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Duchene for Gardiner (or similar defenseman) Discussion

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:08 PM
  #26
CobraAcesS
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I have to echo what my fellow Avs fans have said about Duchene being the last to be traded.

Stastny & O'Reilly are far more likely, and again not for Gardiner straight up... O'Reilly & Kulikov has been discussed a bit, and even that gets some mixed reviews. (That comes from them both being RFA's)

I think what most Avs fans hope is that we keep all three of our centers and one of Barrie or Elliott stick sometime soon as a top 4 offensive defender. We can survive as long as we get at least some offense infused into our defense.

Most likely we will continue to try and fill that top pairing LH spot through free-agency, unless of course we can trade for someone like Yandle once our younger assets are more proven.

One thing Colorado brass may be thinking about is...

What if we can get a guy like Sgarbossa or/and Barrie to break out? If that happens all of the sudden Colorado has a couple of pieces we can use to get someone more experienced like Yandle.

What if Barrie sticks and puts up 20 points this season? And Sgarbossa produces 10 points in 20 or so call-up games? We don't really need a offensive right handed Defender nearly as much as we need a young LH defenseman.

Colorado has a lot of unproven depth that is starting to hit the pros, we need to be patient. If Duchene has a bounce back year, we really do have a perfect set of three centers. One pure offensive guy (Duchene), one responsible playmaker (Stastny), and one defense first playmaker (O'Reilly). That really is a perfect combination for our #1 #2 and #3 center positions.

The other possibility is that we keep whoever our best two centers are, and trade the third for a defender. That would create a hole at the #3 center position, but we could most likely fix that through free-agency with guys like Bozak & Zajac possibly hitting the market.

In order for the second option to happen though, I believe that it would need to be fairly clear by the deadline that we were not going to contend for a playoff spot.

So all in all as much as the entire hockey world knows Colorado is looking for a young #2 LH defender... There are just to many questions to be answered before a trade is the right option.

My personal preference is Stastny or O'Reilly for Yandle, IF we were forced to make a trade now. Yandle has a bit more experience and Phoenix not only needs a top 6 center, but has OEL as their #1. Along with having the depth to trade someone like Yandle.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 01-12-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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Old
01-12-2013, 06:13 PM
  #27
Tomahawk Patch
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how about Leddy, Stalberg, Mark McNeill for O'Reilly

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Old
01-12-2013, 06:23 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk Patch View Post
how about Leddy, Stalberg, Mark McNeill for O'Reilly
I wouldn't do it personally, at least not until Leddy proves himself a bit more.

For me Yandle is the only one who is available for the right reasons. Leddy is available because he has question marks (especially about how defensively responsible he wants to be), Gardiner is all of the sudden available (at least seemingly from Leafs fans) because hes had concussion issues and Reilly was drafted.

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01-12-2013, 06:24 PM
  #29
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01-12-2013, 07:07 PM
  #30
Lonewolfe2015
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Every single defender in the OP is better than Gardiner, some worth more than Duchene. I can't even begin to understand how the OP chose these players when saying Gardiner or a player in his realm.

If the Avs made this trade we'd immediately be mocked by Leafs fans for how badly we lost the trade.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:21 PM
  #31
MastuhNinks
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I'd be fine with basing a deal around Gardiner for any of the Avs 'big 3' centers. Obviously the Leafs would add, but I think it's a decent starting point. The question is what would they want...

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01-12-2013, 07:27 PM
  #32
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01-12-2013, 08:37 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
Leafs would say yes every day of the week.
Leafs would say yes in a ****ing heartbeat. That trade would be highway robbery. Not every leafs fan is an idiot.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:47 PM
  #34
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Jake Gardiner hasn't done anything yet. He's certainly not as good as Erik Johnson and may not ever be.

Duchene is like 21 years old - and already has accomplished a lot. Had a tough year with injuries but way to early to give up on him, especially for a guy like Gardiner.

