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Canucks sign UFA D Cam Barker to 1-Year, $700K Deal

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01-13-2013, 02:20 PM
  #151
m9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
D depth has dropped off a cliff in a year

2011-12
Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Salo
Ballard Rome
Alberts Sulzer
Tanev

2013
Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Garrison
Ballard Tanev
Alberts Barker
Joslin?

So let's say for example in extreme situation the team has 3 injuries on D (more likely to happen after lockout/no pre season apparently) to the top 6. That leaves you with:

Hamhuis Sulzer
Edler Tanev
Alberts Rome

vs

Hamhuis Tanev
Edler Alberts
Barker Joslin?

For the past few years, the team has been losing dmen to free agency at an alarming rate, and the chickens is at risk of coming home to roost. D depth was taken for granted. Lost to free agency without significant compensation:

Weaver
Ohlund
Mitchell
Ehrhoff
Salo
Rome

That's an entire NHL D corps.

not to mention the Sulzer/Gragnani trade (I was optimistic until I saw Gragnani play)

Sorry to be a debbie downer but its true
How is the depth much worse? Garrison is a substantial upgrade over the version of Salo we had last year. Oh and one of the main reasons we had so many injuries on D was because Salo was the one constantly hurt. People like to talk about Sulzer like some god because he played well in Buffalo, but he showed little here. Gragnani was brutal. So all of a sudden our depth has fallen off a cliff going from Salo and Gragnani/Sulzer to Garrison and Barker? I'll take that 'drop' anytime.

Also your list of the guys we lost for nothing is nonsense. How about guys we've signed like Garrison and Hamhuis? How did we get Mitchell and Rome in the first place. We got Ehrhoff for nothing and traded him for a pick on the way out. Players come and go in free agency, and the Canucks have done just fine with their D moves.


Last edited by m9: 01-13-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
01-13-2013, 02:26 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
This posts sounds eeriely similar to the EDM signs Cam Barker thread that i just read. Only it was "We have an organization filled with youth, so hopefully this will take some of the pressure on Barker and he can perform to the potential he has shown. He is only 25 and is only 3 years removed from a 40 point season. If he sucks, we can send him down. How is this a terrible move?" I don't know if you can find an Oiler fan today, that says it wasn't a terrible move for them.

This is the 3rd NHL team to give him a chance. 3rd times a charm?

If you have been following my convo with DtS, it is been debating his effect on the Wolves and that is one of my biggest concerns. I simply do not want him on the Wolves. He is not a good player at the AHL level. Several people have chimed in saying things to the same effect, but no one is listening.
The Oilers gave Barker $2.2mil with designs of him being a top 4 dman. Barker very well would be #10 on the Canucks depth chart if Luongo returns a depth defender. Apples and oranges.

Would Barker get an NHL contract if he was not a decent AHL defender? Something tells me this is just another case of Barker not getting the same benefit of the doubt by fans as the prospects like Polasek, Sauve, Connauton get. I have a feeling an AHL coaching staff will think higher of Barker than fans do. Not unlike a veteran like Ebbett being roundly criticized while a Mallet gets praised, even though Ebbett is considerably better. People can't help but be bias when watching our farm team. You're often willing to look on the bright side of a prospect, whereas veteran AHL'ers aren't afforded that same luxury. Coaches just want to win games - hence they play the players they deem the best. And we say they're biased to the veterans...

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01-13-2013, 02:27 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Kid Canuck View Post
It's a depth d man signing for 700k lol, gimmie a break
And that's the way it should stay. He should remain an 8th D, never to see the light of day.

Knowing AV and Bowness' penchant for strange decisions on D, who knows if Barker will be thrown into a more prominent role.

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01-13-2013, 02:30 PM
  #154
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So are there re-entry waivers in the new CBA? If we do end up sending him down to Chicago could we call him back up? If that's the case then he could easily end up being 9-10 on the depth chart before it's all said and done.

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01-13-2013, 02:32 PM
  #155
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I actually feel more comfortable having Barker than Gragnani.

