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Old
01-12-2013, 02:36 PM
  #676
Qward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Think Phillips will start the year with Gonchar, unless Weircoich is just miles better next week.

IMO MacLean will take the veteran over the rookie on defense, whereas up front he is more liable to lean towards a rookie forward as this presents considerably less risk.
If there are no moves,

I think he will pair a rookie (Wiercioch) with Gonchar and possibly Benoit with Phillips. Gonchar did wonders helping a rookie Cowen learn.

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Old
01-12-2013, 02:42 PM
  #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
His #1 linemate was Chris Neil. So no Qwardo, I'm not making things up.


You on the other hand, saying Phillips was the #5, are making things up.
#1 Karlsson
#2 Kuba
#3 Gonchar
#4 Cowen
#5 Phillips


ES TOI
#5 Phillips

SH TOI
#3 Phillips

PP TOI
#5 Phillips

TOI
#5 Phillips

When I say something, it comes from facts. When you say something it comes from your ass.

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Old
01-12-2013, 03:27 PM
  #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
#1 Karlsson
#2 Kuba
#3 Gonchar
#4 Cowen
#5 Phillips


ES TOI
#5 Phillips

SH TOI
#3 Phillips

PP TOI
#5 Phillips

TOI
#5 Phillips

When I say something, it comes from facts. When you say something it comes from your ass.

To be fair, Phillips most common line mate for the season was Gonchar on the second pair, but he did spend about as much time with a combination of guys like Rundblad, Gilroy, Lee and Carkner on the 3rd pair.

By the end of the season though, he was primarily on the 3rd with either Gilroy or Carkner. So while he bounced around, I think it's fair to call him a 4-5 guy, leaning toward 5 last year.

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Old
01-12-2013, 04:51 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You're kidding yourself if you think their returns won't help at all. And the point is to tank. Again, you're kidding yourself if you think that pick won't help.
I find it odd to read someone saying "you're kidding yourself" when he also says "the point is to tank"

Wish you could enter a meeting room full of NHL executives and professionals and propose them your plan. Your vision of things would change dramatically after that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You don't get it do you?

It's 2011-12 Kuba vs 2012-13 Methot. Right now I'm not arguing whether or not this is right for long term... I'm arguing whether or not the Sens will be as good as last year.

Kuba had the best season of his career.

''no idea how his passing and offensive game can develop paired with Karlsson'' - the guy is 27 years old and has never scored more than 17 points in a season including NHL, AHL and major junior. I think we can SAFELY say he is worse offensively than Kuba.

I have doubts Methot can match Kuba defensively, but even if he does, he can't match Kuba's two-way contributions at even strength, PP and PK.
What am I not "getting"? That you're living in the past?

What's the point of comparing Methot with the Kuba of the past? It's behind us and as time will go by, Kuba will continue to decline... He's 36 y/o now... The Sens are rebuilding, would you really trade Methot for Kuba straight up? Kuba had a great season but we all know he was a product of Karlsson... Don't "kid yourself" like you say

What did you think of Kuba 2010-11? lol he didn't even look like a NHL D-man

Financial reasons and other factors like age and physical play are big reasons why the Sens made that swap. Kuba simply didn't fit the Sens mold anymore. We had him for 4 years, it's ok let's move on

Quote:
2 seasons, 3 years. Has hardly played.

The guy has played only 3 relatively full seasons since 2006. That's insane. Not only is it unlikely he stays healthy, it's possible he won't produce even if he does.

What are you basing Lats being better than Foligno? He had ONE productive 55 game stretch in 2009-10 with one team. That's it. He's never touched Foligno's 47 points, not even close.
What? 2 seasons, 3 years? What are you talking about... In hockey a year = a season... stop trying to adjust things to fit your arguments

Latendresse hasn't miss much hockey from his minor days to 2010-11. In the NHL :

2006-07 80 games
2007-08 73 games
2008-09 56 games
2009-10 78 games
2010-11 11 games

He played 287/328 games in his first 4 seasons... missed only 41 games (12%), which is probably the average or under the average for NHL players. He has been injured the last 2 seasons, different injuries. Bad luck

Anyway, on what am I basing myself to say that Latendresse is a better hockey player than Foligno?

