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Rask vs Schneider

View Poll Results: Who racks up the most wins this year?
Rask 104 65.41%
Schneider 55 34.59%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-10-2013, 03:27 PM
  #26
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Schneider, unless gillis fails to trade Luongo.

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01-10-2013, 04:05 PM
  #27
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Rask and it's close.

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01-10-2013, 04:34 PM
  #28
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Schneider, better goalie.

only thing is I could see the Canucks struggling out of the gate without Kesler

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01-10-2013, 04:54 PM
  #29
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more wins =\= better goalie

I think that they are about equal and will reevaluate them after this season, Rask would get the edge in wins because I believe Boston is stronger this year and our goltending issue is not solved yet

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01-10-2013, 05:10 PM
  #30
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Khudobin > Schneider

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01-10-2013, 06:05 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Because Rask is a better goalie, it isn't all about numbers and just the past two seasons.
Better at what? Certainly not stopping pucks.

The Canucks play a much more attack oriented style than the Bruins and give up more quality scoring chances. Schneider has outperformed Rask in a tougher environment. You just can't make a convincing case that Rask is the better player at this point...

If you need to throw one of these 2 guys in to a game 7, Schneider gets the nod.

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01-10-2013, 06:06 PM
  #32
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Khudobin > Schneider
Seems legit.

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01-10-2013, 07:13 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Better at what? Certainly not stopping pucks.

The Canucks play a much more attack oriented style than the Bruins and give up more quality scoring chances. Schneider has outperformed Rask in a tougher environment. You just can't make a convincing case that Rask is the better player at this point...

If you need to throw one of these 2 guys in to a game 7, Schneider gets the nod.
Schneider was great last year, but Rask has been better every other year, and is a year younger.
It's certainly a pretty close call as to who is the better puck stopper.

Both should get a lot of starts this year. Should be interesting.

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01-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
Schneider was great last year, but Rask has been better every other year, and is a year younger.
2010-11-

Schneider- 2.23GAA, .929SV%
Rask- 2.67GAA, 9.18SV%

Schneider has been better statistically the last 2 years.

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01-10-2013, 08:57 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Better at what? Certainly not stopping pucks.

The Canucks play a much more attack oriented style than the Bruins and give up more quality scoring chances. Schneider has outperformed Rask in a tougher environment. You just can't make a convincing case that Rask is the better player at this point...

If you need to throw one of these 2 guys in to a game 7, Schneider gets the nod.
He's better at stopping pucks and not over playing the puck resulting in bad goals.

The bruins and canucks have comparable defenses. The bruins obviously have chara who does more than anyone else on the canucks, but the depth of the canucks defensively is massively superior. The canucks don't really play anything resembling a hardcore attack oriented rush heavy run and gun offense. Their team is only offensive oriented through puck possession in the same way the red wings teams were. To definitively say the canucks give up more quality scoring chances is rather erroneous. To go even farther and say it is a straight up harder environment is flat out wrong.

The last two years bruins have been a fairly aggressive team based around rolling 3 effective lines capable of scoring, allowing a lot of safe outside shots, and defense that clears rebounds effectively. I don't think they play anything resembling a super safe defensive style that is significantly easier to play in than vancouver who give up way less easy shots and comparable high scoring chances. Honestly, if anything Boston's defense is worse. I think most educated people on this topic would agree.

So moving past that error on your part.
Schneider hasn't outperformed rask to this point. Look at quality of respective opponents over the last three years. Look at what rask did as a starter on the bruins. Schneider has yet to do anything of comparable merit. Unless you want to count a 7 game start stretch last year, which would be a reach to say the least.

If you want to use Thomas, a former vezina winner, starting a season 10-0 with a 97 save percentage and stealing the starting job from rask as a black mark against him then I really suggest you try to evaluate goalies differently.

Rask in a larger sample and quality size and younger age has been better than Schneider. It is that simple. So I literally just made a case for Rask being better than Schneider to this point and it wasn't even remotely complicated.

On to your last notion, that is, like the rest of your points to this point, asinine and based on literally nothing other than your personal bias. You have done nothing to frame the situation or anything like that and just imagined a bizarre and impossible game 7 situation and given Schneider the nod based on nothing.

