HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Michael Del Zotto agrees to terms with NYR (Brooks: 2 years, ~$2.55M per)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-12-2013, 01:04 AM
  #276
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The problem with that trade is that we are giving up valuable RFA years for a very old defender.

I'd rather trade DZ for one of the EDM forwards and use assets like Skjei/1st/Hrivik/Fasth,etc to get Boyle/Yandle.
Ideally we won't have to do any of that.

But if Del Zotto (and his agent), have a bloated head, knowing full well what the future of salaries in this league will be (not as rich ast hey once were)...then he may have to go.

He isn't mature enough, he isn't stable enough on the ice, either, to invest top dollar in.

McDonagh, Staal, Girardi are/should be the top priorities on the blue line.

Also, Boyle is still a 50 point defenseman. Regardless of his age.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:09 AM
  #277
dethomas07
Registered User
 
dethomas07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
1 year makes no sense because Sather would have to worry about him, McD, Stepan and Hags.
3 years coincides the expiration of the contracts of: Kreider, Callahan, Girardi, Hank, Gabby, to name a few.
Staal expires in year 4, and I don't think that DZ has earned himself a contract longer that 3 years, which once again, would make no sense.

2 years is the best term for DZ. McD next summer, however? Lock him up for good.
All our contracts, Kreider, callahan, hank, girardi, gabs, boyle, all end in 2years (end of 14' season).. Slats will have his hands full that summer, not only resigning RFAs but all our valuable UFA, which will be poached (well tried)...

Best solution is 1 year term this year or 3year +deal to avoid one more issue

13'- Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Sauer
14'- Gaborik, Boyle, Callahan, Ashem, Rupp, Pyatt, Kreider, Girardi, Hank, Biron

Basically everyones contracts are up in 2 years, except Nash, Richards, Staal

dethomas07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:20 AM
  #278
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 18,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
All our contracts, Kreider, callahan, hank, girardi, gabs, boyle, all end in 2years (end of 14' season).. Slats will have his hands full that summer, not only resigning RFAs but all our valuable UFA, which will be poached (well tried)...

Best solution is 1 year term this year or 3year +deal to avoid one more issue

13'- Stepan, Hagelin, McDonagh, Sauer
14'- Gaborik, Boyle, Callahan, Ashem, Rupp, Pyatt, Kreider, Girardi, Hank, Biron

Basically everyones contracts are up in 2 years, except Nash, Richards, Staal
I really don't want Sather to be dealing with McD, Stepan, Hags, and DZ in the same summer. You figure that besides Kreider, the contracts who are up in 2014 go down or stay the same. It'll balance out.
We replace guys like Boyle, Stralman, Pyatt with cheap ELCs like Miller, MacIlrath, Lindberg, Fasth, Hrivik, Skjei.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:25 AM
  #279
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Ideally we won't have to do any of that.

But if Del Zotto (and his agent), have a bloated head, knowing full well what the future of salaries in this league will be (not as rich ast hey once were)...then he may have to go.

He isn't mature enough, he isn't stable enough on the ice, either, to invest top dollar in.

McDonagh, Staal, Girardi are/should be the top priorities on the blue line.

Also, Boyle is still a 50 point defenseman. Regardless of his age.
Boyle wasn't even in the NHL until he was 24 and it took him quite a long period of time to become a #1 defender. DZ is our most talented defender and improved leaps and bound last year, to the point where I think he is close to Boyle. Has Del Zotto peaked at the ripe age of 22? It would be a very bad move to trade Del Zotto for an aging veteran. This is exactly the pre-lockout type of moves that we got mocked for. Trading high end-young talent for star players on the decline/past their primes.

I fully support trading for Boyle this year, but not at the expense of a young top 4 defenseman with RFA years.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:28 AM
  #280
Machinehead
Moderator
Hank, pls
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 37,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yeah, except they didn't do it on purpose.
No but looking at our situation you have to think the **** hits the fan at some point. We're just carrying too many big contracts with a decreasing cap to not get in trouble somewhere along the line.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:30 AM
  #281
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
No but looking at our situation you have to think the **** hits the fan at some point. We're just carrying too many big contracts with a decreasing cap to not get in trouble somewhere along the line.
Their team got dismantled because Dale Tallon didn't know what a qualifying offer was.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:34 AM
  #282
Machinehead
Moderator
Hank, pls
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 37,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Their team got dismantled because Dale Tallon didn't know what a qualifying offer was.
Well you talk about losing Gaborik. Isn't letting your best offensive player by far just walk out the door considered dismantling?

In my opinion, we are not winning the Cup without Marian Gaborik unless Stepan and Kreider take massive strides forward.