I have watched them both play A LOT? That's how most people in the hockey world do... and that's how most people would come to the same conclusion as me.

You know... I really know what people like you are made of... You don't even believe in these things yourself, you just want to be right. You have decided something and you'll be stubborn about it no matter what, you'll even go as far as say that Kuba is better than Karlsson offensively and defensively, but not overall


Quote:
Again, not talking long term here.
Ok so you're talking about what? Long term is important for a rebuilding team, not the fate of a 48 games season...

You're criticizing a trade without taking into consideration the long-term reasons why the team made that trade? Of course, you're not going to like it... doh

Quote:
Umm, if you actually read the thread and didn't selectively chose what you want to read, you would know that I said:
-I wouldn't trade Michalek for Gorges, I was commenting on the value
-Gorges is a #2 and Methot a #5 imo. big difference.

Foligno scored 47 points with Zack Smith and Chris Neil while Michalek scored 60 with Spezza and Karlsson. Really, you think Michalek is a god and Foligno a bum?
You also said that Gorges was a #1 if I'm not mistaken... So now he's a #2?

And even if you were only commenting on value... Gorges is worth Michalek and a 2nd?

You know... Todd White scored 73 points in 2008-09... So you're saying he's almost as good as Spezza? And we can "hope" that Spezza will be on White level in 3-4 years?


Last edited by Xspyrit: 01-12-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
01-12-2013, 07:47 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
To be fair, Phillips most common line mate for the season was Gonchar on the second pair, but he did spend about as much time with a combination of guys like Rundblad, Gilroy, Lee and Carkner on the 3rd pair.

By the end of the season though, he was primarily on the 3rd with either Gilroy or Carkner. So while he bounced around, I think it's fair to call him a 4-5 guy, leaning toward 5 last year.
i dont think thats true im pretty sure cowen-gonchar was the 2nd pairing for most of the year

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:02 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by praisealfie11 View Post
i dont think thats true im pretty sure cowen-gonchar was the 2nd pairing for most of the year
You are correct that Gonchar played primarily with Cowen, but Phillip's line mates changed so frequently that Gonchar was still his most common mate (31% of all his minutes). He was playing with top 4 paring guys about 44% of the time, again lending credence to the claim of 4-5 leaning towards 5th dman.

Here's how he was used for the entire season, courtesy of leftwinglock

CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 10.03%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 5.67%
CHRIS PHILLIPS DAVID RUNDBLAD 4.17%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 3.71%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 2.81%
CHRIS PHILLIPS BRIAN LEE 2.80%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MARK BOROWIECKI 0.51%
CHRIS PHILLIPS FILIP KUBA 0.48%

For the last 10 games of the season

CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 10.52%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 7.45%
CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 7.26%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 6.82%
CHRIS PHILLIPS FILIP KUBA 0.68%

Note: percentages represent of the total mins played by the team, not just Phillips.


Last edited by Micklebot: 01-12-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old
01-12-2013, 08:09 PM
  #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Here's how he was used for the entire season, courtesy of leftwinglock

CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 10.03%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 5.67%
CHRIS PHILLIPS DAVID RUNDBLAD 4.17%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 3.71%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 2.81%
CHRIS PHILLIPS BRIAN LEE 2.80%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MARK BOROWIECKI 0.51%
CHRIS PHILLIPS FILIP KUBA 0.48%

For the last 10 games of the season

CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 10.52%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 7.45%
CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 7.26%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 6.82%
CHRIS PHILLIPS FILIP KUBA 0.68%