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01-10-2013, 09:22 PM
  #36
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I remember when I was sold on Eddie Lack one time, so I hope they do trade Luongo.

Schneider-Lack tandem

How does Vancouver rely on goaltending with the team they have on paper?

Luongo is a top 5 goalie today.

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01-10-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Rask in a larger sample and quality size and younger age has been better than Schneider. It is that simple. So I literally just made a case for Rask being better than Schneider to this point and it wasn't even remotely complicated.
No, you just rambled on about nothing, and at the end declared Rask the better player. You couldn't have said less with more words.

Cory Schneider has stopped a significantly higher % of shots than Rask over the last 2 years. There isn't a goalie in the NHL that has a better SV% than Schneider over the last couple years, hence why the Canucks are on the verge of moving their franchise netminder that they locked up to a lifetime contract, which just so happens to be the best goalie in the club's 40 plus year history.

If you want to make the case that Rask was better than Schneider 3 years ago, I would be on board. Obviously you can't make that claim today.

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01-10-2013, 10:02 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
I remember when I was sold on Eddie Lack one time, so I hope they do trade Luongo.

Schneider-Lack tandem
You're not the only one sold on Eddie Lack. The goalie guild rated him the 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Jacob Markstrom.

What exactly is funny about that goaltending duo? Schneider and Lack are studs...

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01-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You're not the only one sold on Eddie Lack. The goalie guild rated him the 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Jacob Markstrom.

What exactly is funny about that goaltending duo? Schneider and Lack are studs...
as long as there is no pressure in Vancouver.

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01-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #40
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I'd take Rask but it's fairly close..

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01-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
as long as there is no pressure in Vancouver.
Won't be any more pressure than being thrown into a playoff series down 2-0.

Schneider has never looked fazed by pressure.

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01-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
No, you just rambled on about nothing, and at the end declared Rask the better player. You couldn't have said less with more words.

Cory Schneider has stopped a significantly higher % of shots than Rask over the last 2 years. There isn't a goalie in the NHL that has a better SV% than Schneider over the last couple years, hence why the Canucks are on the verge of moving their franchise netminder that they locked up to a lifetime contract, which just so happens to be the best goalie in the club's 40 plus year history.

If you want to make the case that Rask was better than Schneider 3 years ago, I would be on board. Obviously you can't make that claim today.
So does that make Schneider the best goalie in the league, because of these numbers in a minimal sample size?

Why do you restrict yourself to the last two years for literally no reason at all?

Why do you dismiss logic and rational for judging goalies as rambling on about nothing?

Why do you ignore the quality of opponents faced?

Why do you not care about the value of having a starting goalie load or prolonged playoff action?

Why have you not acknowledged that your bizarre conclusion of defensive difference between the bruins and canucks was incredibly incorrect?

Why do you have an impossibly hard time reading entire posts and responding to them?

How does elite back up numbers instantly qualify a goalie to be superior to someone who has actually successfully been a starter in this league and had longer continued excellence?

Was Brian Elliott the best goalie in the league last year, because he had an amazing save percentage that was far above anyone else?

Is hedberg a better goalie than brodeur because as a backup he has had better numbers than marty in this zany two year sample we're restricting ourselves to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You're not the only one sold on Eddie Lack. The goalie guild rated him the 2nd best goaltending prospect behind Jacob Markstrom.

What exactly is funny about that goaltending duo? Schneider and Lack are studs...
Now you're quoting goalie guild as a legit source. Let the gong show continue.

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01-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Why have you not acknowledged that your bizarre conclusion of defensive difference between the bruins and canucks was incredibly incorrect?
I can't believe you're trying to convince me the Bruins defense is as active as Vancouvers. Why do you think the Canucks blueline significantly outscores the Bruins even though Boston scores more goals? The Canucks defense is arguably the most active in the NHL. Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff and Ballard are always up in the play - much moreso than the Bruins bigger, slower, safer defense unit. You won't find a single poster on these forums that agrees with you that Boston's defense is more active or surrenders more quality scoring chances against than the Canucks. Not one.

