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Lupul OR Phaneuf for Stastny

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Old
01-12-2013, 11:36 PM
  #76
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The problem with Phaneuf is that if we were moving Staz for a dman I think we could find a better fit for EJ, someone like Yandle. So if we were to trade him Toronto just wouldn't be the best fit.

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01-12-2013, 11:52 PM
  #77
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The problem with Phaneuf is that if we were moving Staz for a dman I think we could find a better fit for EJ, someone like Yandle. So if we were to trade him Toronto just wouldn't be the best fit.
It doesn't matter, just as Stastny is on another level of value from Lupul, Phaneuf is on another level from Stastny. It makes absolutely no sense to move Phaneuf (our Captain, #1 D-man, and one of our few competent defensive D-men) for a low end #1 center. It fixes our need for a #1 center, but opens up a whole at #1 D, and we don't even have a #2 D either.

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01-12-2013, 11:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
It doesn't matter, just as Stastny is on another level of value from Lupul, Phaneuf is on another level from Stastny. It makes absolutely no sense to move Phaneuf (our Captain, #1 D-man, and one of our few competent defensive D-men) for a low end #1 center. It fixes our need for a #1 center, but opens up a whole at #1 D, and we don't even have a #2 D either.
Well, I certainly don't think Phaneuf is a guaranteed #1 Dman. If Stastny is a low end #1C then Phaneuf is a low end #1D.

Then it all comes down to your opinion of whats more valuable. a #1C or a #1D.

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Old
01-13-2013, 12:04 AM
  #79
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People that make threads like this, I'm convinced, are just looking for a fight. Player-X on their favorite team had a career year and they want to trade historically injury-prone Player-X at the peak of his value. The poster is typically looking to flip Player-X for Player-Y.

Player-Y had a poor year by Player-Y standards. Maybe the team was going through turmoil (coaching change, rebuild, bad start, injuries, lack of depth) and Player-Y's stats were unimpressive.
OP wants Player-Y and is offering an awesome, can't miss, act-now deal! OP wants to give you shining star Player-X for dumpy, old, washed up Player-Y.

I love this site... Same threads, just change the names.

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01-13-2013, 01:11 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
What situations does he play "utterly horrible" in? If you don't mind elaborating.
Throughout his career, when not given prime minutes, he has struggled to score. If Lupul isn't placed on the top line, he might not put up numbers. He sucked in Edmonton, he wasn't awesome in limited time in Philly or his second injury plagued time in Anaheim. His first stint in Anaheim, where he was a key to a scoring line, and his time in Toronto, where he played on Kessel's line have been the only really productive times of his career.

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01-13-2013, 01:41 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Throughout his career, when not given prime minutes, he has struggled to score. If Lupul isn't placed on the top line, he might not put up numbers. He sucked in Edmonton, he wasn't awesome in limited time in Philly or his second injury plagued time in Anaheim. His first stint in Anaheim, where he was a key to a scoring line, and his time in Toronto, where he played on Kessel's line have been the only really productive times of his career.
Yet, through his entire career he has managed to score at a 25g 50pt pace. Pretty amazing for a player with only two good stints.

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01-13-2013, 01:59 AM
  #82
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Yet, through his entire career he has managed to score at a 25g 50pt pace. Pretty amazing for a player with only two good stints.
Love that word.
In 8 seasons he's scored 25 goals - 50 points three times.

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01-13-2013, 02:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Love that word.
In 8 seasons he's scored 25 goals - 50 points three times.
its pace over his entire career. You can knock him for being injured a lot, but injuries don't make him a less talented player . So I'm not really seeing what your snide comment is suggesting, certainly not that he has "difficulty scoring" like the poster I was quoting was saying.

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01-13-2013, 02:09 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Yet, through his entire career he has managed to score at a 25g 50pt pace. Pretty amazing for a player with only two good stints.
If it were as cut and dry as you make is seem, he wouldn't have been traded so often. Let's recap.

- Traded to Edmonton as a main piece in the Pronger trade. Seen as a valued asset.

