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Old
01-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #526
Vitto79
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
How is Boyle not a true third liner? That's ridiculous.
fans are silly, they expect a 3rd liner to score 20 goals.......first off Hagelin could be better suited for a 3rd line but he has the talent to be a 2nd line player......time will tell.........Boyle is a good defensive 3rd line C.

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01-12-2013, 01:23 PM
  #527
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I want my 3rd liners to have around 30 points, sure. But I also want more consistent even strength shifts than Boyle puts in. What I've read about Pyatt indicates the same thing. These guys can play on the 3rd line, but aren't what I consider 3rd liners.

Hagelin is similar, except he's a third liner than can play on the 2nd, or even first, line.

I don't know that there are many 3rd liners out there, but the more of these types of guys we have, the more likely we will see our 3rd line putting in 3rd line quality shifts.

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01-12-2013, 01:27 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I want my 3rd liners to have around 30 points, sure. But I also want more consistent even strength shifts than Boyle puts in. What I've read about Pyatt indicates the same thing. These guys can play on the 3rd line, but aren't what I consider 3rd liners.
Nobody - literally, nobody in the entire hockey world - cares what YOU consider a third liner. They are third liners. Pyatt has basically never played on the fourth line in his life, because that's not the game he plays, so unless you're suggesting he's a top-six guy, he's a third liner. He's played a regular shift there virtually his whole career. Boyle can play a fourth line game, but he's perfectly suited for a third line. You want thirty points out of your third liners? You're dreaming, as I just displayed. 191 players scored more than 30 points last season; 180 top-six players so... 11 third liners scored 30+. Good luck getting three on your team. Your third line is supposed to simply keep the puck deep, forecheck, produce SOME points and be able to play a good defensive shift. Boyle is more than capable of all of that and his production will increase by moving up a line.

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01-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #529
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so are we all going to poop ourselves if Redden actually gets traded by Sather? Imagine that!

I will really crap myself if its Redden for Gomez

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01-12-2013, 01:28 PM
  #530
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Pyatt played on the 4th line last season. And nobody, literally nobody, in the hockey world cares what any of us think.

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01-12-2013, 01:34 PM
  #531
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Pyatt played on the 4th line last season. And nobody, literally nobody, in the hockey world cares what any of us think.
You're always going to be disappointed if you have massively unrealistic expectations. Point being, you talk about what you consider a third liner as if it changes the truth of whose a third liner; it doesn't, no matter how insistent you are about it. I'm working within the reality of where the players will play and do play; you're working in your own reality of "well, I don't really consider those guys that play on the third line to be third liners". Good luck with that.

Pyatt played a little on the fourth line last year when he was in the dog house, but he did not play on the fourth line most of the season and I have no idea where you're pulling that from, and am inclined to believe you're simply making it up to support your argument. Last year, Phoenix's fourth line was mostly Gordon/Langkow (switched third/fourth), Torres, Chipchura, Bissonette.

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01-12-2013, 01:49 PM
  #532
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so are we all going to poop ourselves if Redden actually gets traded by Sather? Imagine that!

I will really crap myself if its Redden for Gomez
You'll never see Gomez playing for New York again unless it's in Islanders jersey. I would not be surprised but would be duly impressed if Sather could trade Redden. He's surprised me too many times.

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01-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #533
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Pyatt was 10th on the Coyotes in Even strength TOI/G. That means he was playing on the 4th line more than you've indicated.

What's hilarious here is a) using your own perceptions to decide that the way I said something means I consider it fact, b) your own description of a 3rd liner matches mine, minus the desire to have a 3rd liner get around 30 points and c) there are people on this board and people I talk to about hockey constantly that agree that Boyle isn't really what they consider a 3rd liner

It's just an opinion.

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01-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #534
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Most people share the same unrealistic expectations that you do because they're deluded by the video game era and think third liners score 20 goals and 30+ points.