Why don't you convince me Gillis is a fool for trading a franchise netminder for a guy so unproven in Cory Schneider? I'm not the only one 100% sold on the guy. So is Mike Gillis, the general manager with the best winning % in the NHL since being hired.

You seem totally oblivous to the fact Schneider is taking the job of the goalie with the best stats in the NHL since the last lockout that is 1 year removed from a Vezina nomination. Teams with a limited window of winning the Stanley cup don't replace proven stars with question marks. Sorry. Schneider is the real deal.

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01-10-2013, 11:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
Now you're quoting goalie guild as a legit source. Let the gong show continue.
Would you say you're more knowledgable about netminders than the goalie guild?

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01-11-2013, 10:49 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I can't believe you're trying to convince me the Bruins defense is as active as Vancouvers. Why do you think the Canucks blueline significantly outscores the Bruins even though Boston scores more goals? The Canucks defense is arguably the most active in the NHL. Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff and Ballard are always up in the play - much moreso than the Bruins bigger, slower, safer defense unit. You won't find a single poster on these forums that agrees with you that Boston's defense is more active or surrenders more quality scoring chances against than the Canucks. Not one.

Why don't you convince me Gillis is a fool for trading a franchise netminder for a guy so unproven in Cory Schneider? I'm not the only one 100% sold on the guy. So is Mike Gillis, the general manager with the best winning % in the NHL since being hired.

You seem totally oblivous to the fact Schneider is taking the job of the goalie with the best stats in the NHL since the last lockout that is 1 year removed from a Vezina nomination. Teams with a limited window of winning the Stanley cup don't replace proven stars with question marks. Sorry. Schneider is the real deal.
What. Who cares if its more active. That doesn't mean it isn't as solid defensively. It has a different play style due to its vastly different personal. What does that have to do with how good they are defensively? Just because the canucks defense is more involved in offense doesn't mean they don't also do their job defensively, or that they automatically allow more high scoring opportunities. How does that logic connect in any way shape or form?

Gillis inherited a borderline cup team and improved them to cup favorites for two years. Great job building that win percentage from the ground up there! He's a good, maybe even great, GM but to really quote the best win percentage is extremely misleading. But that's another topic, which you most likely hold an incorrect opinion on as well. All of that said being a good/great GM doesn't prevent one from error.

You seem oblivious to the fact that I have said nothing that remotely points to me believing Schneider isn't capable of being a great number one goalie. You, once again, drew this conclusion based on nothing. This entire discussion has nothing to do with Schneiders ability to be a number one goalie. It has everything to do with Rask being better than Schneider and your incorrect assessment otherwise.

You should really stop dropping the sopel and start actually reading full posts, or even watching hockey before commenting on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Would you say you're more knowledgable about netminders than the goalie guild?
The dude has said jonas gustavsson is going to be the best free agent signing of the off season. I think anyone who doesn't comment on goaltending knows more than him.

He has a bizarre fascination with inferior back up goalies with weak skating skills who play excessive styles and make the game harder for themselves than they need to.

What exactly has goalie guild done to give himself legitimacy as an intelligent knowledgeable hockey source? He played college club, composes many poorly written articles, and has a lot of followers on twitter. Is that all you need to become classified as a knowledgeable source on hockey? Fascinating.

I wonder how much of my post you'll ignore this time and what fraction you'll nitpick with some erroneous complaint.

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01-11-2013, 11:56 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Better at what? Certainly not stopping pucks.

The Canucks play a much more attack oriented style than the Bruins and give up more quality scoring chances. Schneider has outperformed Rask in a tougher environment. You just can't make a convincing case that Rask is the better player at this point...

If you need to throw one of these 2 guys in to a game 7, Schneider gets the nod.
I think the entire post is false, but I would be particularly intrigued as to how you reached the conclusion the Canucka give up higher quality chances than the average hockey team. There's an extremely strong correlation between shot totals and scoring chances and the Canucks have been very good at out-shooting opponents over the past few seasons.

If you have ANY evidence that proves otherwise I'm sure there are many, many people who would love to see it..