- Traded with Jason Smith (Oilers Captain at the time) for Joni Pitkanen and an aging Geoff Sanderson. Seen as very expendable by Edmonton due to poor performance.

- Traded with Luca Sbisa for Chris Pronger (again). Was pretty much the only piece with significant cap hit on Philly that they were willing to trade. Not seen as useless like in Edmonton, but with a list of injuries and average performance, was very expendable.

- Traded with Jake Gardiner for Francois Beauchemin. Both players seen as expendable cap dumps by their respective teams. Trade worked out amazing for the Leafs as Lupul bounced back to the level he had in his first go in Anaheim, but he wasn't seen as a significant piece by Anaheim...for the second time.

Lupul is a very skilled player, nobody is denying that. But with his history of up and down play and injuries, I'm sure his value around the league isn't close to what Toronto would be asking for.

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01-13-2013, 02:10 AM
  #85
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Its amazing how one good season made everyone forget that deep down Lupul blows.

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01-13-2013, 02:12 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
its pace over his entire career. You can knock him for being injured a lot, but injuries don't make him a less talented player . So I'm not really seeing what your snide comment is suggesting, certainly not that he has "difficulty scoring" like the poster I was quoting was saying.
Like it has been said, he's hit 50 points only three times in 8 years and has never scored 30 goals. He's had just as many years that were disappointments. I stand by my statement. The Leafs like what he's done for them, but its a gamble for other teams, if he doesn't fit in or gets hurt, he won't score his 25 ish goals or his 50 ish points, and that could well happen.

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01-13-2013, 02:14 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
its pace over his entire career. You can knock him for being injured a lot, but injuries don't make him a less talented player . So I'm not really seeing what your snide comment is suggesting, certainly not that he has "difficulty scoring" like the poster I was quoting was saying.
Remove the word pace. Nobody cares about pace.

He's played 8 seasons. He's scored 151 goals and 323, for an average of 19 goals and 40 points.

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01-13-2013, 02:14 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Like it has been said, he's hit 50 points only three times in 8 years and has never scored 30 goals. He's had just as many years that were disappointments. I stand by my statement. The Leafs like what he's done for them, but its a gamble for other teams, if he doesn't fit in or gets hurt, he won't score his 25 ish goals or his 50 ish points, and that could well happen.
No, I agree with you on that point that he won't be traded because its too much a risk for the other teams. My only issue is that Lupul has been much better throughout his career than I think you are giving him credit for. He simply has had such a rough time with injuries.

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01-13-2013, 02:16 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Remove the word pace. Nobody cares about pace.

He's played 8 seasons. He's scored 151 goals and 323, for an average of 19 goals and 40 points.
Impossible to measure career averages like that, especially with a oft-injured player like Lupul. GMs trade for Lupul knowing what he can do when he is in the lineup, thats why he's been dealt for Pronger twice.

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01-13-2013, 03:21 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Remove the word pace. Nobody cares about pace.

He's played 8 seasons. He's scored 151 goals and 323, for an average of 19 goals and 40 points.
You are immediately wrong in stating that he played 8 seasons; he only played what equates to about 6.28 seasons worth of games.

In that span; he has averaged 24 goals and 27.4 assists per 82 game season. Equating to 51.4 points.

Your math sucks.

If everyone used your thinking; Crosby would barely be a point per game player; due to his concussion. As he missed quite a few games in a few seasons.


Gaborik over 11 seasons has averaged 29.4 goals; 29.3 assists; for 58.8 points. According to your math.


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01-13-2013, 03:46 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
You are immediately wrong in stating that he played 8 seasons; he only played what equates to about 6.28 seasons worth of games.

In that span; he has averaged 24 goals and 27.4 assists per 82 game season. Equating to 51.4 points.

Your math sucks.

If everyone used your thinking; Crosby would barely be a point per game player; due to his concussion. As he missed quite a few games in a few seasons.


Gaborik over 11 seasons has averaged 29.4 goals; 29.3 assists; for 58.8 points. According to your math.
He's played 8 seasons. It's as simple as that. I don't care about "pace" or what "he would done" or "if healthy"... I care what he's done. He's played 8 seasons. Hit 25 goals - 50 points three times. Those are facts.

