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2012 Redskins Thread IV (Playoffs?!?! Edition)

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01-12-2013, 08:58 PM
  #376
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Well did you see them last year? Grossman got killed on traditional dropbacks.

On RG3, to reiterate what I read on twitter, he had a step to lose. Even if he's 4.5-4.6 speed he can still be effective.
Trent Williams missed part of last year and the line was in flux and was very young.... and please...you are using Grossman as an example of a QB getting killed? Bad QB's make bad plays, irrespective of offensive lines. Grossman would get killed behind most offensive lines...because he's Rex Grossman.

The O line produced the #2 rusher in the league, who just happened to be an unheralded Rookie. While that isnt pass protecting, it is hardly chopped liver.

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01-12-2013, 09:00 PM
  #377
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Yes nothing will be certain until Griffin is on the field doing individual drills, testing out the knee. And that is a long ways off. No need to argue over it, but a discussion on that and other things Skins offseason is always welcome.
Roger that. More to come in the months following, I am sure.

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01-12-2013, 09:15 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Trent Williams missed part of last year and the line was in flux and was very young.... and please...you are using Grossman as an example of a QB getting killed? Bad QB's make bad plays, irrespective of offensive lines. Grossman would get killed behind most offensive lines...because he's Rex Grossman.

The O line produced the #2 rusher in the league, who just happened to be an unheralded Rookie. While that isnt pass protecting, it is hardly chopped liver.
Prior to the injuries in week 4 they couldnt run effectively and the oline was bad under McNabb as well.

The run game was effective largely b/c they were running a gimmick, when they didnt do the option teams stopped the rush or limited the effectiveness.

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01-12-2013, 09:22 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Prior to the injuries in week 4 they couldnt run effectively and the oline was bad under McNabb as well.

The run game was effective largely b/c they were running a gimmick, when they didnt do the option teams stopped the rush or limited the effectiveness.
Did you watch the Cleveland and 2nd Dallas games? Not many "gimmick" plays run in those games.

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01-12-2013, 09:26 PM
  #380
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Did you watch the Cleveland and 2nd Dallas games? Not many "gimmick" plays run in those games.
Cleveland stacked the box and the team won through playaction pass. Dallas, they still ran the option. Did you watch those games? The Eagles the second time they were more traditional and less effective as well.

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01-12-2013, 10:29 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Cleveland stacked the box and the team won through playaction pass. Dallas, they still ran the option. Did you watch those games? The Eagles the second time they were more traditional and less effective as well.
Hate to break it to you but the offense we saw in the Cleveland game is the Mike Shanahan offense. Pound the run, and when that is taken away, crush them with play action. A rookie QB not named Griffin put up 300 yards passing. And the O-line played a part.

The Skins led the NFL in rushing. They don't do that with an average O-line. Time to give that crew the credit it deserves.

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01-12-2013, 10:47 PM
  #382
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Hate to break it to you but the offense we saw in the Cleveland game is the Mike Shanahan offense. Pound the run, and when that is taken away, crush them with play action. A rookie QB not named Griffin put up 300 yards passing. And the O-line played a part.

The Skins led the NFL in rushing. They don't do that with an average O-line. Time to give that crew the credit it deserves.
Cleveland not adjusting at all to the playaction pass was another reason, they literally made no adjustment to the playaction pass and we had a field day. The oline was otherwise overpowered versus the run considering the opposing D didn't have to deal with the threat of the option.

The Skins had a QB that allowed them to run a misdirection offense which kept defense guessing and off-balance. No way they amass those numbers running a traditional offense. The read option masked the deficiencies on the oline.

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01-13-2013, 08:55 AM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Cleveland not adjusting at all to the playaction pass was another reason, they literally made no adjustment to the playaction pass and we had a field day. The oline was otherwise overpowered versus the run considering the opposing D didn't have to deal with the threat of the option.

The Skins had a QB that allowed them to run a misdirection offense which kept defense guessing and off-balance. No way they amass those numbers running a traditional offense. The read option masked the deficiencies on the oline.
Having played and coached the position I disagree. I'll just leave it at that.

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01-13-2013, 09:43 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Cleveland not adjusting at all to the playaction pass was another reason, they literally made no adjustment to the playaction pass and we had a field day. The oline was otherwise overpowered versus the run considering the opposing D didn't have to deal with the threat of the option.

The Skins had a QB that allowed them to run a misdirection offense which kept defense guessing and off-balance. No way they amass those numbers running a traditional offense. The read option masked the deficiencies on the oline.
we obviously arent going to agree.