I get Leafs fans are high on Gardiner but you have to wait for him to actually establish himself as a legit #1 defender before thinking he has the value of one. Right now he has about as much value as guys like John Moore in Columbus, Slava Voynov in LA, Roman Josi in Nashville, etc.

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01-12-2013, 08:59 PM
  #35
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There is no way the Avs Trade Duchesne, unless a way better d-man than Gardiner is com ing back.

IMO a Gardiner for Stastny deal make a lot of sense for both teams.

The avs save a ton of money and get the d-man they need. The leafs get another project to build their team around.( go look at all their deals they never get a slam dunk player!)

In all seriousness this deal is fair valuewise given stastnys performance of late and his cost.

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01-12-2013, 09:03 PM
  #36
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Clone Gardiner twice and hand all three of them over to Colorado and I bet they'd sign on the dotted line.

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01-12-2013, 09:04 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
Duchene is their next Sakic, I think he have a ton more value than Gardiner.

I can't imagine the avs trade their #1 prospect who has been drafted 3rd overall and who already got succes in the nhl, that kid's only 21.
really? Because I get the vibe that avs fans value Landeskog more than any other player on the team.. And let's face it, there's not a player on that team that's capable of being half of what Sakic was.

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01-12-2013, 09:07 PM
  #38
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really? Because I get the vibe that avs fans value Landeskog more than any other player on the team.. And let's face it, there's not a player on that team that's capable of being half of what Sakic was.
It's not an either or.

Pens have Crosby AND Malkin. Caps have Ovechkin AND Backstrom. Hawks have Kane AND Toews. This isn't the NBA, you need more than one star offensive player. Having one doesn't mean you ship out the other or that the other is somehow expendable...especially when you're building

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01-12-2013, 09:10 PM
  #39
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What do Vancouver fans want for Luongo? Matt Duchene is the kind of player you pay that price for.

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Old
01-12-2013, 09:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccaber16 View Post
It seems Colorado has an interesting situation developing down the middle. With Stastny, Duchene, and the emergence of O'Reilly there is reason to believe they may explore moving one of them to fill in holes in other areas. Perhaps one of Duchene or O'Reilly can move to the wing and Colorado fans can correct me on this.

But assuming they would rather trade one of these three I guess the decision comes down to trading Duchene for immediate help - young player, equal potential, or Stastny after this season from a collection of picks and prospects. I see Colorado with a nucleus that is growing nicley and I would imagine the priority would be to add a higher quality piece and fill a hole. Duchene could get them that piece.

Their current D is:

Erik Johnson
Hedja
Zanon
Wilson
O'Brien
O'Byrne
Hunwick

And top D prospects:

Barrie
Siemens
Elliot

I see a lot of Depth and not a lot of quality on that blueline. Johnson is the only high quality, offensive player on their current roster and coming off a respectable season in regards to offense with 26 points in 72 games. He seems to be developing more into a two-way defenseman with quite bit of offense but there is nothing ground breaking there offensively.

Barrie seems to be the only offensive defenseman coming up but I wouldn't consider him a blue chipper. In my opinion Colorado could do with a young up and coming offensive defenseman/powerplay specialist.

Looking around the league at teams with a defenseman that fit that mold and are ready to contribute now I see:

Fowler (ANA)
Faulk (CAR)
Leddy (CHI)
Schultz(EDM) * EDM likely doesnt have interest in duchene
Subban (MTL)
Del Zotto (NYR) * lots of cap tied up in forwards already
Ekman-Larsson (PHX)
Yandle (PHX)
Gardiner (TOR)
Carlson (WSH)



So Colorado fans as well as fans of the above defenseman, what are your thoughts on this. Let's refrain from the "lolz duchene for tavares only" and the same for the other defenseman listed.
Fowler (ANA) - Close value
Faulk (CAR)- Avs say no
Leddy (CHI)- avs say no, hawks would do it
Schultz(EDM) * Value is there but Schultz is too Exicitng to part with for EDM, he's going to be the #1
Subban (MTL)- Habs say no
Del Zotto (NYR) * both teams say no, duchene holds more value
Ekman-Larsson (PHX)- Phoenix says no
Yandle (PHX)- interesting... Best of the bunch
Gardiner (TOR)- avs say no
Carlson (WSH)- close but Avs say no