People talk about losing Gaborik as a solution. That's no solution, that's the **** hitting the fan I was talking about.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:40 AM
  #283
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Well you talk about losing Gaborik. Isn't letting your best offensive player by far just walk out the door considered dismantling?

In my opinion, we are not winning the Cup without Marian Gaborik unless Stepan and Kreider take massive strides forward.

People talk about losing Gaborik as a solution. That's no solution, that's the **** hitting the fan I was talking about.
The Rangers can keep this core intact though since what separates the two is Sather's ability to hardball rfas. We won't be the Blackhawks.

Kershaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:43 AM
  #284
Machinehead
Moderator
Hank, pls
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 37,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Rangers can keep this core intact though since what separates the two is Sather's ability to hardball rfas. We won't be the Blackhawks.
I'd like to keep both Gaborik and McDonagh at least through 2016. I'd be surprised if that happens, honestly. I hope Sather brought his hardhat cause he's gonna have to hardball the yellow off of everyone's teeth.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 01:51 AM
  #285
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Boyle wasn't even in the NHL until he was 24 and it took him quite a long period of time to become a #1 defender. DZ is our most talented defender and improved leaps and bound last year, to the point where I think he is close to Boyle. Has Del Zotto peaked at the ripe age of 22? It would be a very bad move to trade Del Zotto for an aging veteran. This is exactly the pre-lockout type of moves that we got mocked for. Trading high end-young talent for star players on the decline/past their primes.

I fully support trading for Boyle this year, but not at the expense of a young top 4 defenseman with RFA years.
For this particular player im not bothered by his age. He isn't declining. He scored more points then Del Zotto did last year.

Del Zotto hasn't peaked. But he's not worth the price he's seeking and may eventually get. He isn't. He's not Karlsson. He is behind three of the top shut down defensemen in the league on this depth chart, for the foreseeable future.

There are more important players on this roster and in the organization to commit to.

Do I hope he signs for a fair price? 2.5 max. Yes.

I'm not sold, yet, that he has the sense to do what's right for both the team and himself. He could very well pull the crap Dubinsky did.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 02:01 AM
  #286
MugatuNYR
so hot right now
 
MugatuNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 3,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I'd like to keep both Gaborik and McDonagh at least through 2016. I'd be surprised if that happens, honestly. I hope Sather brought his hardhat cause he's gonna have to hardball the yellow off of everyone's teeth.
Looking at the big picture, there is about $12.5 mil in cap space to sign the four RFA's (MDZ, Stepan, Hags, McD). A depth forward and d-man will also need to be included in that 12.5 since Halpern and Eminger will be off the books.

MDZ: $2.5-3.5
Stepan: $3-4
Hagelin: $1.5-2.5
McD: $4-5

Total: $11-15

Then you have to add two depth guys. It'll be very tight. Sather really has to play hardball like you said. Hopefully I'm overestimating values in that chart. Rupp or Pyatt could be bought out for an extra $1.5.

MugatuNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 02:07 AM
  #287
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 18,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptCally View Post
Looking at the big picture, there is about $12.5 mil in cap space to sign the four RFA's (MDZ, Stepan, Hags, McD). A depth forward and d-man will also need to be included in that 12.5 since Halpern and Eminger will be off the books.

MDZ: $2.5-3.5
Stepan: $3-4
Hagelin: $1.5-2.5
McD: $4-5

Total: $11-15

Then you have to add two depth guys. It'll be very tight. Sather really has to play hardball like you said. Hopefully I'm overestimating values in that chart. Rupp or Pyatt could be bought out for an extra $1.5.
That's when you hope that Lindberg, Fasth, Miller, McL, Jean, Skjei, Hrivik and co can replace the likes of Boyle, Pyatt, Asham, Stralman. It won't save you a significant amount, but it could be the difference between an offer being too low for a key player, or an offer being just right.

Rangers Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 03:21 AM
  #288
17futurecap
Registered User
 
17futurecap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 6,958
vCash: 500
Quote:
“Michael has until [tomorrow] morning to figure this out, and I sure hope he does so he doesn’t have to miss any time,” Sather told The Post last night. “We’ve made Michael a very good and very fair offer.

“Sitting out is not going to help him in any way.”

The Rangers, confronting a cap squeeze next season, are believed to have offered Del Zotto a two-year contract worth north of $2.4 million per season. The defenseman, who had been looking for a longer-term deal before the lockout, is believed to be seeking approximately $3 million per season for two years.

“Listen, we’ve all missed enough time. I don’t want to see anybody miss even a day more,” Sather said. “It’s certainly not going to do Michael any good.