The Redskins lead the league in rushing. That is a fact. You cant put 5 pluggers on an O-line and have that happen due to gimmicks...not in the NFL. This isnt the Pac-10 or MAC we are talking about here, its the freaking NFL.

The numbers speak for themselves, and when you are "the best" at something as basic as rushing offense...over a season...then honestly the only thing that needs to speak is those numbers.

The rest is you just exhaling at the fortress, vs turbo-fanning at a house of cards. One is legit, one isnt.

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01-13-2013, 09:50 AM
  #385
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1. i listened to coach herm edwards discuss this offense. he said its the same offense that elway ran.
2. that said, rgiii didnt run it the same way as elway and had the qb run option is a much more primary tool than others that run that offense. theres no question that if you turn rgiii into an elway type mobile passer rather than an 800 yd a season throwing runner, the weight of the offense will move.

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01-13-2013, 02:19 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
we obviously arent going to agree.

The Redskins lead the league in rushing. That is a fact. You cant put 5 pluggers on an O-line and have that happen due to gimmicks...not in the NFL. This isnt the Pac-10 or MAC we are talking about here, its the freaking NFL.

The numbers speak for themselves, and when you are "the best" at something as basic as rushing offense...over a season...then honestly the only thing that needs to speak is those numbers.

The rest is you just exhaling at the fortress, vs turbo-fanning at a house of cards. One is legit, one isnt.
So you think we have an upper echelon oline? You don't think this oline benefited greatly from running the read option scheme? Throughout the year when the team ran traditional dropbacks Polumbus and Chester struggled mightily, the only two that played consistently all year were Trent and Montgomery. Strictly pointing to rushing stats don't tell the whole story. They allowed the 12 most QB hits(in the pocket) and the teams that allowed more have poor olines and they do not have the luxury of a mobile QB(less GB if you consider Rodgers).

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01-13-2013, 03:05 PM
  #387
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Atlanta w/ a Capitalesque choke job

edit: or not


Last edited by Cush: 01-13-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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01-13-2013, 03:12 PM
  #388
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Atlanta w/ a Capitalesque choke job

edit: or not
You were saying? What an insane ending.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:13 PM
  #389
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Wow Atlanta almost choked twice. What a game, they're very fortunate to hold on.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:40 PM
  #390
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You would think NFL training staff would tell players to stop stretching due to it being widely researched and found to hurt performance.

You would expect a $9 billion dollar industry to have competent training staffs.

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01-13-2013, 04:53 PM
  #391
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Why does it seem that New England get's every break imaginable? 3 and 3, rush for 4 yards. 3rd and 25, 2 yard dump to Welker goes for 30 yards. They're so ******* annoying.

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01-13-2013, 05:46 PM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
So you think we have an upper echelon oline? You don't think this oline benefited greatly from running the read option scheme? Throughout the year when the team ran traditional dropbacks Polumbus and Chester struggled mightily, the only two that played consistently all year were Trent and Montgomery. Strictly pointing to rushing stats don't tell the whole story. They allowed the 12 most QB hits(in the pocket) and the teams that allowed more have poor olines and they do not have the luxury of a mobile QB(less GB if you consider Rodgers).
As much as I like what the O-line did this year I wouldn't say it is upper echelon. Far from it. The O-line went into the year average at best, but as the team as a whole found its footing after the bye week, the O-line solidified into above-average to good at the last Dallas game. Lichtensteiger not being able to play against SEA, and Montgomery having his worst game of the year (especially with long snaps) brought the O-line back to above-average, IMO.

Having said all that the O-line has something going for it that is invaluable to a group of players that must work as a single unit and that is chemistry. And good chemistry has a way of taking a group of so/so O-lineman (accept for Williams) and making them very good as a unit.

But can the chemistry be sustained into next season? That will be the key to any success the Skins have to start next season if Griffin is limited or out to start.

Moving forward Shanahan needs to find an upgrade at RT. Polombus played good for him throughout the year, but he is clearly best used as depth off the bench. The Jordan Black position. Leribus and Lichtensteiger need to have a healthy competition for the LG spot in the offseason as well. Leribus is more physical, stronger, and brings needed attitude to the O-line. And Lichtensteiger clearly has durability issues. Lichtensteiger would be best as a back up at Guard and Center, but he is a FA. He needs to be, and should be, resigned first. Also, Brown needs to go. Wasted roster spot.