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01-12-2013, 02:03 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I want my 3rd liners to have around 30 points, sure. But I also want more consistent even strength shifts than Boyle puts in. What I've read about Pyatt indicates the same thing. These guys can play on the 3rd line, but aren't what I consider 3rd liners.

Hagelin is similar, except he's a third liner than can play on the 2nd, or even first, line.

I don't know that there are many 3rd liners out there, but the more of these types of guys we have, the more likely we will see our 3rd line putting in 3rd line quality shifts.
What are you talking about? More consistent even strength shifts from Boyle? What more do you want?

You are basically asking for Selke caliber play from every 3rd liner.

Pyatt is certainly on a lower level than Boyle, but he's a decent 3rd liner himself.

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01-12-2013, 02:12 PM
  #536
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Enough with the hyperbole already. I'm not asking Boyle to be a Selke candidate. I'm not asking him to put up 20 goals. All I want is for him to be consistently noticeable in a positive way while playing in the offensive zone. He is not.

I actually like Boyle a lot and when people were talking about trading him last year, I was one of the first guys in there saying no. But I just don't think he should be playing on the third line.

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01-12-2013, 02:13 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Pyatt was 10th on the Coyotes in Even strength TOI/G. That means he was playing on the 4th line more than you've indicated.

What's hilarious here is a) using your own perceptions to decide that the way I said something means I consider it fact, b) your own description of a 3rd liner matches mine, minus the desire to have a 3rd liner get around 30 points and c) there are people on this board and people I talk to about hockey constantly that agree that Boyle isn't really what they consider a 3rd liner

It's just an opinion.
He's 10th on the list when you add Vermette's TOTAL ice time for the year, but Vermette came over from Columbus late in the season and the bulk of his minutes came from playing on the top line for CBJ. Without Vermette, who was not on the team most of the season, he's 9th. He also missed 9 games. He's a third liner. Sorry bro.

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01-12-2013, 02:27 PM
  #538
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Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with Pyatt getting 3rd line minutes. Hes being underrated here because hes not a big hitter or a big scorer.. this board doesn't appreciate the decent role players too well.

and Boyle is without a shadow of a doubt a good 3rd liner...

3rd line won't be our problem, 4th line and extra players will be. As of now, we have no one that I'd feel confident with jumping into the lineup should a forward go down.

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01-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #539
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just watched the nash interview on rangers website and he looks in good shape. seemed a bit leaner than he did at times with columbus.

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01-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #540
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Pyatt lays some really big hits actually, and averages about 2 hits per game. If you youtube Taylor Pyatt hits you'll be happily impressed.

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01-12-2013, 02:32 PM
  #541
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Don't worry about the lines, worry about the wins. The lines will change throughout the season as they always do.

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01-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #542
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Pyatt lays some really big hits actually, and averages about 2 hits per game. If you youtube Taylor Pyatt hits you'll be happily impressed.







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01-12-2013, 02:39 PM
  #543
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Old
01-12-2013, 02:44 PM
  #544
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Pair McBain with Staal to cover some of his defensive lapses and I think he could flourish. The offense is there. Question becomes whether or not he can surpass what Stralman already brings, or if he's utlimately the same guy who's a couple years younger.
A couple of things.

-If Sauers future is questionable, we gotta get a RD that really counts. Dan Girardi is of flesh and blood like the rest of us, and with McI on the rise we gotta count on DG missing some time sooner or later and when both are healthy, we will not get much offense from them.

Just like you need a 2nd line center with some kind of offensive upside, you need one right D who are good offensively. That is definitely the biggest "hole" we have in the lineup. We don't have anyone on the roster even remotely nor anyone on the depth charts. In Torts system, they are also really valuble and necessary to have. We definitely tend to stiff up for long stretches when we get nothing going offensively and are easy to contain. A "Dan Boyle" (in his prime) definitely helps alot in those situations.

Id definitely be prepared to get a really nifty offensiveminded RD. That would really complete our blueline. Is McBain really the right guy? I just don't see it. He is a decent shooter with little puckmoving ability.