“We want him here. He knows that. We’ve done what we can. It’s up to him.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers
Love Slats when it comes to these RFA deals.

17futurecap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 03:55 AM
  #289
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17futurecap View Post
Love Slats when it comes to these RFA deals.
His method comes from doing the small things right and building up. In the past, he's obviously made some notable big mistakes and those made him seem like an idiot for quite a stretch of time but since the **** storm has settled, his thoughts behind every move makes him seem progressively more sound.

Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:02 AM
  #290
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,903
vCash: 500
DZ wants $3M per in a bridge contract. That's it. After the PA basically won the lockout by keeping all of the systems intact. Slats sounds like his buddy Gary Bettman. You look at the PA counter offer on December 6 and what the CBA looks like. The NHL wasted one month for nothing. What's worth of $2.4M mean? The Rangers offered upwards of $2.5M over 2-3 years in September. You look at the numbers. DZ at $3M still leaves the Rangers with good flexibility for the next 2 seasons. He is not asking for a long term deal worth $4M per which wouldn't be outlandish looking at Cam Fowler.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:29 AM
  #291
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,827
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
DZ wants $3M per in a bridge contract. That's it. After the PA basically won the lockout by keeping all of the systems intact. Slats sounds like his buddy Gary Bettman. You look at the PA counter offer on December 6 and what the CBA looks like. The NHL wasted one month for nothing. What's worth of $2.4M mean? The Rangers offered upwards of $2.5M over 2-3 years in September. You look at the numbers. DZ at $3M still leaves the Rangers with good flexibility for the next 2 seasons. He is not asking for a long term deal worth $4M per which wouldn't be outlandish looking at Cam Fowler.
Split the difference
2 years - $2,7M
Be at camp

BBKers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 05:58 AM
  #292
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Split the difference
2 years - $2,7M
Be at camp
DZ should sit out. Sather acts like the Rangers don't need this player. Brooks wrote north of $2.4M. He wrote upwards of $2.5M in September. $2.6M. $2.7M. DZ should sign a 1 year deal and be arb eligible in the summer.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 06:00 AM
  #293
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
His method comes from doing the small things right and building up. In the past, he's obviously made some notable big mistakes and those made him seem like an idiot for quite a stretch of time but since the **** storm has settled, his thoughts behind every move makes him seem progressively more sound.
Progressive? Lets see how progressive Sather is when McD files for salary arbitration this summer.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:00 AM
  #294
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,903
vCash: 500
The Rangers and Mark Guy aren't far apart. Guy was asking for a long term in the summer. Now its the same term as the Rangers. Teams were hoping for changes in the CBA which they didn't get.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:20 AM
  #295
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
DZ should sit out. Sather acts like the Rangers don't need this player. Brooks wrote north of $2.4M. He wrote upwards of $2.5M in September. $2.6M. $2.7M. DZ should sign a 1 year deal and be arb eligible in the summer.
Noted that your pro-player. Even if its abundantly clear Del Zotto isn't worth what he's asking for and the fact there's a handful of more important players due raises right after this.

You want Sather to overpay Del Zotto when McDonagh and Stepan need new contracts in July? McDonagh is worth 3 million per. Not Del Zotto. You don't pay 3 million for constant brain dead giveaways and a 20+ something year old who acts like a drunk teenager, an issue Tortorella has been harping on for two years now.

Lundqvist, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, Hagelin

Those guys are priorities. Those guys have their heads on straight. Those guys are worth the investment.

Del Zotto is a good kid who means well, he has a ton of skill, he has a ton of potential. But he's hit or miss. He isn't the one to pay when there's only so much to go around this time.

He can take 2.5 for a couple of years. Earn his big pay day when hes in his mid-20's.

Dubinsky pulled this stunt. Sather gave in and said: "you wanted it, here it is, prove you deserve it now". Dubinsky rewarded management by having an underwhelming season that lead to him being shipped out for Nash.

He's not worth more than 2.5 right now. He's not at that point in his development. Not as a player. And certainly not yet as a person. He's VERY immature.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:28 AM
  #296
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,827
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Noted that your pro-player. Even if its abundantly clear Del Zotto isn't worth what he's asking for and the fact there's a handful of more important players due raises right after this.

You want Sather to overpay Del Zotto when McDonagh and Stepan need new contracts in July? McDonagh is worth 3 million per. Not Del Zotto. You don't pay 3 million for constant brain dead giveaways and a 20+ something year old who acts like a drunk teenager, an issue Tortorella has been harping on for two years now.

Lundqvist, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, Hagelin

Those guys are priorities. Those guys have their heads on straight. Those guys are worth the investment.

