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Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

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01-13-2013, 12:55 PM
  #701
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
that's obviously the risk that comes with a rental.
Sure, and as I said, the only real question here is whether we get the risk taking Shero who put the finishing touches on a cup winner or the risk averse Shero who managed the team from the day the Pens won the cup to the day Staal forced his hand.

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01-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #702
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I hear he made a pretty big deal to bring in a decent scoring winger in James Neal

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01-13-2013, 12:57 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Last year?

You know, I posed this question elsewhere, and I'll ask you now:

Hossa deal: Big risk.

Whitney for Kunitz/Tangradi: Also a risk, in that the deal was made hoping Letang was ready to step up.

After the Pens won the cup, name one deal, aside from the one with Staal that he had no choice to make, that could have been considered from the Pens perspective a risk.
He did trade away future superstar Luca Caputi

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01-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #704
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I hear he made a pretty big deal to bring in a decent scoring winger in James Neal
Was it a risk?

Don't confuse a big deal with a risky one like the Hossa deal or Whitney for Kunitz/Tangradi.

What did he trade?

Alex Gologoski was the Pens #5 defenseman. He traded his #5 defenseman for a legit young scoring line winger and a replacement #5 defenseman.

I don't call that taking a risk.

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01-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #705
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He did trade away future superstar Luca Caputi
Trading Caputi for Ponikauseless was as big a risk as trading Gologoski for Neal and Niskanen.

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01-13-2013, 01:01 PM
  #706
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It looked like a risky move when Neal had like 1 goal in 20 games.

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01-13-2013, 01:03 PM
  #707
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It looked like a risky move when Neal had like 1 goal in 20 games.
1. It didn't look that way even then.

2. It certainly looked nothing like a risk when the deal actually was done. A #5 defenseman for a bona fide 30 goal man and a replacement #5 defenseman. Again, that's the deal Shero made to get Neal.

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01-13-2013, 01:05 PM
  #708
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Side question: If some people here are moaning about the price to rent Iginla, what happens if/when impending UFA Corey Perry becomes available?

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01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. It didn't look that way even then.

2. It certainly looked nothing like a risk when the deal actually was done. A #5 defenseman for a bona fide 30 goal man and a replacement #5 defenseman. Again, that's the deal Shero made to get Neal.
I agree with you that it wasn't considered a big risk even when it happened. Heck 99% of fans (here and around town) were geeked to get a winger as good as Neal for Gogo.

But it IS the perfect example of what we are talking about happening - Shero using his surplus of defenseman riches to bring in a Top 6 winger. It shows that Shero has done it again and is most likely going to do it again, maybe even in the very near future.

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01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. It didn't look that way even then.

2. It certainly looked nothing like a risk when the deal actually was done. A #5 defenseman for a bona fide 30 goal man and a replacement #5 defenseman. Again, that's the deal Shero made to get Neal.
isn't that better than taking risks? I would much rather him make sure fire trades than risks. I want him to take risks if the sure thing deals aren't available.

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01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #711
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As the saying goes, it takes one to tango.

Has Shero given us any reason to think he won't swoop in and make a deal when there's one in the offing? Rick Nash was the last big name moved, and I'm personally okay we didn't win out that sweepstakes.

This just seems like something you say with nothing more than hindsight being considered.

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01-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Last year?

You know, I posed this question elsewhere, and I'll ask you now:

Hossa deal: Big risk.

Whitney for Kunitz/Tangradi: Also a risk, in that the deal was made hoping Letang was ready to step up.

After the Pens won the cup, name one deal, aside from the one with Staal that he had no choice to make, that could have been considered from the Pens perspective a risk.
Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen.

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01-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Side question: If some people here are moaning about the price to rent Iginla, what happens if/when impending UFA Corey Perry becomes available?

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01-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #714
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I don't see how someone that had never hit 30 goals at any level is a bonafide 30 goal man.

Also, Goligoski was 3rd amongst defensemen in ice time, so he wasn't really a #5 guy either.

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01-13-2013, 01:11 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I don't see how someone that had never hit 30 goals at any level is a bonafide 30 goal man.

Also, Goligoski was 3rd amongst defensemen in ice time, so he wasn't really a #5 guy either.
and Niskanen was considered to be negative value coming back our way

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01-13-2013, 01:11 PM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Side question: If some people here are moaning about the price to rent Iginla, what happens if/when impending UFA Corey Perry becomes available?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Ogrezilla said it perfectly

As a rental it's got to be a Hossa-esque package of a top prospect (Beau Bennett goes home?), a #1 pick, and some pieces of lesser prospects/3rd line types?

