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Old
01-12-2013, 06:39 PM
  #26
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Dude, Bozak is better than Raymond. That one's not a debate.
Based on what?

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:40 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I am at a werid spot with this trade cause to me it can 1 of 3 ways

1. We get luongo for a reasonable price, fill the MASSIVE hole in goal and the team starts to round into fotm this is what I think happens.

2 We don't get luongo BUT reimer stays healthy and discovers the form he had as rookie the team proves to have a much younger, cheaper #1 goalie.

3. we don't get luongo team is crap goes on a mini rebuild keeps gardiner and Reilley adds a 1st rounder or 2 by trading lupul, possibly kessel, macarthur but keeps the likes of JVR Gardiner, Reilley adds, another blue chip prospect in Mackion, Jones, Barkov and uses their cap space in an effort to do a philly style rebuild they did in 2007

personally any way this goes i'm good there is no bad path to me
This is how I see it. If we can get Luongo cheaply great. If we dont and Reimer steps up great. If neither of those happen then we get a chance to tear things down and build the team the right way.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Dude, Bozak is better than Raymond. That one's not a debate.
Raymond's best season (25 goals 53 points) is better than Bozak's.

True, Raymond hasn't been very good the last couple seasons, but he was coming off a very serious injury last year.

I think "Bozak > Raymond AINEC" is certainly debatable...

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Bozak = Raymond
Kadri = Schroeder

anymore?

Frattin = Hansen?


Both sides, remember this when you make a proposals.
Franson = Barker
MacArthur or Kulemin = Higgins or Raymond or Hansen

Any way, new elements to our roster would be JVR, Grabovski, Lupul (UFA), possibly Gunnarson, Gardiner, Kessel and Phaneuf. The last three keep getting labelled as untouchable, and no package of the others that Leafs fans would be willing to give us is sufficient value, so let's bring in the NYI/Philadelphia guy again.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Agreed. And at this point I think Kadri has the edge even just on AHL output vs Schroeder.
Kadri has 6 more points in 59 less games than Schroeder at the AHL level.

It really isn't close.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Kadri has 6 more points in 59 less games than Schroeder at the AHL level.

It really isn't close.
You don't know about/watch much our farm team & know the system they play do you?

No high end d men to pass the puck aka NO PUCK MOVEMENT. Tanev is the leading scorer on D for the Wolves. Yes thats right Tanev.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
This is how I see it. If we can get Luongo cheaply great. If we dont and Reimer steps up great. If neither of those happen then we get a chance to tear things down and build the team the right way.
I just hope you don't value 2nd or 3rd picks with Nonis at the helm. We had a lot of bad, bad, bad rentals for those kinds of picks in the past. I don't mean that as a shot, but more as a warning of sorts, I hope his drafting is as good in Toronto as it was been here, 2007 excluded.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Hansen is better than Fratting, but Bozak is also better than Raymond.
That is debatable. Raymond gets a lot of hate by Canucks fans. It's because he's so fast and has the tools to be more than he's shown. That and falling down. However, you can't judge him on last year's performance after coming back from Boychuk breaking his back in the finals. He has had a 25 goal, 53 point season. That was while shuffling between the second and third line. Bozak had a great season last year, but his numbers were heavily propped up by his line mates. Raymond is a fantastic penalty killer. He is criminally underrated by Canucks fans, but is a second line winger on most teams in the NHL. The Canucks fans also knock him for his size/lack of grit. He isn't the useless trade bait fodder that some people make him out to be.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
You don't know about/watch much our farm team & know the system they play do you?

No high end d men to pass the puck aka NO PUCK MOVEMENT. Tanev is the leading scorer on D for the Wolves. Yes thats right Tanev.
Doesn't make it any less true.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
You don't know about/watch much our farm team & know the system they play do you?

No high end d men to pass the puck aka NO PUCK MOVEMENT. Tanev is the leading scorer on D for the Wolves. Yes thats right Tanev.
That's nice and if it were close, I could buy such an explanation. It is not. Kadri has far outproduced Schroeder at the AHL level.

The fact that Tanev is the leading point getter on the Wolves arguably speaks more to your lack of quality forward prospects than a system.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
That is debatable. Raymond gets a lot of hate by Canucks fans. It's because he's so fast and has the tools to be more than he's shown. That and falling down. However, you can't judge him on last year's performance after coming back from Boychuk breaking his back in the finals. He has had a 25 goal, 53 point season. That was while shuffling between the second and third line. Bozak had a great season last year, but his numbers were heavily propped up by his line mates. Raymond is a fantastic penalty killer. He is criminally underrated by Canucks fans, but is a second line winger on most teams in the NHL. The Canucks fans also knock him for his size/lack of grit. He isn't the useless trade bait fodder that some people make him out to be.
I just don't see a proper fit if we recieve any kind of forward in a trade for Luongo, as it stands now we're looking at Sedin-Sedin-Burrows, Higgins-Kesler-Booth, Raymond-Lapierre-Hansen...it's mismanagement of his skills, but we simply don't have room to keep him later, so I'd rather see him traded for a set bottom six forward or a RHD 2nd/bottom pairing defender that can work with our team.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Agreed. And at this point I think Kadri has the edge even just on AHL output vs Schroeder.
The Wolves stink, so Schroeder's numbers will be lower, but he plays well in his own end. AV does not have patience for young players that have holes defensively. I think both prospects have high and low points, but they aren't too far apart right now. Kadri does have a higher ceiling though.