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01-13-2013, 02:33 PM
  #156
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****in terrible

i'd question what the hell our pro scouts are thinking but cam barker is barely a pro hockey player at this point so i don't know

also lol @ the canucks fans that are running to the trade forum to defend this signing, some of you are way too sensitive

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01-13-2013, 02:34 PM
  #157
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I actually feel more comfortable having Barker than Gragnani.
Not comfortable with either player - so take the guy with the lower cap hit.

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01-13-2013, 02:35 PM
  #158
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yeah i'd have to wonder what planet mike gillis is on to think this would be a good signing

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01-13-2013, 02:37 PM
  #159
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Holy over-reaction batman. He flails he's off the books next summer and is signed for about league minimum. He's not going to be the difference between a cup.

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01-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #160
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yeah i'd have to wonder what planet mike gillis is on to think this would be a good signing
planet "i'm the best GM in the world so i can see things in ****** players that other GMs can't"

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01-13-2013, 02:39 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Oilers gave Barker $2.2mil with designs of him being a top 4 dman. Barker very well would be #10 on the Canucks depth chart if Luongo returns a depth defender. Apples and oranges.

Would Barker get an NHL contract if he was not a decent AHL defender? Something tells me this is just another case of Barker not getting the same benefit of the doubt by fans as the prospects like Polasek, Sauve, Connauton get. I have a feeling an AHL coaching staff will think higher of Barker than fans do. Not unlike a veteran like Ebbett being roundly criticized while a Mallet gets praised, even though Ebbett is considerably better. People can't help but be bias when watching our farm team. You're often willing to look on the bright side of a prospect, whereas veteran AHL'ers aren't afforded that same luxury. Coaches just want to win games - hence they play the players they deem the best. And we say they're biased to the veterans...
That seems to be what has happened here. Because he isn't "decent". When i watched him, I was a neutral party, we had no intentions of signing him then. So to call me biased, i think is a bit unfair.

Have i given any benefit of the doubt to Sauve or Connauton this year? None whatsoever, Sauve is on his way to playing himself out of a contract and i've been arguing against Connauton's NHL upside for some time now.

Who has said Mallet is better than Ebbett? I've read the opinion Mallet is better than Friesen but never the former opinion. They were not even playing for the same spots. What people complained about Ebbett was getting preferential treatment despite inconsistent play and was often used as an example against Schroeder, not Mallet.

I'm not sure how you can say we are biased against Vets. We have consistently praised the play of Brett Sterling, Pinizzotto, and of late Joslin/Andrew Gordon.

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01-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #162
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****in terrible

i'd question what the hell our pro scouts are thinking but cam barker is barely a pro hockey player at this point so i don't know

also lol @ the canucks fans that are running to the trade forum to defend this signing, some of you are way too sensitive
I'll just never understand why some fan sitting at a computer thinks they have a better read on a player than NHL scouts watching the guy skate in person... Not so much a defence of Barker as a general query.

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01-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
IMO he is in the running for worst player in the NHL.
As is almost every #9 dman around the league.

Barker has apparently battled a lot of injuries the last couple years. If he's healthy, maybe his play picks up to the point where he can be a useful #7-8 defender. If not, he improves the depth in Chicago.

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01-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
I'll just never understand why some fan sitting at a computer thinks they have a better read on a player than NHL scouts watching the guy skate in person... Not so much a defence of Barker as a general query.
This is as an oddball of a signing as Marco Sturm was. Good thing he turned him and an injured Sammy into Booth, but Barker probably has negative value as of now.

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01-13-2013, 02:41 PM
  #165
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How is the depth much worse? Garrison is a substantial upgrade over the version of Salo we had last year. Oh and one of the main reasons we had so many injuries on D was because Salo was the one constantly hurt. People like to talk about Sulzer like some god because he played well in Buffalo, but he showed little here. Gragnani was brutal. So all of a sudden our depth has fallen off a cliff going from Salo and Gragnani/Sulzer to Garrison and Barker? I'll take that 'drop' anytime.

Also your list of the guys we lost for nothing is nonsense. How about guys we've signed like Garrison and Hamhuis? How did we get Mitchell and Rome in the first place. We got Ehrhoff for nothing and traded him for a pick on the way out. Players come and go in free agency, and the Canucks have done just fine with their D moves.

