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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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01-13-2013, 01:07 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I don't know if the reports were true about Despres and his dedication...that just sounds strange, but he's still a guy I just don't deal. He looked so ready for the NHL. He has size and skill. I am just not for that.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The AHL is the AHL, and the NHL is the NHL. That's why I said NHL-proven.

The Pens like drafting defense prospects, and have passed on highly touted forward prospects to take them - more highly touted than anyone you mentioned, in fact. Had that been their priority, they could've taken one. They didn't.

I don't see Despres getting traded anytime soon, but if he does, I'm sure it'll be for an established player, not a prospect.

The Pens drafted who they drafted at the time, either because they thought that the given player was the BPA on the board, or the best asset available on the board at the time. But one or two years out is very different from the draft. Some kids, even though they may not have stepped foot in the NHL or even the AHL, establish themseles as blue-chippers, regardless of where they were taken. So establishing & evaluation guys 1-2 years removed from the draft is not rocket science. In fact, it's a lot easier to do it then, and see how they progressed (or failed to progress) since their draft year.


And yes: I do agree with you that it would be ideal (and most likely) for the Pens to move a prospect for a more established player. But if you have the chance to get a guy like Teravainen for Despres, then that is something you have to SERIOULSlLY consider, even if he doesn't make this team for another year or two, because we need that type of player in the system.


Ditto goes for a guy like Tarasenko or any other elite prospect, even if they're not established. And it shouldn't matter anyway, because Despres is not likely to see time this year anyway, and we've got a guy like Dumoulin who should be just as capable, if not more so, if an injury demanded a call-up to a WBS guy.

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01-13-2013, 01:20 AM
  #652
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I agree with you Jmelm.

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01-13-2013, 01:22 AM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
The Pens drafted who they drafted at the time, either because they thought that the given player was the BPA on the board, or the best asset available on the board at the time. But one or two years out is very different from the draft. Some kids, even though they may not have stepped foot in the NHL or even the AHL, establish themseles as blue-chippers, regardless of where they were taken. So establishing & evaluation guys 1-2 years removed from the draft is not rocket science. In fact, it's a lot easier to do it then, and see how they progressed (or failed to progress) since their draft year.


And yes: I do agree with you that it would be ideal (and most likely) for the Pens to move a prospect for a more established player. But if you have the chance to get a guy like Teravainen for Despres, then that is something you have to SERIOULSlLY consider, even if he doesn't make this team for another year or two, because we need that type of player in the system.


Ditto goes for a guy like Tarasenko or any other elite prospect, even if they're not established. And it shouldn't matter anyway, because Despres is not likely to see time this year anyway, and we've got a guy like Dumoulin who should be just as capable, if not more so, if an injury demanded a call-up to a WBS guy.
Shero's never done it before, so I'll believe it when I see it, jmelm. It's more a product of a fanbase hungry for top 6 options in the pool than anything based in the team's history under this GM.

Teravainen is not doing anything that couldn't have been reasonably predicted at the draft, and Tarasenko simply won't be available.

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01-13-2013, 08:41 AM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Shero's never done it before, so I'll believe it when I see it, jmelm. It's more a product of a fanbase hungry for top 6 options in the pool than anything based in the team's history under this GM.

Teravainen is not doing anything that couldn't have been reasonably predicted at the draft, and Tarasenko simply won't be available.
I would imagine Shero prefering Saad to Teravainen. Swapping him for Maatta would be ideal. Teravainen would be reunited with a very promising team-mate (National team). Both teams would benefit when you think about it. However, the Hawks would probably want Despres instead given that he's pretty close to ready to playing in the NHL.

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01-13-2013, 09:10 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The man is a year and a half removed from being the #6 scorer in the league, and 2/3 of what you're offering is waiver-wire material. Unbelievable.
I am 100% behind you on this one. Deadline acquisitions are never going to be cheap. They are typically for an impending UFA. I have to assume most of the people arguing against getting Iginla were furious when we traded for Hossa. If we can turn guys who might some day be good NHL players into a guy who IS one of the best wings in the world and has been for the last decade, I don't care if its only for a playoff run. I'm not saying to sell the whole farm either, but we are trying to win now.

Odds are very good that Iginla helps us win now more than a group like Despres, TK and that first ever will.

ps: I have no idea what they would actually want for him.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 01-13-2013 at 09:15 AM.
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01-13-2013, 10:09 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I am 100% behind you on this one. Deadline acquisitions are never going to be cheap. They are typically for an impending UFA. I have to assume most of the people arguing against getting Iginla were furious when we traded for Hossa. If we can turn guys who might some day be good NHL players into a guy who IS one of the best wings in the world and has been for the last decade, I don't care if its only for a playoff run. I'm not saying to sell the whole farm either, but we are trying to win now.

