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Lupul OR Phaneuf for Stastny

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:37 PM
  #51
TheSilencer
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Originally Posted by Ampedx View Post
He's healthy now, why couldn't he do this again especially entering a contract year? And I'm talking about him coming off a career year which makes his value high, he can be extended. Stastny is a 50pt player making 6.6m now, poor value for high value.
Lupul wasn't a PPG player or close to it even when he was healthy in his career. This was the ONLY season he has ever produced at that pace. No GM is gonna be sold on calling Lupul a PPG all star unless he can repeat his performance. This is similar to when our fans were calling Kulemin untouchable because he's a "young budding power forward".

If players' values fluctuated like this following their career best/career worst year, NHL would be a circus. We'd be seeing Zetterberg proposals everyday because he has "poor value".

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01-12-2013, 07:55 PM
  #52
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Leafs fan logic, 26th highest scoring Centre in the league, 3rd line Centre. If Stastny is a 3rd line Centre then the Leafs must've had 4 four line centres last season.

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01-12-2013, 08:26 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheSilencer View Post
Lupul wasn't a PPG player or close to it even when he was healthy in his career. This was the ONLY season he has ever produced at that pace. No GM is gonna be sold on calling Lupul a PPG all star unless he can repeat his performance. This is similar to when our fans were calling Kulemin untouchable because he's a "young budding power forward".

If players' values fluctuated like this following their career best/career worst year, NHL would be a circus. We'd be seeing Zetterberg proposals everyday because he has "poor value".
When he was younger and healthy did he have the same role he has today? The minutes, pp time, the experience? All im saying he was a PPG All star last year, and he's shown he's a capable of being a top 6 legit winger. He's also had close to 50 pt seasons in his previous years in lesser roles, similar to Stastny in the present.

Kulemin is a terrible example because of what he had to play through last year with the Yaroslavl crash. It was clearly affecting his play and someone just doesn't have a down year like that all of a sudden after potting 30 goals.

Also, on players values, I'm not talking about acquiring Stastny because of his "low value", I'm doing so because the team he's on is deep at his position. Zetterberg can be under performing but hasn't slipped in the depth chart and with DET still being competitive it makes sense there aren't Zetterberg proposals everyday.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:32 PM
  #54
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I'd be more inclinded to offer along the lines of things that have Kadri,Colb,Finn,Percy,2013 2nd,Boz,Frat,Blacker?

In the mix.

Maybe Dion.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:38 PM
  #55
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Atrocious... Once again -.-

Our 3 centers all belong to our core 5-7 guys.
We got a young and talented core.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that our core right now is more talented and deep than the Leafs core.

So if you want one of our top assets, you better offer one of your top 4-5 assets.

So if you are not atleast offering up Gardiner+,Reilly+, Kessel, maybe Phaneuf (ugh hate him) or 1st rnd picks, you better save us the time and don't even bother.

The Avs are solid in goal, they've got great center and wing depth. They also have way too many depth dmen (#4, #5 and #6 dman )
What they need is first and foremost a #1/#2 LHD dman to play alongside EJ. A secondary need would be a goalscoring winger (sniper).

We really don't need unproven players or prospects at all for our young!! proven talent. If you want to pay us in picks and prospects, expect to get bent over valuewise. It makes no sense for this organisation to take a step back otherwise.

That basically rules out Reilly, Gardiner and your pick.
Phaneuf is the Leafs captain and does not seem like the kind of guy Avs management would acquire at all.
Kessel is interesting but basically untradeable and too much of a risk for the Avs because there is no reason why he would not bolt for big money in a year and a half.

There is no trade to be made between TOR and COL where one of our 3 top centers heads to Toronto (only exception might be if the ROR situation goes south but even then I don't think TOR will or can pay what the Avs would want now that Gardiner is concussed (Avs are not fond of concussed players at all e.g. Mueller)

If Colorado decides to put a center on the market, they will probably call 10 other teams before they dial the number of Mr. Nonis...

So can those threads stop?


Last edited by JoemAvs: 01-12-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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Old
01-12-2013, 08:43 PM
  #56
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Where is the 3rd rounder to put the deal over the top?

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:49 PM
  #57
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Maybe Phaneuf for Statsny makes more sense? Swap decent but overpaid players at positions of need? Not sure there is a market for Lupul.

Although with Burke gone I'm sure the Leafs want less Americans and more good ol' Ontario boys...

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Atrocious... Once again -.-

Our 3 centers all belong to our core 5-7 guys.
We got a young and talented core.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that our core right now is more talented and deep than the Leafs core.

