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I just posted this in the Isles thread, but I wanted the opinion of non-Isles fans for a less biased opinion..... Here it goes:
The Isles have had a need to upgrade the defense for almost 10 years, but that need has now turned to desperation. I have never seen a blueline this thin. There is Streit, Hammer, McDonald and Carkner. Hammer and Carkner play real physical, drop the mitts, and thus miss quite a few games. So if either one of those two, or the 36 year old Streit misses an extended period of time, I wouldn't even want to imagine how pathetic the D would be this year.
With that said, Garth always said if he is going to make a trade, he wants to bring in a guy that fits the system and direction (youth movement) of the team. One guy that I think would be perfect and could step right in is Brandon Gormley. As good as a prospect as he is (14th overall pick the year we took Nino), the Coyotes have David Rundblad and Oliver Ekman-Larsson who are prospects rated just as high, if not slightly higher than Gormley. That along with the fact that the Coyotes have a solid veteran blueline in Keith Yandle, Derek Morris, Klesa, Michalek and Schlemko, could perhaps make Gormley available at the right price.
Gormley will be 21 next month and I see him ready to make the jump this year into a regular role in the NHL. He reminds me a lot of De Haan in his style of play, except Gormley is 6'2 200 pounds, so unlike De Haan, there are no size concerns. He would easily be a top-4 D-man for many years to come. So along with being able to step right in this year, he is a long term solution.
So what could we give up for him???? Personally, with the state of our current D along with our forward depth, I'd give up Grabner for Gormley. If not Grabner, maybe our first rounder this year. I know that is very risky, as the top 10 is very solid, but at some point we have to take a chance if we ever want to turn the corner.
We ain't gonna get Tavares but they're not getting Gormley for Grabner, the first or both.
To put it this way; you're losing either Tavares or Nielsen and your first two picks. And I realize Tavares isn't going to happen(because it'd be an overpayment) so Nielsen and the picks or something of similar value and most importantly, of similar use to the Coyotes.
We ain't gonna get Tavares but they're not getting Gormley for Grabner, the first or both.
To put it this way; you're losing either Tavares or Nielsen and your first two picks. And I realize Tavares isn't going to happen(because it'd be an overpayment) so Nielsen and the picks or something of similar value and most importantly, of similar use to the Coyotes.
Gotta be a scorer like Nielson+, I agree, however I'd say Grabner + conditional 1st on making playoffs or it's a 2nd.
Maloney is high as a kite on Gormley. This coming from the same GM that fell in love with OEL. So the price is going to be astronomical. More than what any franchise could justify, save perhaps the Oilers.
The Coyotes would love to have Nielsen though. Stone is the next best after Gormley, and is NHL ready. I could see a trade involving those two.
Gotta be a scorer like Nielson+, I agree, however I'd say Grabner + conditional 1st on making playoffs or it's a 2nd.
Not gonna happen, it's not worth it for Phoenix who doesn't need a winger but need a legit center. Grabner doesn't fill a hole and neither does the draft pick; why should we trade a very valuable asset for spare parts?
Last edited by SixthSens: 01-12-2013 at 08:18 AM.
Reason: qep
Fact is; unless an NHL-grade center is the basis of the Islanders offer then there would be no deal. Phoenix need a center and would just do themselves a disservice to trade for other assets that are possibly an upgrade but not neccessary.
Grabner's contract is nasty. It's the exact opposite of what Maloney would acquire.
The Yotes don't have a lot of needs and aren't really looking to rock the boat much after the best season in club history. A center and a winger that can play in Tippett's system and preferably help out a league-worst PP is really all that's needed.
I'm open to something like Klesla for Bailey.
For Gormley, the price is going to be steep. We'd be looking for a sure-fire 1C. Otherwise, we'll wait. Are you sure you're still interested?
Not gonna happen, it's not worth it for Phoenix who doesn't need a winger but need a legit center. Grabner doesn't fill a hole and neither does the draft pick; why should we trade a very valuable asset for spare parts?
Not saying it's of equal worth, saying that it's what it'll take. ****, maybe it'll only take Nielsen + a first but I doubt anything less would do.
Even before Vis pulled his latest 'it's not you, it's me ' stunt , most hockey observors thought the isles were gonna be a draft lottery team.
Now, instead of having a solid vet in the top 4, the isles place a rookie with no NHL experience in that spot and expect to push for a playoff spot?
It's a 48 game season. Isles first round pick is likely to be in the running for Seth Jones, even with Gormley in their top 4.
No interest in moving the isles firstrounder, until after the draft lottery determines the draft order.
Grabner's contract is nasty. It's the exact opposite of what Maloney would acquire.
The Yotes don't have a lot of needs and aren't really looking to rock the boat much after the best season in club history. A center and a winger that can play in Tippett's system and preferably help out a league-worst PP is really all that's needed.
I'm open to something like Klesla for Bailey.
?
A season and a half of 30 yr old Klesha for 23 yr old Bailey...pass.
Isles have already pissed away a 2nd rounder in a deep draft, for Vis. Just because they have youngsters, doesn't mean they should squander them in desperate, short term moves.