Note: percentages represent of the total mins played by the team, not just Phillips.
phillips most common partner may have been gonchar, but gonchar's was cowen.
FILIP KUBA ERIK KARLSSON 29.57%
JARED COWEN SERGEI GONCHAR 16.79%
CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 10.03%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 5.67%
JARED COWEN BRIAN LEE 4.92%
JARED COWEN ERIK KARLSSON 4.42%
CHRIS PHILLIPS DAVID RUNDBLAD 4.17%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 3.71%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 2.81%
CHRIS PHILLIPS BRIAN LEE 2.8%

basically tells us that our lines were usually:
Kuba-Karlsson
Cowen-Gonchar
Phillips-whoever

late in games, doubleshifting, when kuba was injured, etc gave rise to phillips-gonchar, but it wasnt a normal pairing. Philips-Carkner/Lee/Gilroy/Rundblad was ~16%.

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:36 PM
  #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
phillips most common partner may have been gonchar, but gonchar's was cowen.
FILIP KUBA ERIK KARLSSON 29.57%
JARED COWEN SERGEI GONCHAR 16.79%
CHRIS PHILLIPS SERGEI GONCHAR 10.03%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT CARKNER 5.67%
JARED COWEN BRIAN LEE 4.92%
JARED COWEN ERIK KARLSSON 4.42%
CHRIS PHILLIPS DAVID RUNDBLAD 4.17%
CHRIS PHILLIPS MATT GILROY 3.71%
CHRIS PHILLIPS ERIK KARLSSON 2.81%
CHRIS PHILLIPS BRIAN LEE 2.8%

basically tells us that our lines were usually:
Kuba-Karlsson
Cowen-Gonchar
Phillips-whoever

late in games, doubleshifting, when kuba was injured, etc gave rise to phillips-gonchar, but it wasnt a normal pairing. Philips-Carkner/Lee/Gilroy/Rundblad was ~16%.
Well sort of. Gonchar and Cowen were together about 54% of the time, but for the remainder, Cowen was either with Karlson (~12.5%) or Lee (~12.5%) the remaining 21% he had a mix match of 3rd pairing linemates. He had stretches where he would get demoted to that 3rd line, not because of injuries, and Phillips would be bumped up.

You don't see Phillips with Gonchar 30% of all his ice time just because of double-shifting and 9 games of injury to Kuba.

I guess my point is, Phillips really didn't have a normal pairing, he bounce between the 3rd and second pair.

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Old
01-12-2013, 10:39 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Your arguments circulate on minutes per point on PP and strictly minute based stuff which ignore obvious things such as the amount of ice time each player has had per shift and QoC on power play.

Also, at the end its still a team game, like + -, don't expect Kuba's numbers to stay like that. Fluctuates, and Karlsson gets so much extra ice time it tilts his point per minute rating some. Its called fatigue, try running full speed for minute, and then do it for another minute. See what happens the second round.

I bring up Foligno vs Nash because of your obsession with one player being as good because of points per 60.

Rick Nash : Point per 26 minutes of ice time.

Nick Foligno : Point per 25 minutes of ice time.

Who you think gets more power play time between the two?

Rick Nash got 10x more in a trade, Erik Karlsson got a much better contract. My point is simple.

Its easy to cherry pick numbers, but its easy to see past it when you watch the games.
And again, not saying Kuba > Karlsson.

I'm saying Kuba's numbers being better are an indication than EK didn't carry him. That's all.

Very solid season for Kuba. His numbers indicate the play of a #1 d-man... yes inflated due to Karlsson, but very hard to believe it was just him.

If Methot plays the whole year with Karlsson, will his numbers be better than Karlsson? Hells no


Foligno vs Nash... did you read my post at all?

Nash played a shutdown role for team and faced the best players all the time... Foligno had sheltered minutes.

Nash played a defensive role in a crap offensive system and with crap offensive linemates. So his his points/ice time is lower than Foligno (who had an awesome season himself), that doesn't mean he's a worse player obviously. Nash is also used on the PK and was much more effective on the PP than Foligno, which adds extra value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Mandy, how can you say "Kuba is better offensively and defensively than Karlsson" and then two sentences later say Kuba is not better than Karlsson?
Pretty sure that first one you're quoting is in regards to PP and PK.