Del Zotto is a good kid who means well, he has a ton of skill, he has a ton of potential. But he's hit or miss. He isn't the one to pay when there's only so much to go around this time.

He can take 2.5 for a couple of years. Earn his big pay day when hes in his mid-20's.

Dubinsky pulled this stunt. Sather gave in and said: "you wanted it, here it is, prove you deserve it now". Dubinsky rewarded management by having an underwhelming season that lead to him being shipped out for Nash.

He's not worth more than 2.5 right now. He's not at that point in his development. Not as a player. And certainly not yet as a person. He's VERY immature.
I am also pro player. But that does not mean that I think del Zotto should get more than $2,5 (plus change) per for a two year deal. His inconsistency needs to be evaluated first. A two year deal should clarify that. As you also convey.

Marc Staal signed a 5 year deal in 2010. Bought one year of UFA eligibility as a group 3. He was then a 23 year old with arbitration rights. He got an average of 3.975M for these 5 years.

Dan Girardi was also signed in 2010 as an RFA with full arbitration rights. It was also his third contract. He signed for 4 years then, buying 2 years of UFA status. He cost $3.325M per annum.

Michael del Zotto is 21 years old. He has no arbiration rights (1 season remaining). He has 4 years until he reaches UFA status. He has a good year behind him. He will get $2,5M (MAXIMUM) for 2 years. $3M for 3 years or $3,5M for 4 years. Since Sather needs to keep the caphit down to resign RFAs next year - bet on the lower figure and the shorter deal.

BBKers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:28 AM
  #297
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,044
vCash: 500
Dan Boyle really struggled on defense last year, he is indeed slipping in some areas lately

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:31 AM
  #298
Dactyl
💙NASH💙
 
Dactyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,529
vCash: 500
dz is one of my favorites, have his jersey that i practically worship (rangers are like 30-0 when i go to the garden wearing that jersey). that said if dz pulls the same **** dubi did i really dont want him anywhere near this team. dubi didnt deserve that contract and dz doesnt deserve what he is asking for anything over 3 mill is overpayment and we really should look into getting an upgrade for the team. trade mdz im sure there will be bighters who would pay a lot for him. i know hes our only ofensive dman quite honestly i think thats bs give mcd pp time and he has better numbers than dz does

Dactyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:34 AM
  #299
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,169
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Noted that your pro-player. Even if its abundantly clear Del Zotto isn't worth what he's asking for and the fact there's a handful of more important players due raises right after this.

You want Sather to overpay Del Zotto when McDonagh and Stepan need new contracts in July? McDonagh is worth 3 million per. Not Del Zotto. You don't pay 3 million for constant brain dead giveaways and a 20+ something year old who acts like a drunk teenager, an issue Tortorella has been harping on for two years now.

Lundqvist, McDonagh, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, Hagelin

Those guys are priorities. Those guys have their heads on straight. Those guys are worth the investment.

Del Zotto is a good kid who means well, he has a ton of skill, he has a ton of potential. But he's hit or miss. He isn't the one to pay when there's only so much to go around this time.

He can take 2.5 for a couple of years. Earn his big pay day when hes in his mid-20's.

Dubinsky pulled this stunt. Sather gave in and said: "you wanted it, here it is, prove you deserve it now". Dubinsky rewarded management by having an underwhelming season that lead to him being shipped out for Nash.

He's not worth more than 2.5 right now. He's not at that point in his development. Not as a player. And certainly not yet as a person. He's VERY immature.
Hard to imagine a player who finished +20 on the season and finished 12th in the Norris Trophy voting (right behind McD) was guilty of 'constant braindead giveaways'. I certainly didn't observe constant giveaways last season... MDZ was credited with 35 giveaways last season, good for 5th on the team (Girardi led the team with 61). He was ranked 93rd in the league among all defensemen in the 'giveaways' statistic...

At what point last season did he act like a 'drunken teenager' and at what point did Tortorella put him in the dog house or chide him for how he was playing last season???? Torts was displeased with him the season before last and challenged him to be better this past season. The Rangers had to be VERY pleased with how Del Zotto bounced back and delivered a solid season. I agree with you about the appropriate price range for his new contract but those other statements you made above are inaccurate with regards to how he performed this past season.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 01-12-2013 at 08:46 AM.
wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2013, 08:36 AM
  #300
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dan Boyle really struggled on defense last year, he is indeed slipping in some areas lately
It doesn't have to be him.

It can be a top prospect, or a young forward as well.

The point in case is, Del Zotto isn't worth what he thinks he is. And the Rangers have guys who will need new contracts who ARE worth it.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.