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Landon Ferraro - How ya like me now?

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01-12-2013, 09:35 PM
  #26
Vladdy84
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
or just wants some new nationalities mixed in in the hope that it causes the team culture to change a bit
The best players on the team are Euro. The coach is North American and Cleary, Bert, Helm, Gator, Tootoo, Miller, Emmerton, Howard, White, Quincey, Smith, Eaves are as well.

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01-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
The best players on the team are Euro. The coach is North American and Cleary, Bert, Helm, Gator, Tootoo, Miller, Emmerton, Howard, White, Quincey, Smith, Eaves are as well.
Howard isn't one of the best players on the team?(and Smith soon)

in any case there's definitely something wrong with the culture of the team of late

although I wouldn't really personally blame it on nationalities

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01-12-2013, 09:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
Howard isn't one of the best players on the team?(and Smith soon)

in any case there's definitely something wrong with the culture of the team of late

although I wouldn't really personally blame it on nationalities
I don't care where a player comes from to be honest. And never have. I really don't know where I'd rank Howard in the rankings of best players on the team. Probably in the 5-6 range.

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01-12-2013, 11:02 PM
  #29
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You're basically just questioning the heart and desire of European players.
No, I'm questioning the wisdom of a team full of Lady Byng candidates, and whether you want to admit it or not, Euro players tend to play a cleaner game.

I want players who push back.

I want players who don't hide behind officials or turtle on the ice when challenged to a fight.

I want guys who make Shea Weber pay IMMEDIATELY for plowing Zetterberg into the boards instead of whining to the media for suspensions.

They don't all need to be like this... but our mix of players in 98 was much better than it is today.

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01-12-2013, 11:08 PM
  #30
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No, I'm questioning the wisdom of a team full of Lady Byng candidates, and whether you want to admit it or not, Euro players tend to play a cleaner game.

I want players who push back.

I want players who don't hide behind officials or turtle on the ice when challenged to a fight.

I want guys who make Shea Weber pay IMMEDIATELY for plowing Zetterberg into the boards instead of whining to the media for suspensions.

They don't all need to be like this... but our mix of players in 98 was much better than it is today.
We got Tootoo. And that's unfair. You say you wan't a player to defend Z after he got ****ed by Weber? What would have happened? Some goon go after Weber and gotten his ass kicked?

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01-13-2013, 01:03 AM
  #31
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We got Tootoo. And that's unfair. You say you wan't a player to defend Z after he got ****ed by Weber? What would have happened? Some goon go after Weber and gotten his ass kicked?
Some goon?
How about Z gets up and slashes him on the calf? How about Franzen skates over and drops the gloves.

This team didn't answer the bell last year. It hasn't for a couple years now.
And that's a culture issue. Justin Abdelkader gets his face punched in a couple times a year. I remember when Kostsopolous elbowed Stuart in the face and nobody on the Red Wings even touched him.

This team needs push back. Hockey isn't just skating, passing and shooting.

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01-13-2013, 04:57 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I want players who don't hide behind officials or turtle on the ice when challenged to a fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSDue98oU5Q



EDIT:

It was really a funny thing, Brunner's essence and skating reminds me of Claude Lemieux. And he can also turtle.


Last edited by Henkka: 01-13-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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01-13-2013, 01:18 PM
  #33
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Some goon?
How about Z gets up and slashes him on the calf? How about Franzen skates over and drops the gloves.
Z slashing him would have been ok with me b/c it would have sent some sort of message that the Wings weren't going to just take crap from the Preds, as we know it would have ended up with all the players on both teams in one giant scrum, no harm done (kinda like those NBA "altercations" where 2 guys jaw at each other while making no real effort to get to the other guy). But asking Franzen to drop the gloves? Come on, Z knows that he has a better chance of Babcock rushing the ice to go after Weber in that situation than Franzen doing something.

Quote:
This team didn't answer the bell last year. It hasn't for a couple years now.
And that's a culture issue. Justin Abdelkader gets his face punched in a couple times a year. I remember when Kostsopolous elbowed Stuart in the face and nobody on the Red Wings even touched him.

This team needs push back. Hockey isn't just skating, passing and shooting.
The Ghandi-pacifist routine is okay when you have a lethal PP, but we haven't had that for a while now. The Kostopolous shot on Stuart still bothers me b/c it was so cheap, and Abdelkader was on the ice and did NOTHING. It's not like Abby in the box for 5 would have crippled our offense, so he needed to take care of business. Hopefully Tootoo will be more likely to answer the bell when needed.

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01-13-2013, 01:37 PM
  #34
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Z slashing him would have been ok with me b/c it would have sent some sort of message that the Wings weren't going to just take crap from the Preds, as we know it would have ended up with all the players on both teams in one giant scrum, no harm done (kinda like those NBA "altercations" where 2 guys jaw at each other while making no real effort to get to the other guy). But asking Franzen to drop the gloves? Come on, Z knows that he has a better chance of Babcock rushing the ice to go after Weber in that situation than Franzen doing something.



