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01-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  #601
Tawnos
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Yeah, I totally disagree about most of the teams that have won the Cup recently using their 3rd line as shutdown. The Kings had Penner and King on their 3rd line. The Bruins had Peverley, Ryder and sometimes Seguin on their 3rd line. The Blackhawks had Ladd and Brouwer.

The last 3 Cup winners have all been incredibly DEEP teams. I just hope we can add at the deadline.

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01-12-2013, 10:32 PM
  #602
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will anything be live streamed or shown on TV from practice or scrimmage?

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yeah, I totally disagree about most of the teams that have won the Cup recently using their 3rd line as shutdown. The Kings had Penner and King on their 3rd line. The Bruins had Peverley, Ryder and sometimes Seguin on their 3rd line. The Blackhawks had Ladd and Brouwer.

The last 3 Cup winners have all been incredibly DEEP teams. I just hope we can add at the deadline.
Agree that we need more depth, but Kings third line defiantly didn't have Penner. He was On the 2nd line with Richards and Carter.

Having Rich Peverley on your third line is plain awesome.

The 2010 Hawks were the deepest team in the salary cap era, IMO.

But with the shorter schedule, I think more teams will see themselves as playoff contenders. Therefore, less sellers, and a worse, and more inflated market than last year.

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01-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  #604
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Yeah, let's hope some of our guys are a pleasant surprise...the cost will be steep at the deadline.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:40 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Agree that we need more depth, but Kings third line defiantly didn't have Penner. He was On the 2nd line with Richards and Carter.

Having Rich Peverley on your third line is plain awesome.

The 2010 Hawks were the deepest team in the salary cap era, IMO.

But with the shorter schedule, I think more teams will see themselves as playoff contenders. Therefore, less sellers, and a worse, and more inflated market than last year.
I wonder if having a shorter season will make the 3rd line less important because the top 2 lines will be able to play more minutes.

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01-12-2013, 10:46 PM
  #606
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I wonder if having a shorter season will make the 3rd line less important because the top 2 lines will be able to play more minutes.
It will make the 4th line less important. It's kind of like a double edged sword. The 4th line will be less important but the 3rd line will be even more important because you don't want to tire out your top 2 lines in a shortened season. With their being only 48 games every point is crucial so every minute is pretty valuable and not many will be used/wasted on a team's fourth line.

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01-12-2013, 10:51 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I wonder if having a shorter season will make the 3rd line less important because the top 2 lines will be able to play more minutes.
not a chance...condense schedule means you need more depth not less cause less days off. and you can eliminate the 4th line, you can't eliminate the 3rd line.

if a forward players over 21:00/game they are among the league leaders in minutes...so even if the richards and stepan lines play 21-22 minutes/game you still need 16-18 minutes from the 3rd/4th lines

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01-12-2013, 10:52 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Agree that we need more depth, but Kings third line defiantly didn't have Penner. He was On the 2nd line with Richards and Carter.

Having Rich Peverley on your third line is plain awesome.

The 2010 Hawks were the deepest team in the salary cap era, IMO.

But with the shorter schedule, I think more teams will see themselves as playoff contenders. Therefore, less sellers, and a worse, and more inflated market than last year.
They also lost Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien the year after because their management screwed up with the contracts they handing out and couldn't afford to keep that team intact. That team was unrealistically deep and that's why all those pieces departed with nothing coming back, I believe.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:55 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
They also lost Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien the year after because their management screwed up with the contracts they handing out and couldn't afford to keep that team intact. That team was unrealistically deep and that's why all those pieces departed with nothing coming back, I believe.
Well, had Tallon not screwed up the qualifying offers, they would've been able to keep more of those players. Unrealistically deep by 1 player, maybe. Not by 3. (It wasn't Brouwer, btw. It was Versteeg)

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yeah, I totally disagree about most of the teams that have won the Cup recently using their 3rd line as shutdown. The Kings had Penner and King on their 3rd line. The Bruins had Peverley, Ryder and sometimes Seguin on their 3rd line. The Blackhawks had Ladd and Brouwer.