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01-12-2013, 09:12 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
What do Vancouver fans want for Luongo? Matt Duchene is the kind of player you pay that price for.
What??? Vancouver is NOT getting duchene for Luongo..... Vancouver would do a backflip put of joy If that took place,

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01-12-2013, 09:15 PM
  #42
Jerkini
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Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
( go look at all their deals they never get a slam dunk player!)
I don't know man, Dion Phaneuf was a big slam dunk in my eyes.


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01-12-2013, 09:16 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
What do Vancouver fans want for Luongo? Matt Duchene is the kind of player you pay that price for.
I wonder if Sharks fans would be willing to give up the great Ryan Clowe for Duchene?

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01-12-2013, 09:19 PM
  #44
Jerkini
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
What??? Vancouver is NOT getting duchene for Luongo..... Vancouver would do a backflip put of joy If that took place,
Of course not. I mean Vancouver's fanbase has outrageous expectations on what Luongo is worth. A guy like Matt Duchene is the type of player who warrants a price that high.

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01-13-2013, 12:47 AM
  #45
7even
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Jake Gardiner hasn't done anything yet. He's certainly not as good as Erik Johnson and may not ever be.

Duchene is like 21 years old - and already has accomplished a lot. Had a tough year with injuries but way to early to give up on him, especially for a guy like Gardiner.

I get Leafs fans are high on Gardiner but you have to wait for him to actually establish himself as a legit #1 defender before thinking he has the value of one. Right now he has about as much value as guys like John Moore in Columbus, Slava Voynov in LA, Roman Josi in Nashville, etc.
Ehhhh, I get what you're saying, but John Moore's got 7 points in 69 NHL games, Voynov's got 20 in 54, Josi has 16 in 52, and Gardiner has 30 in 75. I'd say he and Voynov are close-ish, but Moore and Josi are a little lower than both. I'd give the edge to Gardiner because he's got the above-average skating going for him.

Also I doubt he ever becomes a #1 defenseman. He doesn't do much defensively and he's a trainwreck in front of his own net. Led all rookie D in scoring, so that counts for something I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Also :

Andrej Meszaros
82 GP 10 G 29 A 39 PTS

At least 1 or 2 D men come into the league each year like that and then fall back to earth
I dunno, all the guys you've listed are still pretty good players. If Gardiner becomes Andrej Meszaros or Keith Ballard, I'm a happy Leafs fan.

Also, since we only have points to evaluate here, and points for defensemen have a lower spread than for forwards, stats (and it pains me to say this) kinda head out the window.

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Old
01-13-2013, 12:58 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Every single defender in the OP is better than Gardiner, ...
So Schultz who hasn't played 1 NHL game is better

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Old
01-13-2013, 01:03 AM
  #47
T M L
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We aren't trading Duchene.
Toronto is not trading Gardiner!

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Old
01-13-2013, 01:35 AM
  #48
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Not to mention the concussion issue.
so you wouldn't trade for sidney crosby if you had a chance because he has been concussed?

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01-13-2013, 01:51 AM
  #49
7even
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so you wouldn't trade for sidney crosby if you had a chance because he has been concussed?
Pump the brakes there, Gardiner's obviously no Crosby.

I think the whole thing is irrelevant. He doesn't have "concussion issues;" he's had exactly one. Nowhere near the "damaged goods" label.

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01-13-2013, 01:56 AM
  #50
SeenSchenn2
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Leafs fans severely overrate their players. Gardiner's value isn't in the same stratosphere as Duchene. Add in Grabovski and it still probably doesn't get the deal done.
Nothing like a ignorant generalization to start the thread!

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