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Yea MacKenzie, Kyper and Shannon all care about Nonis's bargaining power.
Who do you think they are getting their info from? You guessed it, Nonis, Burke and Anselmi. Why would leaf ownership and management leak info that is detrimental to their club?

Burke himself said he wasn't fired for personal reasons. If it was due to the Leafs record why would it happen now and not at years end?

Something has likely happened in the last few weeks that has led to Burke's firing. What has Burke been working on? The Luongo trade is the only thing being reported...

And when Duthie asked Burke if it had anything to do with Luongo he didn't say no. He did however angrily say 'ask them'. If it had nothing to do with Luongo, why didn't he put the speculation to rest and say no?

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I just don't see a proper fit if we recieve any kind of forward in a trade for Luongo, as it stands now we're looking at Sedin-Sedin-Burrows, Higgins-Kesler-Booth, Raymond-Lapierre-Hansen...it's mismanagement of his skills, but we simply don't have room to keep him later, so I'd rather see him traded for a set bottom six forward or a RHD 2nd/bottom pairing defender that can work with our team.
I'm not advocating trading Raymond. I think he is ready to get back to his production of a few seasons ago. He's only 26 and went through a really tough injury.

I'm just arguing the statement that Bozak is somehow better and it not being debatable. That's silly.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:01 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
That's nice and if it were close, I could buy such an explanation. It is not. Kadri has far outproduced Schroeder at the AHL level.

The fact that Tanev is the leading point getter on the Wolves arguably speaks more to your lack of forward prospects than a system.
Watch the Wolves vs Heat tonight for a first hand example.

Many times Schroeder makes great plays but has no one to finish them because he plays with players that don't have high hockey IQ. He is mainly a playmaker but has been forced to shoot more. In the NCAA his A to G ratio was so much higher then it was when he came to our offensive black hole farm team. Give him players that can snipe & I bet his assists rise.

Also Tanev is the lead D point getter, not on the entire team.


edit:

Numbers is right, no Schroeder tonight. At Van camp.


Last edited by Scottrockztheworld*: 01-12-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old
01-12-2013, 07:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Watch the Wolves vs Heat tonight for a first hand example.

Many times Schroeder makes great plays but has no one to finish them because he plays with players that don't have high hockey IQ. He is mainly a playmaker but has been forced to shoot more. In the NCAA his A to G ratio was so much higher then it was when he came to our offensive black hole farm team. Give him players that can snipe & I bet his assists rise.

Also Tanev is the lead D point getter, not on the entire team.
Don't think those guys will be in the lineup tonight though.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I'm not advocating trading Raymond. I think he is ready to get back to his production of a few seasons ago. He's only 26 and went through a really tough injury.

I'm just arguing the statement that Bozak is somehow better and it not being debatable. That's silly.
I more or less agree...there certainly isn't a wide margin of difference between the two.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:11 PM
  #43
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I'm not advocating trading Raymond. I think he is ready to get back to his production of a few seasons ago. He's only 26 and went through a really tough injury.

I'm just arguing the statement that Bozak is somehow better and it not being debatable. That's silly.
Oh I know, just thought I'd expand a little. We don't throw him into trades because he doesn't have value or the ability to play for us...just we might not have a fit for him. Bozak, in terms what position he can play, is more interesting then another tweener winger when he have, arguably, too many.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Burke said that wasnt true.
Nonis said that wasnt true.
The president of MLSE said that wasnt true.
Bob MacKenzie and Darren Dregger said that wasnt true.
Kyper and Shannon said that wasnt true.

But keep clinging to that fantasy.
Might not have been the only reason but it was pbbly the straw that broke the camel's back.

All examples you list are either Leaf's parent company employees or relatives of Leafs' employees, except for Bob Mac who might as well be an employee. Actually he's a fan so there goes his credibility.

Obviously they are going to deny as admitting it would increase Lu value even more.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:14 PM
  #45
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Someone should tally how many of these threads we've had, I hope this ends tomorrow

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:21 PM
  #46
Cogburn
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Someone should tally how many of these threads we've had, I hope this ends tomorrow
With a headline of "Schneider traded to Boston for Thomas" or something of the sorts, with a subheading concerning Thomas's announced retirement.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:21 PM
  #47
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Got to be nearing fifty Luongo threads.

Fun fact: I made the first one halfway through last season

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...701&highlight=

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:23 PM
  #48
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Fun fact: I made the first one halfway through last season
How is that fun? That like admitting you made the Atom bomb

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:24 PM
  #49
Cogburn
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Might not have been the only reason but it was pbbly the straw that broke the camel's back.

All examples you list are either Leaf's parent company employees or relatives of Leafs' employees, except for Bob Mac who might as well be an employee. Actually he's a fan so there goes his credibility.

Obviously they are going to deny as admitting it would increase Lu value even more.
See, I don't think it's as clandestine as that. I think its more just everyone concerned, from the MLSE and Burke camps, saying "don't worry about it, it happened, move on" then strategic. I don't think philosophy or potential trades can be dismissed entirely from the equation, but past transactions, the team failing to get a whiff of playoffs in his 4 years despite promises, personality...it's a rich tapestry and odd timing. Who knows, maybe everyone concerned just wants to sell papers?

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:24 PM
  #50
Inverted
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Someone should tally how many of these threads we've had, I hope this ends tomorrow
It wont stop there, once Bobby Lu is traded, fans of both teams would start threads how they got fleeced and their GM's should be fired.


Last edited by Inverted: 01-12-2013 at 07:29 PM. Reason: typo
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