The last 3 Cup winners have all been incredibly DEEP teams. I just hope we can add at the deadline.
If Callahan is in the third line, I'd say that's an indication of this team being deep. There are no non-NHL caliber players in this lineup, aside from arguably Stu Bickel. Is a bottom-6 of:

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

vs.

Penner-Stoll-King
Nolan-Fraser-Lewis

Really a huge difference? No, it's really not.

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01-12-2013, 11:00 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
They also lost Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien the year after because their management screwed up with the contracts they handing out and couldn't afford to keep that team intact. That team was unrealistically deep and that's why all those pieces departed with nothing coming back, I believe.
Yep, that team basically had a one-year window. They got it done.

But it's really not management's fault, I don't think. Toews' ELC was up that summer. And Kane. And Keith. And Hjalmarsson. There was just too much going on at once. The core needed to be kept together.


Last edited by Rangers Fail: 01-12-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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01-12-2013, 11:03 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
If Callahan is in the third line, I'd say that's an indication of this team being deep. There are no non-NHL caliber players in this lineup, aside from arguably Stu Bickel. Is a bottom-6 of:

Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

vs.

Penner-Stoll-King
Nolan-Fraser-Lewis

Really a huge difference? No, it's really not.
If Callahan is truly in the bottom-6, then it's closer. However, the Kings had two "elite level 3rd liners" in that bottom 6. One guy who really is a 2nd liner (Penner) and one guy I think is one of the best 3rd line centers in the league (Stoll). The Rangers have one or possibly none. And I personally feel that King is better than both Pyatt and Boyle. It's not about the 4th line, it's about the 3rd line.

Huge difference to me.

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:03 PM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
will anything be live streamed or shown on TV from practice or scrimmage?
I heard there was going to be some sort of coverage on Wednesday, not sure of what coverage or what time, but I think it was dave Maloney that tweeted it the other day. It will be on MSG

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:06 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I wonder if having a shorter season will make the 3rd line less important because the top 2 lines will be able to play more minutes.
I think the opposite ... depth will be KEY

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01-12-2013, 11:07 PM
  #615
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I completely agree with Tawnos.

Our bottom 6 looks a bit suspect and not enough skill.

Please less meatheads like Asham, Rupp, Pyatt, etc. More young players with fresh legs like Miller and Hrivik.

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01-12-2013, 11:07 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Yep, that team basically had a one-year window. They got it done.

But it's really not management's fault, I don't think. Toews' ELC was up that summer. And Kane. And Keith. And Hjalmarsson. There was just too much going on at once. The co needed to be kept together.
Yes, it is management's fault. They were late in getting their qualifying offers to 6 players and ended up having to sign guys at UFA rates instead of RFA rates. That led directly to trading Byfuglien, Ladd and Versteeg in order to resign more important RFAs in the 2010 offseason.

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01-12-2013, 11:09 PM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
If Callahan is truly in the bottom-6, then it's closer. However, the Kings had two "elite level 3rd liners" in that bottom 6. One guy who really is a 2nd liner (Penner) and one guy I think is one of the best 3rd line centers in the league (Stoll). The Rangers have one or possibly none. And I personally feel that King is better than both Pyatt and Boyle. It's not about the 4th line, it's about the 3rd line.

Huge difference to me.
Callahan is a top-6, second line player. He's also a far, far better player than Penner, who scored 7 goals in 65 games for the Kings last year, 2 in 19 the year before. He hasn't been a top-6 player with LA.

Also, if Stoll is an "elite 3rd liner", then so is Boyle. Stoll had 6 goals last year. How he is he so much better than Boyle, who put up 11 goals? They are about even defensively, Boyle was more effective offensively, and he's got a lot of size on Stoll...so I really don't understand the drooling over Stoll, while everyone loves to underestimate Boyle.

As for King, that is yet to be determined. He had a decent playoffs and first NHL stint, but he doesn't bring Boyle's defensive ability. Compared to Pyatt, yes, I'd rather have King, but all in all, it's about even.