So, find a replacement for Polumbus, competition between LeRibus and Lichtensteiger in the offseason, and continue to look for O-line depth in the draft with an eye on finding a replacement for Montgomery that can be groomed over the next 2-3 years.

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01-13-2013, 06:35 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Why does it seem that New England get's every break imaginable? 3 and 3, rush for 4 yards. 3rd and 25, 2 yard dump to Welker goes for 30 yards. They're so ******* annoying.
Converting 3rd downs is "getting breaks" now?

You could point to a lot of other things, but that seems like a weird one to get whiny about.

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01-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #394
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Watching NE used to irk me. So I just started wagering on them to help ease the pain of nothing every going ****ing wrong for them.

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01-13-2013, 06:48 PM
  #395
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Why does it seem that New England get's every break imaginable? 3 and 3, rush for 4 yards. 3rd and 25, 2 yard dump to Welker goes for 30 yards. They're so ******* annoying.
I've learned to not hate them, because hating them just brings heat break, they're too good.

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01-13-2013, 06:51 PM
  #396
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Converting 3rd downs is "getting breaks" now?

You could point to a lot of other things, but that seems like a weird one to get whiny about.
Getting breaks is a poor way to put it. And not really what meant. Supernaturally lucky is more like it. And whining about the Pats is something I admittedly indulge in. I hate Boston sports so much.

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01-13-2013, 07:52 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
So you think we have an upper echelon oline? You don't think this oline benefited greatly from running the read option scheme? Throughout the year when the team ran traditional dropbacks Polumbus and Chester struggled mightily, the only two that played consistently all year were Trent and Montgomery. Strictly pointing to rushing stats don't tell the whole story. They allowed the 12 most QB hits(in the pocket) and the teams that allowed more have poor olines and they do not have the luxury of a mobile QB(less GB if you consider Rodgers).
I think its a top half (16) NFL o-line. The fact that we had almost zero injuries was mongo for their success as well, obviously.

I am not saying they are hall of famers (well, Williams could be over time), but they arent crap either. You are deriding them, which is ludicrous.

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01-13-2013, 07:55 PM
  #398
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As much as I like what the O-line did this year I wouldn't say it is upper echelon. Far from it. The O-line went into the year average at best, but as the team as a whole found its footing after the bye week, the O-line solidified into above-average to good at the last Dallas game. Lichtensteiger not being able to play against SEA, and Montgomery having his worst game of the year (especially with long snaps) brought the O-line back to above-average, IMO.

Having said all that the O-line has something going for it that is invaluable to a group of players that must work as a single unit and that is chemistry. And good chemistry has a way of taking a group of so/so O-lineman (accept for Williams) and making them very good as a unit.

But can the chemistry be sustained into next season? That will be the key to any success the Skins have to start next season if Griffin is limited or out to start.

Moving forward Shanahan needs to find an upgrade at RT. Polombus played good for him throughout the year, but he is clearly best used as depth off the bench. The Jordan Black position. Leribus and Lichtensteiger need to have a healthy competition for the LG spot in the offseason as well. Leribus is more physical, stronger, and brings needed attitude to the O-line. And Lichtensteiger clearly has durability issues. Lichtensteiger would be best as a back up at Guard and Center, but he is a FA. He needs to be, and should be, resigned first. Also, Brown needs to go. Wasted roster spot.

So, find a replacement for Polumbus, competition between LeRibus and Lichtensteiger in the offseason, and continue to look for O-line depth in the draft with an eye on finding a replacement for Montgomery that can be groomed over the next 2-3 years.
agreed on all counts. Redskins can/will find added o-line depth at the draft. I would *not* spend any big $$$ on an FA though, not with the 18m cap hit.

If the Skins have any money to spend on FA's, I'd for sure do it on the defense, most likely in the secondary (CB or safety...doesnt matter)

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01-13-2013, 08:22 PM
  #399
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Irony that Fedex field cost the Seahawks a chance to try the 65 yard winning field goal.

Oh well, I guess I'll root for the Niners now.

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01-14-2013, 11:01 AM
  #400
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Another position that will be interesting to follow this offseason is TE. What do the Skins do about Sleepy Davis? Paulsen showed, IMO, to be more than adequate blocking and catching passes. And Niles Paul is a versatile guy that could make the transition to TE completely next year.

So what to do with Sleepy? I don't see the Skins using the franchise on him. More like a 1 year incentive laden deal or he walks.

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