The Ghandi-pacifist routine is okay when you have a lethal PP, but we haven't had that for a while now. The Kostopolous shot on Stuart still bothers me b/c it was so cheap, and Abdelkader was on the ice and did NOTHING. It's not like Abby in the box for 5 would have crippled our offense, so he needed to take care of business. Hopefully Tootoo will be more likely to answer the bell when needed.
The Ghandi routine is never OK in my book. We don't need 20 goons. But we need 2-3 guys willing to answer the bell. We need team leadership that answers the bell. I hope they give the other A to someone with some spirit.

I'm not asking Franzen to drop the gloves. But grab the guy, Put him in a headlock, Wrestle the guy. Get involved. Stand up for your teammate.


Last edited by RedWingsNow*: 01-13-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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01-13-2013, 01:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
The Ghandi routine is never OK in my book. We don't need 20 goons. But we need 2-3 guys willing to answer the bell. We need team leadership that answers the bell. I hope they give the other A to someone with some spirit.

I'm not asking Franzen to drop the gloves. But grab the guy, Put him in a headlock, Wrestle the guy. Get involved. Stand up for your teammate.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of always turning the other cheek, but I think that it was ingrained in the team culture to always let the PP answer the shenanigans from other teams (post '90's Wings, of course). I think that came from the team executive level as Babcock had some rough and tumble teams in Anaheim but didn't instill much of that in the Wings after arriving in Detroit.

And what the hell- I'll even agree and say that it would have been nice to see the Mule engage Weber in some way, even if it was just a bear hug or a Bertuzzi leg-hump situation while waiting for the cavalry to arrive. But that's like asking stone hands Abdelkader to become a goal scoring machine- it's not in the guy and it's not going to happen.

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01-13-2013, 02:48 PM
  #36
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it's not in the guy and it's not going to happen.
Thats the problem. That sentence can describe prett ymuch every player on the team it seems. Thats changing now though and a reason guys like Ferraro are liked by some around here. Hes not a tough guy or a goon but hes not a ***** like most players on the wings. Hes the type of player that gives some team toughness through the lineup and is willing to defend his teammates. Ouellet is the same way, they'll both go after tougher guys because its in their nature and bring a different culture to a team full of soft players for the most part.

I dont want to say its only Europeans who are soft, but youre fooling yourself if you dont think their upbringing in hockey leads them away from the rough stuff more. Ericcson is an example of a guy who isnt completely soft out there and European but at the same time I see him fight and he can dominate guys. I really think if he was a Canadian with that size and fighting ability guys like Weber would be starting to think twice because Ericcons would dummy him

Theres something wrong with a team that has to send a 38 year old Canadian out to fight a guy to instill some team courage and toughness. Looks like that culture is changing though and the wings recognize this. Smith coming up, the Tootoo signing, gritty players being drafted like Ouellet and Ferraro.

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01-13-2013, 03:21 PM
  #37
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of always turning the other cheek, but I think that it was ingrained in the team culture to always let the PP answer the shenanigans from other teams (post '90's Wings, of course). I think that came from the team executive level as Babcock had some rough and tumble teams in Anaheim but didn't instill much of that in the Wings after arriving in Detroit.

And what the hell- I'll even agree and say that it would have been nice to see the Mule engage Weber in some way, even if it was just a bear hug or a Bertuzzi leg-hump situation while waiting for the cavalry to arrive. But that's like asking stone hands Abdelkader to become a goal scoring machine- it's not in the guy and it's not going to happen.
And I'm saying we need to change our personnel so we don't have 3 lines full of guys who turn the other cheek.

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01-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #38
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Can we get back to Ferraro talk? Man you guys get derailed easily. (I know, I should talk...)

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01-13-2013, 05:22 PM
  #39
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Can we get back to Ferraro talk? Man you guys get derailed easily. (I know, I should talk...)
All right, all right... Ferraro could be a guy to help address the lack of "answering the bell" guys that we've been discussing in the last few points (see, we were bringing it back to Ferraro eventually ). I do like the thought of having a guy like him along with Sheahan on the 4th line in a few seasons, but holy crap, do the Wings have a lot of guys to move out of the picture to allow that to happen.

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And I'm saying we need to change our personnel so we don't have 3 lines full of guys who turn the other cheek.
Okay. The personnel is the result of the organizational philosophy, so I think the Wings brass has to alter their thinking before the roster is affected. Hopefully guys like Ferraro and Ouellet are a step in that direction, but I'd like to see them also have guys who can play 1st and 2nd line mins, riding shotgun for the skill guys like Nyquist and Jarnkrok (major moves would have to be made to get those guys in place to play with D or Z). It's nice to have a 4th line guy who will answer the bell, but sometimes you need someone on the ice with your top guys to handle situations when the ***** hits the fan.

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