So if you want one of our top assets, you better offer one of your top 4-5 assets.

So if you are not atleast offering up Gardiner+,Reilly+, Kessel, maybe Phaneuf (ugh hate him) or 1st rnd picks, you better save us the time and don't even bother.

The Avs are solid in goal, they've got great center and wing depth. They also have way too many depth dmen (#4, #5 and #6 dman )
What they need is first and foremost a #1/#2 LHD dman to play alongside EJ. A secondary need would be a goalscoring winger (sniper).

We really don't need unproven players or prospects at all for our young!! proven talent. If you want to pay us in picks and prospects, expect to get bent over valuewise. No sense for this organisation to take a step back otherwise.

That basically rules out Reilly, Gardiner and your pick.
Phaneuf is the Leafs captain and does not seem like the kind of guy Avs management would acquire at all.
Kessel is interesting but basically untradeable and too much of a risk for the Avs because there is no reason why he would not bolt for big money in a year and a half.

There is no trade to be made between TOR and COL where one of our 3 top centers go to Toronto (only exception might be if the ROR situation goes south but even then I don't think TOR will or can pay what the Avs would want now that Gardiner is concussed (Avs are not fond of concussed players at all e.g. Mueller)

If Colorado decides to put a center on the market, they will probably call 10 other teams before they dial the number of Mr. Nonis...

So can those threads stop?
Well actually some of the names/things i posted do fit into the teams young time frame, don't get me wrong i ain't trying to fleece anyone here.

There are just some things TO cannot afford to trade, Reil,Gard,2013 1rst i would hope are on that list.

I get where you are coming from Col has no cap issues moving forward and your depth upfront can be envied, no doubt.

TBH, Stast contract and the slight decline over the years does have some drag on his value. I'm not really sure he is still in the bonafied blue chip return range anymore.

Damn close but 6.6 is hefty and i find it a little ironic that you would post concerns over Kessels UFA timeline when he is eligible the same year Stast is.

Actually 27 is not considered young anymore by league average, these days thats middle aged.

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Old
01-12-2013, 09:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Actually 27 is not considered young anymore by league average, these days thats middle aged.
Tell that to the teams dying to give 27-28 year olds Zach Parise, Shea Weber, Ryan Suter 15 year deals to build around for the future....27 is not middle age. 26-32 is pretty much prime years.

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Old
01-12-2013, 09:04 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampedx View Post
When he was younger and healthy did he have the same role he has today? The minutes, pp time, the experience? All im saying he was a PPG All star last year, and he's shown he's a capable of being a top 6 legit winger. He's also had close to 50 pt seasons in his previous years in lesser roles, similar to Stastny in the present.

Kulemin is a terrible example because of what he had to play through last year with the Yaroslavl crash. It was clearly affecting his play and someone just doesn't have a down year like that all of a sudden after potting 30 goals.

Also, on players values, I'm not talking about acquiring Stastny because of his "low value", I'm doing so because the team he's on is deep at his position. Zetterberg can be under performing but hasn't slipped in the depth chart and with DET still being competitive it makes sense there aren't Zetterberg proposals everyday.
I'm pretty sure he got a significant role in Philidelphia and in Anaheim the second time around. No way did it take until the age of 28 and a few teams later for a team to finally give him such a role. I'm betting last season was an outlier year for him and I don't think he'll be able to sustain it.

And don't make excuses for Kulemin. He wasn't the only person affected by the Yaroslavl crash. It could simply be he had a great year and just struggled the next. That happens a lot. His shot % went down as well.

And while your Zetteberg example makes sense, Detroit can use Dats, Zette and Filpulla as Centers which would give them great depth in that position as well. Stastny has garnered somewhat of a low reputation here and despite being a top center, people think the Avs are itching to get rid of him

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Old
01-12-2013, 09:13 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Well actually some of the names/things i posted do fit into the teams young time frame, don't get me wrong i ain't trying to fleece anyone here.

There are just some things TO cannot afford to trade, Reil,Gard,2013 1rst i would hope are on that list.

I get where you are coming from Col has no cap issues moving forward and your depth upfront can be envied, no doubt.

TBH, Stast contract and the slight decline over the years does have some drag on his value. I'm not really sure he is still in the bonafied blue chip return range anymore.

Damn close but 6.6 is hefty and i find it a little ironic that you would post concerns over Kessels UFA timeline when he is eligible the same year Stast is.