I would rather get someone who fits into the age of the rebuild, who will be around for several yrs, if the isles are giving up on Bailey.
A season and a half of 30 yr old Klesha for 23 yr old Bailey...pass.
Isles have already pissed away a 2nd rounder in a deep draft, for Vis. Just because they have youngsters, doesn't mean they should squander them in desperate, short term moves.
I would rather get someone who fits into the age of the rebuild, who will be around for several yrs, if the isles are giving up on Bailey.
With Klesla, it's more a matter of whether or not he's a flight risk.
All things considered, the Isles need contractual control. With Klesla about to hit FA status, it simply isn't a case like Bailey where he's both younger and RFA who can be retained or dealt yet cannot simply walk. No one trades a good multi-year contract to another team and FA's like to ignore the Islanders, so the next best solution is simply to use contracts as leverage - draft well and hold those rights - if the player becomes superfluous at some point or shows that they'd benefit form a change in scenery, they're still valued thusly tradable for a smart return. Both teams win.
Bailey for Klesla isn't going to hold water. The Isles don't just trade for needs; they trade for the sort of contract leverage they won't get with Rostislav Klesla, or any other soon-to-be-UFA.
I didn't know gormley is going to be a star defenseman, wow. You want Nielsen and a first in a very deep draft which could be a top 5 pick, never going to happen.
Not that I don't want Gnormley, but the fact that the very first response asked for JT is a joke. The kid is a PROSPECT. Let's bring it back to reality people.
On this forum people ALWAYS over value their players and then when a trade is actually done, everyone gets pissed because their player was traded for so 'little'. So lets now try to be realistic here.
NHL forward - Bailey
Prospect - Sundstrom
This would probably be enough in the real world. I know that Coyote fans will be flipping saying 'no way!' but the fact is most real trades are for less than you think.
I didn't know gormley is going to be a star defenseman, wow. You want Nielsen and a first in a very deep draft which could be a top 5 pick, never going to happen.
I believe the Yotes had Gormley higher than Niederreiter that year. I can't remember the list, but they had Gormley at 5th or so. Although that was under Keith Gretzky. They've simply chosen/had the depth to take the long development route with him. But both Maloney and Tippett are very high on him.
Strome for Gormley is probably pretty close to fair. Im sure both fanbases would complain though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91
Yea okay
See. Strome for Gormley brought out a grumpy sarcastic NYI fan.
Winners of Best D at the WJC since the lockout:
Phaneuf (2005)
M. Staal (2006)
E. Johnson (2007)
Doughty (2008)
Karlsson (2009)
Pietrangelo (2010)
Ellis (2011) Gormley (2012)
Looks like a pretty good metric for NHL success... the worst one on there is still a top pairing D (Ellis is too young to judge, but I would say he's likely only a 2nd pairing guy)
He was also a 1st round pick, if you put value into such things. And going by HF Prospect rankings is I think 2 spots away from Strome. Yeaa their value is soo far apart... #BiasedIslandersFan
Strome for Gormley is probably pretty close to fair. Im sure both fanbases would complain though.
Came here to suggest the same. I think both can play right now. Makes perfect sense for both teams, as both players could have a more immediate impact with the team they are traded to than their current one. With the Isles Gormley is a lock to play in the top 4, in PHX I'm not so sure. Same can be said of Strome getting top 6 minutes.
Not that I don't want Gnormley, but the fact that the very first response asked for JT is a joke. The kid is a PROSPECT. Let's bring it back to reality people.On this forum people ALWAYS over value their players and then when a trade is actually done, everyone gets pissed because their player was traded for so 'little'. So lets now try to be realistic here.
NHL forward - Bailey
Prospect - Sundstrom
This would probably be enough in the real world. I know that Coyote fans will be flipping saying 'no way!' but the fact is most real trades are for less than you think.
...and then are people that undervalue some prospects. As far as acquiring Tavares for Gormley. Any Coyote fan would love to have that trade, so I don't see your point. The OP does not have an accurate rating of what The Coyotes think of Gormley. During his draft year they had him at 4-5 tied with Fowler (They felt that Fowler was more NHL ready, but Gormley had a higher ceiling), so where he dropped only meant that the Coyotes were lucky (and to think that the Islanders could have drafted him). Another presumption is the future plans. Just because he is not in the immediate plans, doesn't negate his value and the Coyotes would rather wait to see how he develops and reacts to the NHL before deciding on a roster spot. And to say that real trades are less than what we may perceive is inaccurate. Maloney tends to surprise us continually, that is why Coyote fans have him in such a high esteem.
Also at 48 contracts, while the Isle have ~44 means that the Isles can take on multiple contracts, not the Coyotes. Also with the Coyotes going all the way to the WCF and currently having an almost full NHL ready roster, the have the luxury of waiting for a prospect to work on his development as a priority and not rush him. The Coyotes may trade for a need if the asking price is too high of an asset. They have no reason to trade a young prospect for another. Maloney acquired Vermette for a 2nd, why would he trade a top prospect for less value?