GF/ice time, GA/ice time, +/-/ice time and points/ice time.

Kuba > Karlsson in ALL of these on the PP and the PK.

So yes, Kuba > Karlsson on the PP and PK. Maybe if Kuba had played as many minutes as EK, Kuba would be worse.... we don't know. But yes I would still choose EK over Kuba on the PP.


Even strength, Kuba was better defensively. But Karlsson had about 3x his points/ice time I think so yeah Karlsson >> Kuba for sure.

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01-12-2013, 11:05 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
He spent 2% more time with Neil than Alfredsson ES, for all of about 18 mins over a season. Lets not pretend he didn't spend significant time on the 2nd line.

Care too look and see which line most of his points came from?

His GF/20 was 1.101 with Alfredsson, it was .816 with Neil
Here we go.

First all, you're trying to prove Foligno was slightly more productive with Alfredsson instead of Neil? Really? That's quite obvious, thanks though.



Foligno spent about 33% of his ice time with Alfredsson. He never played with Spezza. Therefore he spent about 1/3 of the season in the top 6. He spent 2/3 in the bottom 6 with scrubs like Neil (his most common linemate).

Qward said he spent the majority of the season in the top 6, which is clearly false.


The most common players Foligno was on the ice with were Jared Cowen and Chris Neil.

For Michalek, it was Spezza and Karlsson

Can you not see the difference?

Foligno scored 43 even strength points. Guess how many Michalek had? 43.


Not to mention Michalek getting much more PP time, on the 1st unit no less. Foligno didn't even get half of what Michalek got and when he was on the PP, it was the 2nd unit.


With all of this, Michalek managed to score a grand total of 13 more points. Congrats to him I guess.

But I guess we can all agree Michalek is a ''much much much... much better player''.

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01-12-2013, 11:17 PM
  #686
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If Foligno was such a good player, why wasnt he able to stick with the top six instead of being dropped down to the energy line?

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01-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #687
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Stats at times can be useful over watching a player, but the suddenness of how MAK arrives to conclusions is not convincing. They are at times not consistent with the general knowledge (like random players being better than Ovechkin), and in the few cases they are, MAK goes "See, these stats work". TLDR worth of jumping to conclusions is hard to follow.

Evaluating players based on statistics without watching them (Methot) is poor. I would prefer asking people who have watched a player than hope the statistician carried the 2 right.

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01-12-2013, 11:37 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
If Foligno was such a good player, why wasnt he able to stick with the top six instead of being dropped down to the energy line?
who knows. imo he should have been stapled to that 2nd line the whole year.

who knows

Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Stats at times can be useful over watching a player, but the suddenness of how MAK arrives to conclusions is not convincing. They are at times not consistent with the general knowledge (like random players being better than Ovechkin), and in the few cases they are, MAK goes "See, these stats work". TLDR worth of jumping to conclusions is hard to follow.

Evaluating players based on statistics without watching them (Methot) is poor. I would prefer asking people who have watched a player than hope the statistician carried the 2 right.
Thing is, pretty much nobody here is a good scout. Even real scouts are at times bad scouts.

People see what they want to see and remember what they want to remember.

ie. Foligno spending most of the season in the top 6 and Phillips being the #5.


When you use these stats, you have to look at context. Their team, their linemates, their opponents, their ice time.

Which is why it's hard to compare Foligno to Nash for example.


People are biased towards Foligno because... maybe they think he's dumb, or didn't score many goals.

But FACTS are, he was very productive offensively.

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01-13-2013, 07:11 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
If Foligno was such a good player, why wasnt he able to stick with the top six instead of being dropped down to the energy line?
I know you have the answer already but Foligno has a low hockey IQ and Greening is better.

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01-13-2013, 08:15 AM
  #690
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If you miss Foligno so much, start watching Columbus games.

Problem solved.

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01-13-2013, 08:18 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Disagree with the bolded, based on 2011-12 anyway. Kuba was very good defensively last year.