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01-13-2013, 01:12 PM
  #717
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Macintyre, Thiessen and Zatkoff on waivers

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01-13-2013, 01:13 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
1. It didn't look that way even then.

2. It certainly looked nothing like a risk when the deal actually was done. A #5 defenseman for a bona fide 30 goal man and a replacement #5 defenseman. Again, that's the deal Shero made to get Neal.
So basically, you want to criticize Shero for making a great, big time trade that minimized risk and paid off incredibly well.

I don't really want my GM making risky trades all the time just for the sake of making risky trades. Only a panicky idiot does that with a contender. We have a lot going right for us, we don't need to shake the foundation every deadline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I don't see how someone that had never hit 30 goals at any level is a bonafide 30 goal man.

Also, Goligoski was 3rd amongst defensemen in ice time, so he wasn't really a #5 guy either.
Yep, KIRK's playing a bit fast and loose with the facts there.

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01-13-2013, 01:13 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post



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01-13-2013, 01:16 PM
  #720
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I don't understand how Shero doesn't get credit for that deal because it wasn't enough of a "risk". Are we trying to make good deals or just take risks because I'd damn well just make great trades. By that logic if Shero makes 5 more deals like the Neal deal and we're absolutely loaded, he doesn't get credit for not pushing his hand and taking a big risk. Maybe he should trade Malkin for a boatload of blue chip prospects and #1's. Very risky and could win us multiple cups in 5 years so at least he gets credit for trying.

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01-13-2013, 01:22 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
I would imagine Shero prefering Saad to Teravainen. Swapping him for Maatta would be ideal. Teravainen would be reunited with a very promising team-mate (National team). Both teams would benefit when you think about it. However, the Hawks would probably want Despres instead given that he's pretty close to ready to playing in the NHL.

Well, simply put: IMO, Teravainen is a better prospect than Saad, so I think Shero & the Pens would prefer to get the best player possible back in the deal. If I'm Shero, or any scout/GM, I choose Teravainen over Saad every day of the week.


As for Chicago's hypothetical interest in Maatta, Olli hasn't raised his stock significantly since the draft. I would say he has plateaued and looks like he's doing fine; whereas TT looks like he's the real deal and not a flash in the pan. With TT, you're talking about a guy who has considerably more upside than Maatta, and has always been regarded as a better prospect.


Finally, TT is probably NHL ready now or next season, whereas Maatta is at least 2-3 years away, so I'm that Chicago would prefer a guy like Despres or Dumoulin who are closer to NHL ready -- but neither guy alone would be enough to get TT, so Pens would have to add, and CHI would have to LOVE who they are getting back, because TT is looking like an absolute stud, top-10 prospect league-wide right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Penguins aren't trading Fleury....
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I don't care if he lasts a few more years. Give me 2-4 months.

I want Iginla, but not by trade. We need to keep our young assets to remain competitive long-term. No way do I want to move guys like Pouliot + Harrington + whatever to get Iginla, when we have as good a chance as any team to sign him as a UFA a few months later.

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01-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
we didn't re-sign Hossa and it was still a great trade. Deadline rental deals are made to win now. if you can re-sign them after, all the better. It sounds like you are just against the idea of a rental.
Not for a lack of trying though.

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01-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick87your71Poison View Post
I don't understand how Shero doesn't get credit for that deal because it wasn't enough of a "risk". Are we trying to make good deals or just take risks because I'd damn well just make great trades. By that logic if Shero makes 5 more deals like the Neal deal and we're absolutely loaded, he doesn't get credit for not pushing his hand and taking a big risk. Maybe he should trade Malkin for a boatload of blue chip prospects and #1's. Very risky and could win us multiple cups in 5 years so at least he gets credit for trying.
It is a little counter-intuitive, isn't it?

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01-13-2013, 01:26 PM
  #724
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Macintyre, Thiessen and Zatkoff on waivers
Can teams pick them up?

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01-13-2013, 01:31 PM
  #725
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isn't that better than taking risks? I would much rather him make sure fire trades than risks. I want him to take risks if the sure thing deals aren't available.
Well sure, a no lose proposition is better than not having to take a risk. Tell me how many cup winners have been built entirely with no lose propositions.

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