Odds are very good that Iginla helps us win now more than a group like Despres, TK and that first ever will.

ps: I have no idea what they would actually want for him.
Thanks - it seems like common sense to me. I mean, we're a contender and we have the best and deepest group of defense prospects in the league, but some people are scoffing at the thought of giving up one of them for Jarome Iginla for a playoff run?

Come on.

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01-13-2013, 10:21 AM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Thanks - it seems like common sense to me. I mean, we're a contender and we have the best and deepest group of defense prospects in the league, but some people are scoffing at the thought of giving up one of them for Jarome Iginla for a playoff run?

Come on.
+1. We know they're all not gonna play here, which means some are going to end up being used for upgrades, most likely at winger. That being a given, who and when are we waiting for when we should be pushing for the cup every season? i don't think Stamkos is coming available anytime soon. You have a shot at a guy like that who could be the difference between a cup and not right now moving a piece or two that can be afforded, you do it.

Plus people are acting like it is a given taht it's purely a rental. I agree it def could be and we can't assume it isn't, but the hardest part with a guy like Iginla is getting him out of Calgary. This late in his career, if he has already moved, he may want to stay somewhere like here if it goes well and he clicks well with Sid and try to win more before retiring. It's an easier potential situation to sell than a Hossa who is in his prime, getting mega offers from everywhere. Iginla at that age will be a smaller contract and it's not a given he will suddenly fall off the cliff right now. Guys like Alffy are a few years older, still putting up 60 pts last year and Iginla is such an ideal fit for what we are looking for in the top 6 its worth the risk. Physical, leader, consistent goal scorer who is a RH shot that could fit perfectly in what we have been missing on the PP


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01-13-2013, 10:26 AM
  #658
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Besides, it's not like we wont be drafting another defenseman or 5 this summer anyway.

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01-13-2013, 10:29 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Besides, it's not like we wont be drafting another defenseman or 5 this summer anyway.
exactly

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01-13-2013, 10:38 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Besides, it's not like we wont be drafting another defenseman or 5 this summer anyway.
Post of the Preseason.

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01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
  #661
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Let's look at the situation from the other side, shall we. Chicago isn't going to deal Teravainen or Saad for Simon Despres. The 'Hawks have 8 NHL-caliber defensemen right now, plus an NHL-ready prospect in Dylan Olsen. They don't have great prospects beyond that. So, if anything, the 'Hawks would want an instant upgrade OR a longer-range prospect for their defense. Despres is too similar to what they already have in Olsen, imo.

If we're talking Chicago, we HAVE to talk goaltending. I believe a Fleury for Kane deal could work, depending on the other elements involved. I think we would need a goalie back, and I think we would want to deal another salary to Chicago in order to even out the money. But I think it's doable. Two Stanley Cup champions whose star has dimmed since winning it all. A change of scenery could do wonders for both.

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01-13-2013, 11:32 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Let's look at the situation from the other side, shall we. Chicago isn't going to deal Teravainen or Saad for Simon Despres. The 'Hawks have 8 NHL-caliber defensemen right now, plus an NHL-ready prospect in Dylan Olsen. They don't have great prospects beyond that. So, if anything, the 'Hawks would want an instant upgrade OR a longer-range prospect for their defense. Despres is too similar to what they already have in Olsen, imo.

If we're talking Chicago, we HAVE to talk goaltending. I believe a Fleury for Kane deal could work, depending on the other elements involved. I think we would need a goalie back, and I think we would want to deal another salary to Chicago in order to even out the money. But I think it's doable. Two Stanley Cup champions whose star has dimmed since winning it all. A change of scenery could do wonders for both.
Penguins aren't trading Fleury....

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01-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Let's look at the situation from the other side, shall we. Chicago isn't going to deal Teravainen or Saad for Simon Despres. The 'Hawks have 8 NHL-caliber defensemen right now, plus an NHL-ready prospect in Dylan Olsen. They don't have great prospects beyond that. So, if anything, the 'Hawks would want an instant upgrade OR a longer-range prospect for their defense. Despres is too similar to what they already have in Olsen, imo.

If we're talking Chicago, we HAVE to talk goaltending. I believe a Fleury for Kane deal could work, depending on the other elements involved. I think we would need a goalie back, and I think we would want to deal another salary to Chicago in order to even out the money. But I think it's doable. Two Stanley Cup champions whose star has dimmed since winning it all. A change of scenery could do wonders for both.
We don't need a wing THAT bad. If MAF absolutely ***** the bed again in the playoffs...then its something to consider. But then your weakness goes from the wing to the goal...and that has NEVER proven a good thing.