I don't necessarily disagree with the rest... however, contracts and age and stuff like that don't really matter in this argument (if you followed it the whole way) because I was strictly comparing the 2011-12 Sens to the 2012-13 Sens.

Kuba was exceptional last year, and Methot, pretty much no matter what, will not match that two-way contribution. Not even close imo.

Lats vs Foligno, who knows if Lats can match 2011-12 Foligno.

The 2011-12 Sens, with great contributions from Kuba and Foligno (they overachieved most likely) just squeaked into the playoffs.

Methot and Lats can't match it most likely. Therefore the Sens are in tough to make the playoffs. Add in the Cowen injury and it's not looking good at all.

Hence, the tank plan.
I'm not sure I've heard any hockey person of credibility, including members of the Sens or Panthers organizations, refer to Kuba's play last season as "Exceptional". He was good, and had solid chemistry with Karlsson. But I don't even think it was his best year with the Sens (his first was, IMO). I still think his D was softer last year than when he first arrived.

In terms of comparing this year to last year Sens, you have to take into consideration age. Players's Kuba's age typically see their play degrade year to year, where as d-men Methot's age typically see their play improve. As such, age matter when you are looking forward. Plus, if all you are worring about is maximizing performance in 2012-13, that's not a great long-term plan.

And neither is tanking, which is extremely problematic to actually do without causing a lot of damage to the organization. Coaches get fired, FA's stay away, young players learn to accept losing, fan base become disenchanted, players beging to stress and quibble amongst the turmoil. All that, and then you still have to get lucky to nab a franchise player anyway. We've had two very high picks in the last 5 years, but I'd still take a player we drafted in the teens (Karlsson) ahead of both top 10 guys if given the choice.

Bottom line, Sens aren't going to be a bottom 3 team or top 3 team regardless of the above players, so the idea of tanking or loading up for a Cup run are both not in line with what the team's path is. As such, I think this was the right move long-term.

That said, I'll miss Foligno. He would have been a great third line LWer going forward, especially if he learned to avoid the stupid penalties. All the goalie interference calls were getting ridiculous and cost the team a lot of goals against (and some games).

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01-13-2013, 09:20 AM
  #692
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i wanted to address this post earlier, but i got busy and ended up losing the post....
sorry for being late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
You don't get it do you?

It's 2011-12 Kuba vs 2012-13 Methot. Right now I'm not arguing whether or not this is right for long term... I'm arguing whether or not the Sens will be as good as last year.
what about 2012-2013 kuba vs. 2012-2013 methot? 2013-2014?
we have to look at the future in this case. if we apply the logic of looking at right now in deciding whether we win or lose to your spezza trade proposal, we get worse now, therefore lose the trade. will methot be better than kuba last year? i'll be the first to admit i'm very skeptical. you also have too look at each player's situation last season. kuba with karlsson>>methot without karlsson, on the blue jackets when considering last season. kuba with karlsson this season may not be as good due to decline. kuba this season with karlsson might only be slightly better than methot this season with karlsson, due to decline. you, off all people, should understand that players decline as they age.
tl;dr kuba this season isn't kuba last season, he's kuba this season, and a year older. methot might have chemistry with karlsson and form a solid pairing. logic you're applying to judge kuba>>methot means your spezza trade is garbage.

Quote:
''no idea how his passing and offensive game can develop paired with Karlsson'' - the guy is 27 years old and has never scored more than 17 points in a season including NHL, AHL and major junior. I think we can SAFELY say he is worse offensively than Kuba.
great players make average players look good. methot will look better this season (or next if he's rusty this year) that any other season of his career. i won't say that i've watched methot play, but if he has a good shot, karlsson will get him more goals, and just being paired with karlsson will get you more assists. methot will never be an offensive defenseman, i think everyone knows that. he's here to play well defensively.