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01-12-2013, 11:12 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Callahan is a top-6, second line player. He's also a far, far better player than Penner, who scored 7 goals in 65 games for the Kings last year, 2 in 19 the year before. He hasn't been a top-6 player with LA.

Also, if Stoll is an "elite 3rd liner", then so is Boyle. Stoll had 6 goals last year. How he is he so much better than Boyle, who put up 11 goals? They are about even defensively, Boyle was more effective offensively, and he's got a lot of size on Stoll...so I really don't understand the drooling over Stoll, while everyone loves to underestimate Boyle.

As for King, that is yet to be determined. He had a decent playoffs and first NHL stint, but he doesn't bring Boyle's defensive ability. Compared to Pyatt, yes, I'd rather have King, but all in all, it's about even.
On Boyle vs Stoll... because stats don't tell the whole story. Stoll delivers quality shift after quality shift, no matter the zone he's in. The same can't be said for Boyle. It's not about production.

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01-12-2013, 11:14 PM
  #619
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On Boyle vs Stoll... because stats don't tell the whole story. Stoll delivers quality shift after quality shift, no matter the zone he's in. The same can't be said for Boyle. It's not about production.
That's simply a fallacy. Stoll is far from a consistent offensive threat. He's got no accuracy on his shot and is about as much of a playmaker as Boyle.

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01-12-2013, 11:15 PM
  #620
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On Boyle vs Stoll... because stats don't tell the whole story. Stoll delivers quality shift after quality shift, no matter the zone he's in. The same can't be said for Boyle. It's not about production.
Stoll was also a good 2-way 2nd line centerman behind Kopitar for years. Was also Edmonton's #1 center and broke 68 points one year. He is a 2nd line center playing on the 3rd line imo.

I like Boyle, but Stoll is a more proven player.

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01-12-2013, 11:16 PM
  #621
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I completely agree with Tawnos.

Our bottom 6 looks a bit suspect and not enough skill.

Please less meatheads like Asham, Rupp, Pyatt, etc. More young players with fresh legs like Miller and Hrivik.
I don't love the Rupp or Asham signings. I think Rupp will be a pleasant surprise this year and be a great fourth liner for us, but Asham I could do without entirely. Pyatt I don't think is a meathead at all though and shouldn't be lumped with them. I think he's a very good third line winger who will actually excel with us. Has a one year deal with a lot of incentive to perform and also is coming from a really defensive system (so he'll fit ours) and much lower scoring team, so his offense might open up a bit. Either way, however, I don't think young players with fresh legs in he answer. You think we're going to win the Cup with a bunch of rookies in the lineup? I'm fine with a depth signing, though I do think our third line is fine and people are selling Boyle/Pyatt short, but having depth will never hurt. I don't think rookies will do us any good though unless they're extremely ready. Miller is not. He's 19. He'll be a great third line option, hopefully next year, but he's just not ready to be a solid third liner on a Cup contender; no way. Hrivik is injured. Either way, I'd rather have experience and go all in for the Cup than have Kreider, Miller and Hrivik in the lineup.

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01-12-2013, 11:16 PM
  #622
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That's simply a fallacy. Stoll is far from a consistent offensive threat. He's got no accuracy on his shot and is about as much of a playmaker as Boyle.
But yet his shifts in the offensive zone serve his team's momentum better than Boyle's, which is my point. i.e. Stoll is the better forechecker.

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01-12-2013, 11:17 PM
  #623
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Rupp was playing on a ****ed up knee the majority of last season. When he's healthy, he is a solid, reliable player.

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01-12-2013, 11:18 PM
  #624
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But yet his shifts in the offensive zone serve his team's momentum better than Boyle's, which is my point. i.e. Stoll is the better forechecker.
Well, I disagree with that. Really don't see what you're seeing.

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01-12-2013, 11:20 PM
  #625
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How hard is this to understand? Stoll is better for his team's feng shui than is Boyle.

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