-Puck moving D's need more time then players in any other position to get to know their team and teammates. Forwards learn how a D passes the puck and a D learns how forward wants the puck. That does take some time, and we have seen examples of it time after time after time.

Strålman has played almost a full season in NY now. Torts cuts his ice time for stints, but generally he was used alot and did a fine job. Strålman just turned 26 y/o and is still about to enter his prime (offensive D's peak around and after their 30's). He got a couple of kids already and got a perfect attitude in terms of being devoted to the game and not being out partying etc.

There are worse stop gaps than Strålman, a cheap kid already under contract and AS does have a little potential for sure. I wouldn't make a change unless we could get someone who really seem worth it.

-There has been a shortage of those nifty offensiveminded right handed D's in this league lately. But, they are not that uncommon and there seem to be many on their way up and many who just recently has established themselves.

They are also not tremendously costly. Its always a matter of being able to carry them too. For a young rebuilding team, any lack of defensive responsibilty might be a issue. For us, with Hank as well as McD, Staal, Girardi, McI and Sauer (?), we could definitely without any problem be able to carry a young Dan Boyle defensively.

So, I basically just don't think its wishing for the moon to hope that Slats will be able to pick up a RH QB D.

I am not that thrilled about making big moves right now. We have already made alot of big changes, and will need to gather this group of players first and get back to where we were last season with the additional top end ability we have now. But, when that has been done, I don't think any price that does not break our core (from a broder picture, basically the top 15 players in NY), is not to expensive if the return is a kid who can step in and run our PP and shoot from the right. Like I love JT Miller, but its hard to argue that trading Miller, Skeij and a 2nd for a young Dan Boyle on a ELC would not make sense for this team (players in bold are potential upgrades):
Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Gaborik-Stepan-Callahan
Kreider-Boyle(/Ozzy Lindberg)-Pyatt/Fasth
Asham-Halpern-Rupp
McD-Girardi
Staal-"A young Dan Boyle"
MDZ-Sauer/McI


After these names, our farm are pretty thin for sure. Extremely thin in relation to previous years. Many would be afraid of that, but I definitely wouldn't. Of those names (besides the 4th line), only 3 are close to or just older than 30 (!). We could definitely get by without getting 1-2 players per year from the farm. And, due to the cap in the near future, we will need to move players sooner or laters. Young good hockey players that has a ton of value on the markets. And those young valuble players will not be moved for costly vets, that would defy the purpose, they would be moved for picks and prospects. So, we will be able to get a cheap youth influence when we wants to, if we move basically any single of the top 13-14 players on that roster.

Ryan Ellis, David Rundblad, Ryan Murphy, Slava Voynov and Kevin Shattenkirk are names that I can think of of the top of my head, and there are many others (some of them I've not seen that much of lately, others I've seen more fo). Heck, on the Caps I rather take a gamble on Faulk than McBain...

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01-12-2013, 02:59 PM
  #545
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Faulk will cost triple what McBain would cost. I don't think McBain would be targeted as the guy you're describing, but rather a solid RH D with some offensive upside able to contribute in the immediate. I believe a future RH D with much better puck moving and offensive upside is still necessary, but for right now, McBain would be a fine option depending on the price. Goligoski would be an ideal pickup as he is already where he needs to be in his development in order to help us out quite a bit. I like most of the guys you listed as well, but the likelihood of acquiring most of them is slim. In my opinion, we won't make any impact moves. McBain will not be a big deal if we acquire him. It will be a non-blue chip and a pick, IMO, or we won't do it.

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01-12-2013, 03:44 PM
  #546
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I want my 3rd liners to have around 30 points, sure. But I also want more consistent even strength shifts than Boyle puts in. What I've read about Pyatt indicates the same thing. These guys can play on the 3rd line, but aren't what I consider 3rd liners.

Hagelin is similar, except he's a third liner than can play on the 2nd, or even first, line.