Quote:
I have doubts Methot can match Kuba defensively, but even if he does, he can't match Kuba's two-way contributions at even strength, PP and PK.
kuba plays a defensive game based on positioning and stick work. he has no physical game, so this is all he has. kuba is slowing down. keeping the attackers to the outside, getting to a good spot in the d-zone, and not getting beat on the outside may be more difficult. kuba is like butter out there sometimes, so he can't compensate, or will have a hard time compensating for slowing down by holding up the attacker. i've heard that methot is a solid skater, and is a very solid defensive contributor. i have few doubts that his defensive game will be better than present kuba, future kuba, and maybe even past kuba (i really liked kuba, so that is a compliment to methot).

Quote:
2 seasons, 3 years. Has hardly played.

The guy has played only 3 relatively full seasons since 2006. That's insane. Not only is it unlikely he stays healthy, it's possible he won't produce even if he does.

What are you basing Lats being better than Foligno? He had ONE productive 55 game stretch in 2009-10 with one team. That's it. He's never touched Foligno's 47 points, not even close.
40 points is pretty close to 47.
they've put up similar numbers throughout their pro careers, actually. the difference is latendresse has put up over 20 goals. foligno also has had one standout season, so bashing latendresse for having one productive one weakens your argument.
i am a big foligno supporter, but i want to see what latendresse can do before saying we've made a downgrade here. i'm optimistic, due to lats' seemingly better finishing ability.

Quote:
Again, not talking long term here.
why aren't you? the past is the past and where the players are age-wise is different. kuba won't be exactly the same player he was last year, so arguing he's better now on what happened last year is irrelevant.

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Old
01-13-2013, 12:29 PM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Here we go.

First all, you're trying to prove Foligno was slightly more productive with Alfredsson instead of Neil? Really? That's quite obvious, thanks though.
You suggested he got 47 pts playing with scrubs. More goals were scored while he was on the ice with Alfredsson than while he was with anyone else. The point is, he did not as you suggest, score 47 pts playing with scrubs. He did it primarily while playing on the top 6.


Quote:
Foligno spent about 33% of his ice time with Alfredsson. He never played with Spezza. Therefore he spent about 1/3 of the season in the top 6. He spent 2/3 in the bottom 6 with scrubs like Neil (his most common linemate).
Here are the sens most frequent line combos,
123%
MILAN MICHALEK COLIN GREENING JASON SPEZZA 13.52%
KASPARS DAUGAVINS ZACK SMITH ERIK CONDRA 7.58%
MILAN MICHALEK JASON SPEZZA BOBBY BUTLER 4.09%
NICK FOLIGNO KYLE TURRIS DANIEL ALFREDSSON 3.57%
NICK FOLIGNO JIM OBRIEN CHRIS NEIL 3.47%
ERIK CONDRA KYLE TURRIS DANIEL ALFREDSSON 3.08%
DANIEL ALFREDSSON KYLE TURRIS COLIN GREENING 2.82%
MILAN MICHALEK JASON SPEZZA DANIEL ALFREDSSON 2.74%
NICK FOLIGNO ZACK SMITH CHRIS NEIL 2.45%
KASPARS DAUGAVINS ZACK SMITH CHRIS NEIL 2.42%
DANIEL ALFREDSSON COLIN GREENING JASON SPEZZA 2.4%
CHRIS NEIL ZACK SMITH ERIK CONDRA 2.12%
DANIEL ALFREDSSON KYLE TURRIS ROB KLINKHAMMER 1.89%
NICK FOLIGNO STEPHANE DA COSTA DANIEL ALFREDSSON 1.6%
BOBBY BUTLER COLIN GREENING JASON SPEZZA 1.49%
BOBBY BUTLER JESSE WINCHESTER ZENON KONOPKA 1.49%
NICK FOLIGNO DANIEL ALFREDSSON MILAN MICHALEK 1.37%
CHRIS NEIL COLIN GREENING ZACK SMITH 1.11%
NICK FOLIGNO STEPHANE DA COSTA BOBBY BUTLER 1.02%
MILAN MICHALEK KYLE TURRIS DANIEL ALFREDSSON 0.94%
ERIK CONDRA COLIN GREENING ZACK SMITH 0.93%
KASPARS DAUGAVINS ZENON KONOPKA BOBBY BUTLER 0.91%
NICK FOLIGNO PETER REGIN CHRIS NEIL 0.9%
ERIK CONDRA ZACK SMITH ZENON KONOPKA 0.89%
NICK FOLIGNO KYLE TURRIS BOBBY BUTLER 0.87%
If you look at all the instances where he was with one Alfredsson or Turris, it makes up about 49% of the lines with Foligno. Turris was our second line center with the exception of when we experimented with Foligno as a center, and of course prior to his arrival. The point is, he got plenty of time in the top 6.
Quote:


