: 01-11-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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01-11-2013, 03:29 PM
  #549
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James Stephan ‏@J_Habs
Rumor circulating that Subban will sign a 4 yr 22mil deal on Sunday #Habs courtesy of TSN Radio 690
Just heard Rod Francis say as much on 690. He has it on good authority, but is unwilling to confirm it as a done deal.

If true, it's a contract I can live with.

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Old
01-11-2013, 03:29 PM
  #550
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Yeah, heard that...Rod Francis brought it up and said he heard it from someone. He did not seem too convinced though.

This is not confirmed news, it was really more hearsay than anything.

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