We just have a complete inability to develop players. If they are not high draft, instant impact guys...we struggle in bringing them up.

Zatkoff isn't the MAF replacement and neither is Theissen. Beyond that our goalie prospects are as dismal as our wing prospects. Again...the wing debacle we have now could have been avoided or at least soothed had we taken Forsberg or Grigs over Pouliot...but we didn't and thems the breaks.

Now we are moving forward into a season with one of TK, Cooke, or unlikely Tangradi in the Top 6 and a soured GM on a defenseman kick and a gaps in the Top 6 and Top 4.

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01-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I am 100% behind you on this one. Deadline acquisitions are never going to be cheap. They are typically for an impending UFA. I have to assume most of the people arguing against getting Iginla were furious when we traded for Hossa. If we can turn guys who might some day be good NHL players into a guy who IS one of the best wings in the world and has been for the last decade, I don't care if its only for a playoff run. I'm not saying to sell the whole farm either, but we are trying to win now.

Odds are very good that Iginla helps us win now more than a group like Despres, TK and that first ever will.

ps: I have no idea what they would actually want for him.
Great pickup. However he hadn't turned 35 last summer, and not skated/played for the last few months.

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01-13-2013, 12:15 PM
  #665
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Great pickup. However he hadn't turned 35 last summer, and not skated/played for the last few months.
Iginla is still really freaking good. I don't care if he's 35. Why does that even matter for a deadline pickup?

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01-13-2013, 12:16 PM
  #666
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Yeah, Hossa had just turned 29 when we got him. Big difference imo.

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01-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Great pickup. However he hadn't turned 35 last summer, and not skated/played for the last few months.
Iginla will be elite for several more years. Moving a Hossa type package for him is worth it even if it's just for one playoff run. He's everything we need in a winger.

I don't understand how you could possibly argue against it.

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01-13-2013, 12:19 PM
  #668
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Yeah, Hossa had just turned 29 when we got him. Big difference imo.
for the 2 - 4 month span that we had Hossa and would likely have Iginla, why does that matter at all?

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01-13-2013, 12:20 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Iginla is still really freaking good. I don't care if he's 35. Why does that even matter for a deadline pickup?
Depends what you have to give up. I'm not as convinced he's going to stay elite for a few more years as some of you. Like they say, father time is undefeated. It will catch up to Iginla sooner than later at his age.

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01-13-2013, 12:22 PM
  #670
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Not sure if it already been said but makenzie tweeted tangradi, jeffrey and bennet are in the hunt to flank malkin and neal so hopefully that puts the glass and cooke rumours to rest

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01-13-2013, 12:22 PM
  #671
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Depends what you have to give up. I'm not as convinced he's going to stay elite for a few more years as some of you. Like they say, father time is undefeated. It will catch up to Iginla sooner than later at his age.
I don't care if he lasts a few more years. Give me 2-4 months.

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01-13-2013, 12:22 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Iginla will be elite for several more years. Moving a Hossa type package for him is worth it even if it's just for one playoff run. He's everything we need in a winger.

I don't understand how you could possibly argue against it.
Couldn't agree more. I was against the idea of moving a Staal-type player but I'm good with a package of good prospects/picks for him. Lines of Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla and Kunitz-Malkin-Neal gives us the best top 6 in the league.

Also, am I the only one that feels like its inevitable that Iginla becomes a Penguin? I've felt that way about three players over the past 7 years and a three ended up here haha

Hossa - Although I did think we'd have to move Staal for him

Ponikarovsky - I didn't listen to everyone that told me what a bad fit that would be and was so happy when it happened. Whoops!

Sullivan - Always thought he'd click with Sid well. He was okay and definitely helped the PP.

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01-13-2013, 12:22 PM
  #673
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Depends what you have to give up. I'm not as convinced he's going to stay elite for a few more years as some of you. Like they say, father time is undefeated. It will catch up to Iginla sooner than later at his age.
He's not most players. He's a pillar of consistency. Physical freak. Who gives if he drops off a little, he still has the size and shot to be a 30 goal guy with Sid until he retires.

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01-13-2013, 12:24 PM
  #674
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He's not most players. He's a pillar of consistency. Physical freak. Who gives if he drops off a little, he still has the size and shot to be a 30 goal guy with Sid until he retires.
agreed. Even if he slips a bit, he'll be our best or 2nd best winger.

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01-13-2013, 12:27 PM
  #675
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I think Iggy has three years left in him to play elite hockey or just below that level.

I wouldn't be upset with anyone sent the other way aside from Morrow.

Thing is, I don't think Feaster will trade him, unless Iggy asks.

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