I don't know that there are many 3rd liners out there, but the more of these types of guys we have, the more likely we will see our 3rd line putting in 3rd line quality shifts.
Brian Boyle is a 3rd line center. I'll also add that he's pretty much been our 3rd line center for the last two years. If you look at a line up, then you might see him centering a fourth line, but Tortorella clearly used him in more pressure situations, and shut down situations than a guy like Anisimov last year. His ice time at even strength will likely go up, but I don't think it will rise that significantly from what it's been, and he'll be playing with more talented line mates. His numbers should go up from where they were last season, but I think we can all agree that he's not here to score 25 goals. He'll chip in a little bit though, and that'll be while playing well on the PK, and taking many defensive zone draws.

In regards to Pyatt, the guy is a very nice third liner. I think we learned that big players can really wear down a defense in last years playoffs (LA). Trying to play physically against guys like Boyle and Pyatt late in the game will tire other teams defensemen out - especially in a long series. Also, don't underrate Pyatt. He's not here to lead the team, but he'll be a solid contributor.

Edit: Brian Boyle is extremely consistent. He plays hard every game, and gets the puck deep. He just doesn't score consistently--- which isn't his role.


Last edited by Barnaby: 01-12-2013 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Addition
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01-12-2013, 04:41 PM
  #547
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Enough with the hyperbole already. I'm not asking Boyle to be a Selke candidate. I'm not asking him to put up 20 goals. All I want is for him to be consistently noticeable in a positive way while playing in the offensive zone. He is not.

I actually like Boyle a lot and when people were talking about trading him last year, I was one of the first guys in there saying no. But I just don't think he should be playing on the third line.

I do feel like when I see Boyle have a good offensive shift I need to buy a lotto ticket. But I also think his overall game is worthy of the 3rd line. Again that nastiness he displayed against Ott is something that wuld elevate his overall game tremendously. A big body doesn't have to be thrown around but being a nasty SOB can help you use it correctly to intimidate guys. Really Boyle needs to be a bully and a jerk out there to play his best.

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01-12-2013, 04:48 PM
  #548
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Ryan Ellis, David Rundblad, Ryan Murphy, Slava Voynov and Kevin Shattenkirk are names that I can think of of the top of my head, and there are many others (some of them I've not seen that much of lately, others I've seen more fo). Heck, on the Caps I rather take a gamble on Faulk than McBain...
I've been advocating the Voynov trade for two years now.

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01-12-2013, 05:00 PM
  #549
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I've been advocating the Voynov trade for two years now.
There's no question he's a great young talent, but what would LA want from us? He certainly won't be cheap.

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01-12-2013, 05:46 PM
  #550
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Brian Boyle is a 3rd line center. I'll also add that he's pretty much been our 3rd line center for the last two years. If you look at a line up, then you might see him centering a fourth line, but Tortorella clearly used him in more pressure situations, and shut down situations than a guy like Anisimov last year. His ice time at even strength will likely go up, but I don't think it will rise that significantly from what it's been, and he'll be playing with more talented line mates. His numbers should go up from where they were last season, but I think we can all agree that he's not here to score 25 goals. He'll chip in a little bit though, and that'll be while playing well on the PK, and taking many defensive zone draws.

In regards to Pyatt, the guy is a very nice third liner. I think we learned that big players can really wear down a defense in last years playoffs (LA). Trying to play physically against guys like Boyle and Pyatt late in the game will tire other teams defensemen out - especially in a long series. Also, don't underrate Pyatt. He's not here to lead the team, but he'll be a solid contributor.

Edit: Brian Boyle is extremely consistent. He plays hard every game, and gets the puck deep. He just doesn't score consistently--- which isn't his role.
You think Boyle will be playing with more talented linemates than last year? I don't remember his linemates last year. Were they Prust and Feds? Because I've been under the impression that our 3rd line will be weaker this year. Then again if you put Hags on his line, that's an upgrade in talent.

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