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Teravainen vs Gaudreau

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01-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #226
TheBossman22
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For those of you that are saying TT had a great tournament, I found this interesting from Elliot Friedman's 30 Thoughts.

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over." Jonathan Huberdeau (Florida): He'd been trending upward for awhile, but had a nightmarish event

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ould-work.html

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01-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
For developing prospects it is, yeah. What's so crazy about that? That's why Russians come to Canada when they can play in a "men's league" instead. A much better men's league than SM-Liiga, might I add.
There are a couple of things to note here.

Firstly, whilst the OHL, WHL, NCAA etc produce more draft picks and NHL players than the SM-Liga, or any European league for that matter, we are discussing 18 yr old kids relative to seasoned professionals. The majority of players in the NCAA, OHL etc are not good enough to play in the considered elite level European leagues.

Secondly, the NCAA produces more NHL players, but that does not equate to better players by just that measurement. The NHL is a North American hockey league, which in general, has a very % of it's bottom tier players from North America. There are many many players who play in European leagues who could do similar roles as 3rd and 4th liners. European hockey also requires a different skillset, and all too often, North american posters are ignorant to this concept. Just because your a 3rd line grinder in the NHL, doesn't mean your better than an all-star KHL or SEL player. Some players simply don't translate well to the different style. There are many NHL players who would struggle in Europe, whilst some good AHL players propser, because it helps their style. Talent shouldn't be defined in such black and white terms. We similar things happen in the English Premier league ; not all can adapt, but that doesn't make them very talented in their own environment.

Gaudreau is definitely talented, but whilst Calgary fans would tell you otherwise, his size is an issue. He might overcome it, but it is still a huge issue. Pretending otherwise, and citing exceptions to the rule (and really, it gets tedious seeing St Louis cited everytime), doesn't change this fact. Like many other prospects, he is has interesting abilities but other issues to overcome.

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01-11-2013, 05:43 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
There are a couple of things to note here.

Firstly, whilst the OHL, WHL, NCAA etc produce more draft picks and NHL players than the SM-Liga, or any European league for that matter, we are discussing 18 yr old kids relative to seasoned professionals. The majority of players in the NCAA, OHL etc are not good enough to play in the considered elite level European leagues.
We're essentially discussing player development here. SM-Liiga being a tougher league is irrelevant when we're talking about which player will end up better. It's not about what league is tougher or more skilled; since we're talking about future NHL'ers, we're discussing which league is better at developing players for the NHL game. And in that sense it's absurd for the guy to take a shot at the OHL.

Also no Flames fan said that size isn't an issue for Gaudreau so I don't know where you pulled that one from. Unless you can find a single quote that says otherwise...

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01-11-2013, 07:29 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by TheBossman22 View Post
For those of you that are saying TT had a great tournament, I found this interesting from Elliot Friedman's 30 Thoughts.

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over." Jonathan Huberdeau (Florida): He'd been trending upward for awhile, but had a nightmarish event

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ould-work.html
Can you imagine when he's motivated!!!

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01-11-2013, 07:47 PM
  #230
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Size in junior never shows up, as the level of skill is so widespread that anyone with some slick hands and speed no matter size will be able to compete, however as levels go up dmen get faster and stronger and smaller players become less able to compete (bar the few exceptions to the rule who are creative enough to adapt their game to it) but as exceptions to rules should not make a rule the size argument is the real selling point,

Teravainen from my perspective (Although i dont see either being much more than a fringe offense only winger)

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01-11-2013, 07:52 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by outoftune View Post
Size in junior never shows up, as the level of skill is so widespread that anyone with some slick hands and speed no matter size will be able to compete, however as levels go up dmen get faster and stronger and smaller players become less able to compete (bar the few exceptions to the rule who are creative enough to adapt their game to it) but as exceptions to rules should not make a rule the size argument is the real selling point,

Teravainen from my perspective (Although i dont see either being much more than a fringe offense only winger)
No one's gonna argue that, but Gaudreau is obviously a very exceptional player.

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01-11-2013, 07:55 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
We're essentially discussing player development here. SM-Liiga being a tougher league is irrelevant when we're talking about which player will end up better. It's not about what league is tougher or more skilled; since we're talking about future NHL'ers, we're discussing which league is better at developing players for the NHL game. And in that sense it's absurd for the guy to take a shot at the OHL.