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01-11-2013, 06:35 PM
  #47
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I think the entire post is false, but I would be particularly intrigued as to how you reached the conclusion the Canucka give up higher quality chances than the average hockey team. There's an extremely strong correlation between shot totals and scoring chances and the Canucks have been very good at out-shooting opponents over the past few seasons.

If you have ANY evidence that proves otherwise I'm sure there are many, many people who would love to see it..
I didn't say the Canucks give up higher quality chances than the average hockey team. I said they have given up higher quality chances than the Boston Bruins over the last couple years. Boston's team defense is outstanding.

How can you say the Canucks don't give up higher quality scoring chances than the Bruins when they kill far more minor penalties? Vancouver has taken 75 more minors than Boston over the last 2 years. As you well know, shot quality against while short handed is significantly more difficult than at even strength. There's your evidence.

The Canucks outshot their opponents by 0.7 shots a game last season. The Bruins outshot their opponents by 2.6 shots a game last season. In your opinion which team likely gave up more quality scoring chances against last year based on these numbers, coupled with the Canucks killing more penalties? Can you make a claim for the Bruins?

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01-11-2013, 06:37 PM
  #48
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I think they're both good but very overrated goalies due to playing on such good teams. I take Schneider simply as a guess because Vancouver isn't as good defensively as Boston imo.

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01-11-2013, 08:01 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Aucoin11 View Post
What. Who cares if its more active. That doesn't mean it isn't as solid defensively. It has a different play style due to its vastly different personal. What does that have to do with how good they are defensively? Just because the canucks defense is more involved in offense doesn't mean they don't also do their job defensively, or that they automatically allow more high scoring opportunities. How does that logic connect in any way shape or form?

Gillis inherited a borderline cup team and improved them to cup favorites for two years. Great job building that win percentage from the ground up there! He's a good, maybe even great, GM but to really quote the best win percentage is extremely misleading. But that's another topic, which you most likely hold an incorrect opinion on as well. All of that said being a good/great GM doesn't prevent one from error.

You seem oblivious to the fact that I have said nothing that remotely points to me believing Schneider isn't capable of being a great number one goalie. You, once again, drew this conclusion based on nothing. This entire discussion has nothing to do with Schneiders ability to be a number one goalie. It has everything to do with Rask being better than Schneider and your incorrect assessment otherwise.

You should really stop dropping the sopel and start actually reading full posts, or even watching hockey before commenting on it.



The dude has said jonas gustavsson is going to be the best free agent signing of the off season. I think anyone who doesn't comment on goaltending knows more than him.

He has a bizarre fascination with inferior back up goalies with weak skating skills who play excessive styles and make the game harder for themselves than they need to.

What exactly has goalie guild done to give himself legitimacy as an intelligent knowledgeable hockey source? He played college club, composes many poorly written articles, and has a lot of followers on twitter. Is that all you need to become classified as a knowledgeable source on hockey? Fascinating.

I wonder how much of my post you'll ignore this time and what fraction you'll nitpick with some erroneous complaint.
Did you really just ask what a team's defensive playing style has to do with how good they are defensively?

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01-11-2013, 08:59 PM
  #50
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What. Who cares if its more active. That doesn't mean it isn't as solid defensively.
I disagree. The more active a defense, the more likely they give up odd man rushes against. It's not a coincidence the best defensive coach of our generation Jacques Lemaire didn't want his defense going past the red line - nor is it a coincidence his goalies tended to have career years with him.

If you're not more susceptible to giving up quality chances against when playing an aggressive system, why would any team not employ this gameplan? Because the more risks dmen take, the more chances they surrender. And since Mike Gillis' arrival, that's the type of team Vancouver has been. Polar opposite to how the club operated under the guidance of Dave Nonis.

As to the point that all shots are created equal, I disagree. The Coyotes surrendered the 3rd most shots in the NHL, yet their team defense was top 5. I attribute that more to their system than their goaltending. I view the Bruins as one of the best defensive teams in the league, along with the Coyotes, Kings, Rangers and Blues. The Canucks team defense just isn't as strong as those clubs IMO, though they're still a good defensive club.

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