You did get the last part correct... Myself (and many others) do not value Gaborik very high because he can not stay on the ice. He is often injured an unable to play. Fans like to say "if XYZ had just been healthy, we WOULD OF won". No, it doesn't work that way. Injures are part of the sport. It's a reason a team like Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh can win Cups. They are built to deal with injures and continue on deep into the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Impossible to measure career averages like that, especially with a oft-injured player like Lupul. GMs trade for Lupul knowing what he can do when he is in the lineup, thats why he's been dealt for Pronger twice.
Well, you kind of get it.

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01-13-2013, 03:49 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
Impossible to measure career averages like that, especially with a oft-injured player like Lupul. GMs trade for Lupul knowing what he can do when he is in the lineup, thats why he's been dealt for Pronger twice.
No it's the proper way to measure them. It's what you get wil Lupul not what you would get in an ideal world if he didn't get injured

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01-13-2013, 09:19 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
People that make threads like this, I'm convinced, are just looking for a fight. Player-X on their favorite team had a career year and they want to trade historically injury-prone Player-X at the peak of his value. The poster is typically looking to flip Player-X for Player-Y.

Player-Y had a poor year by Player-Y standards. Maybe the team was going through turmoil (coaching change, rebuild, bad start, injuries, lack of depth) and Player-Y's stats were unimpressive.
OP wants Player-Y and is offering an awesome, can't miss, act-now deal! OP wants to give you shining star Player-X for dumpy, old, washed up Player-Y.

I love this site... Same threads, just change the names.
Yep! Great post!

I think you also get a feel for how 'available' a player is when you keep seeing their names come up in trade proposals from the fanbase. It's kind of a "we've seen what this player can provide and either a) we don't believe he'll be able to duplicate or hold up this kind of play long-term or b) he's a decent asset but I wouldn't mind parting with him to get a much better player" kind of thing.

You don't see many Avs fans trying to deal Stastny, Duchene or O'Reilly at all. We love these guys and want to keep them on our team long-term.

I remember like 4-5 years ago, I kept seeing certain Avs fans offer up Marek Svatos and Brett Clark in trade proposals all the time. Players that had a certain value but by their overall play you could certainly see some deficiencies. Big shocker, both of these guys are now looking for work to catch on with any team at all.

I really don't see the benefit to 'trying to pull the wool over the eyes' of fans from another fan base who don't get to see said player play as much and form their opinions strictly on reputation, just to get them to accept a trade??

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01-13-2013, 09:22 AM
  #94
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Haha! They're not getting Phaneuf for Stasny. They can keep him!

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01-13-2013, 09:23 AM
  #95
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Haha! They're not getting Phaneuf for Stasny. They can keep him!
THANK YOU!!!

[Again, no Avs fans is suggesting this at all]

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01-13-2013, 09:29 AM
  #96
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Haha! They're not getting Phaneuf for Stasny. They can keep him!
I would breathe a sigh of relief if you can bring Nonis and Sherman to agree on this.

Phaneuf kind of fits our needs but I loathe him.
Don't like him at all as a player.

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01-13-2013, 10:35 AM
  #97
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Haha! They're not getting Phaneuf for Stasny. They can keep him!
I'm glad we have your permission.

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Old
01-13-2013, 01:11 PM
  #98
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Stastny would be the perfect centreman for TO but not with this package. The worse thing is I am not sure TO has the pieces to get Stastny unless it is players they don't want to move.

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01-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #99
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No to either of them, thanks for thinking of us though.

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01-13-2013, 01:40 PM
  #100
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Lupul's value is nowhere near Stastny's.

Phaneuf... ehhh. I don't like him. He is without question one of the dumbest people I've ever seen speak on television, and it shows in his game. Littered with bad reads, brainfarts. The guy is just a meathead.

But, he is nasty and has some offence in his game. But not worth his cap hit. But to be fair, neither is Stastny. In a vacuum, I'd say that Stastny is worth more. I surely wouldn't trade him for Phaneuf.

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