Also no Flames fan said that size isn't an issue for Gaudreau so I don't know where you pulled that one from. Unless you can find a single quote that says otherwise...
Sorry to post twice in a row, didn't see this first round..... The only time leagues come into play (of coarse this is only in reference to the leagues on par with eachother skillwise no junior C players in this (even if thats where horton came from)) is when players are playing above their level and because of it not receiving the icetime they need to grow into the players the will become.

Alot of high potential guys will get 20 mins a game in the O, W or Q with both pp and pk time included while alot of players in the european leagues jump in too early and play less than 15 a game while at the same time pushing them into a specific team needed role. In many cases it can (not always) stunt growth and force players to focus on one aspect of the game rather than rounding out their games giving less effect in the NHL.

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01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
No one's gonna argue that, but Gaudreau is obviously a very exceptional player.
Not going to lie the kid could compete in a phonebooth and i would trade teravainen for him in a junior league, but if its at the nhl level under 5'9 the odds are really against the kid

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01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Are you stupid? You linked me to a post saying he was 5'8, which is closer to 5'9 than 5'6 as the poster implied.

Wow, just wow.
I didn't even bother reading you post, just noticed that guy had closer knowledge of his height. He's still a ****ing midget compared to Teräväinen and isn't getting any taller.

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01-11-2013, 08:07 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBossman22 View Post
For those of you that are saying TT had a great tournament, I found this interesting from Elliot Friedman's 30 Thoughts.

28. Draftees who struggled: Teuvo Teravainen (Chicago). Had 12 points in six games, but "very unmotivated performance until tourney was already over." Jonathan Huberdeau (Florida): He'd been trending upward for awhile, but had a nightmarish event

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ould-work.html
Already covered in other threads (on the Blackhawks section) but every Finn who watched the games disagreed with that guy's view that Teräväinen was unmotivated. In the chaos that was Team Finland at WJC he really looked to be the only one somewhere at his level, but when you're used to to your team mates being where they're supposed to be on the ice according to the system and suddenly they're everywhere else, you're bound to look a little lost. Even though at this level individual skill can win some games due to undeveloped tactical minds of the players but if the opponent has a better, working system than your team and you're not THAT much better than them skillwise, you're going to get burned, which is what happened to Finland.

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01-11-2013, 08:22 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Trust me, as a BU student I know how good he is. He's torched our team a number of times, and I've seen most of them in person. He has great vision and skills, but trying to compare him to Kessel and Parise is just premature and unwarranted at this point.
Did someone say he was as good as either I must have missed that. I don't think he is as good as either but it says alot that he isn't that far off of Parise at least.

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01-12-2013, 08:03 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
For developing prospects it is, yeah. What's so crazy about that? That's why Russians come to Canada when they can play in a "men's league" instead. A much better men's league than SM-Liiga, might I add.
I don't think there are many Russian players who would have made to a KHL team when they left to CHL. I also feel that many Russians go to CHL to prove that there is no "Russian factor" with them.

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01-14-2013, 09:13 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Rolen View Post
No that I disagree but referring to where a player is drafted is a laughable argument to how skilled a player is.
I know but since both didn't played any pro games yet, it means something, and there were both drafted recently, and there's a reason why he wasn't drafted in first three rounds, and why Terevainen was drafted in the first round.

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01-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #239
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I know but since both didn't played any pro games yet, it means something, and there were both drafted recently, and there's a reason why he wasn't drafted in first three rounds, and why Terevainen was drafted in the first round.
Gaudreau was in the 2011 draft and Teravainen in the 2012 draft. Gaudreau has been given the opportunity to prove why he should have been drafted a few rounds higher then from where he was.

You're right, there was a reason why Gaudreau was drafted in the 4th round. Quite simply his size. Thus far he has shown it hasn't been a problem in every level he has played in and there is no doubt in my mind he would have been drafted much, much higher if teams were given the chance to redraft.

Neither player has played at the NHL level so you can look at draft position and go off that, but when it's a year and a half after the player has been drafted there is bound to be some risers and fallers in redrafts. Gaudreau would be a big riser, which explains the use of the word steal that has been thrown around with his name from time to time.

They both have tremendous skill and both are considered small players, one obviously more dominant in that category. At this point it is pure speculation as to who is going to become the better player / have the better career.

If I'm betting I say Teravainen has the better career. His skills are similar to Gaudreau in the sense that they are very high-end, but he has upwards of 1 year of development on him which is huge at their age, and size will be much less of a problem for him then for Gaudreau. Not to say size it isn't a problem for Teravainen, he is still considered a small player.