Qward said he spent the majority of the season in the top 6, which is clearly false.


The most common players Foligno was on the ice with were Jared Cowen and Chris Neil.

For Michalek, it was Spezza and Karlsson

Can you not see the difference?
Yes, the difference is consistant linemates. Fologno had his changed up, Spezza's stayed the same the whole year.
Quote:

Foligno scored 43 even strength points. Guess how many Michalek had? 43.

Not to mention Michalek getting much more PP time, on the 1st unit no less. Foligno didn't even get half of what Michalek got and when he was on the PP, it was the 2nd unit.

With all of this, Michalek managed to score a grand total of 13 more points. Congrats to him I guess.

But I guess we can all agree Michalek is a ''much much much... much better player''.
I love how in one post you talk about context with Nash vs Foligno, but then you come up with this gem. Yep, Michalek is a Far superior player to Foligno. He's a better goal scorer, he's better defensively, and he's better on the PP (that might be why he got 1st PP time, while Foligno was used sparingly on the 2nd unit). That's nothing against Foligno, but come on, I really can't understand you claiming otherwise with a straight face.

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Old
01-15-2013, 02:22 PM
  #694
Icelevel
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Likely, according to practice

Michalek-Spezza-Silfverberg
Latendresse-Turris-Alfredsson
Hoffman-Regin-Neil
Greening-Smith-Condra

Methot-Karlsson
Wiercioch-Gonchar
Phillips-Benoit

Edited D^


Last edited by Icelevel: 01-15-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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Old
01-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
Michalek-Spezza-Silfverberg
Latendresse-Turris-Alfredsson
Hoffman-Regin-Neil
Greening-Smith-Condra

Methot-Karlsson
Boro-Gonchar
Phillips-Wiercioch
i like that lineup a lot actually. with o'brien and daug as extras.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #696
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For what its worth: Methot looks great out there.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:18 PM
  #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
Michalek-Spezza-Silfverberg
Latendresse-Turris-Alfredsson
Hoffman-Regin-Neil
Greening-Smith-Condra

Methot-Karlsson
Boro-Gonchar
Phillips-Wiercioch
Interesting.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:21 PM
  #698
Qward
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I thought Wiercioch was paired with Gonchar this whole time...

Methot/Karlsson
Wiercioch/Gonchar
Phillips/Benoit

was my understanding.

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #699
Midas0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
Michalek-Spezza-Silfverberg
Latendresse-Turris-Alfredsson
Hoffman-Regin-Neil
Greening-Smith-Condra

Methot-Karlsson
Boro-Gonchar
Phillips-Wiercioch
I really like these lines. I think Hoffman - Regin - Neil could surprise a lot of people. Hoffy and Regs with their speed and skill with Neil's toughness could be strong imo. Hoffy and Regs doing their work with the puck, while Neil parks his ass infront of the net and bangs home those garbage goals. I'll take it!

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Old
01-15-2013, 03:25 PM
  #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
Michalek-Spezza-Silfverberg
Latendresse-Turris-Alfredsson
Hoffman-Regin-Neil
Greening-Smith-Condra

Methot-Karlsson
Boro-Gonchar
Phillips-Wiercioch
McLean has been interchanging Boro and Wier. The forwards have remined contant, while the Defence has been in constant change.

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