Actually 27 is not considered young anymore by league average, these days thats middle aged.
Well I understand that TOR can't move them. That is why I said these proposals don't make sense.
In theory TOR can acquire any player in this league. Offer Kessel, Gardiner, Reilly and your next 5 1st rounders and you could probably entice Pittsburgh to trade Crosby.
Does it make sense? Not at all.
I agree that the general trade value of Paul may have declined.

But the Avs need him.ROR is in limbo and he and Duchene are only 21. If you want to make the playoffs, handing the keys to two 21 yr old centers is not the right thing to do.
The last few years we did not have enough good wingers to supply Duchene , Stastny and ROR with.

Stastny often got the short end of the stick when it came to his wingers.
His goal totals stayed pretty much the same he just had fewer assists.
That is not a coincidence. That is why I (and it looks like many Leafs fans are on board with my opinion) believe that he can easily "bounce back" and produce more points this year.
His cap hit does not concern us. We have plenty of capspace

You are right. They are both UFAs in 2014. The difference is that Paul has major history with the Avs and is much much much more likely to stay with the Avs and he certainly should be cheaper than Kessel on their new contracts.
And Kessels first negotiations did not exactly go smooth.
So I don't like him on the Avs because I don't think we could keep him longterm on a halfway decent contract.

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01-12-2013, 09:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Tell that to the teams dying to give 27-28 year olds Zach Parise, Shea Weber, Ryan Suter 15 year deals to build around for the future....27 is not middle age. 26-32 is pretty much prime years.
Just telling you what the average/middle age in the league is now and thats around 27.

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01-12-2013, 09:46 PM
  #63
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Lupul is kind of a gamble. He plays well in some situations, and utterly horrible in others. Any team moving for him would pretty much need to make sure they have the right fit for him. I'm not sure Colorado has that fit.

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01-12-2013, 09:56 PM
  #64
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Lupul is kind of a gamble. He plays well in some situations, and utterly horrible in others. Any team moving for him would pretty much need to make sure they have the right fit for him. I'm not sure Colorado has that fit.
What situations does he play "utterly horrible" in? If you don't mind elaborating.

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01-12-2013, 10:04 PM
  #65
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Your paying a third line centre 6.6m and you upgrade your top 6. Your also acquiring expiring contracts heading into a pretty deep FA class in 2013.
Let me guess...you think Luongo and Schneider are both backup goalies right?

Stastny is a top line center like Backes or Krejci are. Not elite but he's far better than the legions of crap in toronto.

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01-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  #66
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Let me guess...you think Luongo and Schneider are both backup goalies right?

Stastny is a top line center like Backes or Krejci are. Not elite but he's far better than the legions of crap in toronto.
I was referring to Stastny being COL 3rd centre behind Duchene and OReilly. Use your common sense, If he was actually a 3rd line centre do u think any leafs fans would be interested?

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01-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Maybe Phaneuf for Statsny makes more sense? Swap decent but overpaid players at positions of need? Not sure there is a market for Lupul.

Although with Burke gone I'm sure the Leafs want less Americans and more good ol' Ontario boys...
I'd like to know what COL fans think of this, if your main need is a D. It would take awhile but I think I'd pull the trigger on Phaneuf for Stastny.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:53 PM
  #68
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Its certainly better than Lupul, Phaneuf holds a lot more value then Lupul.

Still not sure I'd pull the trigger as an Avs fan. I'd rather get someone younger who many not be as good as Phaneuf right now, but has the potential to be even better than him.

It's a lot closer though.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:54 PM
  #69
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Imagine the hilarity if Stastny actually was traded to Leafs today.

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01-12-2013, 10:56 PM
  #70
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Its certainly better than Lupul, Phaneuf holds a lot more value then Lupul.

Still not sure I'd pull the trigger as an Avs fan. I'd rather get someone younger who many not be as good as Phaneuf right now, but has the potential to be even better than him.

It's a lot closer though.
That's fair dude, I've updated the thread because of this.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:57 PM
  #71
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Brian Burke
7th 2013 (Condition)

for

Stastny

???????????

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01-12-2013, 11:25 PM
  #72
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Brian Burke
7th 2013 (Condition)

for

Stastny

???????????
I really hope your not serious. I'm fine with Sherman right now. Our trade that involved a 1st round pick didn't backfire in our faces. Plus we've managed to actually fill holes in our line-ups unlike the Leafs.

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:26 PM
  #73
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http://theleafsnation.com/2012/8/8/t...frey-lupul-now

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:29 PM
  #74
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For Luongo.

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:33 PM
  #75
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For Luongo.
Always a Vancouver fan bringing Luongo into Leafs threads.

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