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01-14-2013, 11:39 PM
  #240
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Teravainen>Gaudreau in regards to skating,

Most important factor in the NHL

Prospectus he was rated 16th Gaudreau not in top 5


Brandon Pirri is everything Gaudreau hopes to be. Although at the AHL level he may struggle to get Pirri like numbers.

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01-15-2013, 12:29 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Teravainen>Gaudreau in regards to skating,

Most important factor in the NHL

Prospectus he was rated 16th Gaudreau not in top 5


Brandon Pirri is everything Gaudreau hopes to be. Although at the AHL level he may struggle to get Pirri like numbers.
Skating's not the most important factor in the NHL, or else Bouwmeester would be the best defenseman in the league. Honestly you know nothing about hockey, or Gaudreau for that matter. Stop trolling these threads.

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01-15-2013, 01:08 AM
  #242
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Teravainen>>Gaudreau

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01-15-2013, 02:31 AM
  #243
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I am not going to join this pissing match but I would like to say this:

The fact that a Flames 4th rounder can even be in a discussion about who is better with a recent 1st rounder is a great thing.

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01-15-2013, 03:30 AM
  #244
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Nothing like the WJC for fans to start over rating prospects.

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01-15-2013, 06:14 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I am not going to join this pissing match but I would like to say this:

The fact that a Flames 4th rounder can even be in a discussion about who is better with a recent 1st rounder is a great thing.
I can make a thread about who is better Kadri or Zetterberg, but that doesn't make Kadri any better than what he is

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01-15-2013, 06:18 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
I can make a thread about who is better Kadri or Zetterberg, but that doesn't make Kadri any better than what he is
are you seriously suggesting the difference between the 2 is that vast right now? Jesus they are both prospects, therefor both huge question marks and there are enough people picking Gaudreau to make it a valid argument. I get that TT is the Hawks golden boy right now, but to suggest it's not debatable is nothing but sheer bias.

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01-15-2013, 06:19 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Nothing like the WJC for fans to start over rating prospects.
I think most people who are high on him are far more impressed by his play with BC than his play in a short tournament. All the WJC did was confirm my (and others) suspicion that this kid is special. Hockey IQ like his doesn't come around very often.

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01-15-2013, 06:21 AM
  #248
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Nothing like the WJC for fans to start over rating prospects.
lol. Good try, champ.

Except that various people have been pumping his tires during his NCAA domination. WJC just happened to show why alot of people have faith in him becoming a very good player.

This is where you say, "lawl, but he's so small, lots of players like him that rock lower leagues and can't crack the NHL"

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01-15-2013, 06:28 AM
  #249
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
So is Martin St. Louis doesn't seem to have stopped him from having multiple ppg seasons. I think Teravainen is the safer pick but I think Gaudreau has a higher upside. Both great players its a toss up for me.
Despite rooting for a team that over the past CBA iced Briere, Roy, Ennis, and Gerbe, there's still something to be said about a guy being very short. There's no doubt that it lowers his chances of making it and the quality of opportunities he's given to do just that. Gaudreau puts forth the kind of effort shorter players need to in order to make it, but it remains to be seen how effective he will be. His frame isn't as impressive as most of the shorter guys who make it and though he will surely build on it, it's only safe to assume so much capacity there. He's never going to be a little ball of bulk like Gerbe and Gerbe has hardly lit the NHL on fire despite a fantastic college career (though I personally love his game).

I'd go with Teravainen right now, but Gaudreau's college career so far is likely being underrated as typically happens. He's been fantastic in the NCAA. I'd love to have either prospect in our system. In fact, it seemed like the Sabres were looking to pick Teravainen + Girgensons last season, but Grigorenko fell.


Last edited by Rob Paxon: 01-15-2013 at 06:35 AM.
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01-15-2013, 06:32 AM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Nail Yakupov 7 games, 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, +2, 20 shots
Teuvo Teravainen 6 games, 5 goals, 6 assists, 11 points, +6, 33 shots

Not sure how you can say Yakupov was more impressive when he is a year older and his stats aren't that close even with an extra game. Sure, it isn't as impressive what Teravainen did because of the competition but he could only play who was in front of him. Yakupov is a better prospect but I didn't leave more impressed with him at all.
Well, Yakupov's team played much better against much better competition. Not that complicated, really, though I wasn't particularly impressed by his performance and I'm not a big fan of his in general. I watched every game of both teams for the record, due to Grigorenko and Armia.

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