Gragnani also played well in Buffalo

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01-13-2013, 02:41 PM
  #166
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yeah i'd have to wonder what planet mike gillis is on to think this would be a good signing
Wish MG would stop trying to resurrect people's careers by signing guys who clearly can't compete anymore.

I'd rather roll the dice on Corrado then Barker. In addition if we needed a depth guy why not Vandermeer, at least he would bring some much needed grit and toughness

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01-13-2013, 02:43 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Waveburner View Post
Every neutral opinion I have heard on Barker is "lazy, terrible skater, zero hockey IQ".

IMO he is in the running for worst player in the NHL.

If you ask me ever since the '11 offseason it has been one brutal move after another for Gillis, notwithstanding the Garrison signing.

I think Gillis has officially used up all my blind faith.


Are you kidding me? It's a depth signing. He could completely flop and I still wouldn't care, and it would have little to no impact on how I view Gillis whatsoever.


One brutal move after another indeed.

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01-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #168
m9
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This is as an oddball of a signing as Marco Sturm was. Good thing he turned him and an injured Sammy into Booth, but Barker probably has negative value as of now.
The Sturm signing was brutal because of the price tag, I think most at the time would have given him a shot for 700k

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01-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
I'll just never understand why some fan sitting at a computer thinks they have a better read on a player than NHL scouts watching the guy skate in person... Not so much a defence of Barker as a general query.
Buffalo Sabres scouts only watch tape to scout players and yet their results have been excellent. They also use (advanced) stats and other tools/information to help them make their decisions.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that some posters on these forums might actually be better talent evaluators than some scouts. I know there's certainly some guys on here that watch at least as much hockey as the scouts do.

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01-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
This is as an oddball of a signing as Marco Sturm was. Good thing he turned him and an injured Sammy into Booth, but Barker probably has negative value as of now.
Again, nothing to do with Barker situation, just in general the arm chair GM stuffs cracks me up. There is so much more to it than people will ever understand...

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01-13-2013, 02:45 PM
  #171
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So are there re-entry waivers in the new CBA? If we do end up sending him down to Chicago could we call him back up? If that's the case then he could easily end up being 9-10 on the depth chart before it's all said and done.
No re-entry waivers so assuming he clears waivers on the way down he can be recalled anytime without any cap risk. Given the fact that the first $900K of an AHL player's salary doesn't count against the cap, moves like this were exactly what that rule was designed for.

Though personally I'd prefer they leveraged the new rules to acquire a solid but unspectacular depth defenseman rather than an attempt at another career revival. I've seen this movie too many times before with the Canucks and it rarely works out. Oh well, he's a UFA in 5 months.

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01-13-2013, 02:47 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Buffalo Sabres scouts only watch tape to scout players and yet their results have been excellent. They also use (advanced) stats and other tools/information to help them make their decisions.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that some posters on these forums might actually be better talent evaluators than some scouts. I know there's certainly some guys on here that watch at least as much hockey as the scouts do.
Only tape? Link? I would find this very interesting. I know the new puck track system can tell you a lot, but I find it hard to believe they don't look at anyone in person ever.

But the point remains, they're professionals, we're not (to be clear, not defending Barker signing).

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01-13-2013, 02:49 PM
  #173
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Only tape? Link? I would find this very interesting. I know the new puck track system can tell you a lot, but I find it hard to believe they don't look at anyone in person ever.
Bear in mind - their scouting budget can't be that high given their financial situation (not now but in the past).

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01-13-2013, 02:51 PM
  #174
Tiranis
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Only tape? Link? I would find this very interesting. I know the new puck track system can tell you a lot, but I find it hard to believe they don't look at anyone in person ever.

But the point remains, they're professionals, we're not (to be clear, not defending Barker signing).
They scouted the player two or three times in person if they think he's worthy of it, but in general they did most of their scouting on tape. After a quick search I found this article: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1234791 More money now so they can afford to do the same as all the other teams and scout more extensively.

I think you're underrating some of the posters here and overrating some of the professionals. I'm not in hockey, but even in my field there's plenty of professionals that are worse than hobbyists (and some of them hold quite high-up position). There's no reason to think hockey isn't the same.

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01-13-2013, 02:52 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
This is as an oddball of a signing as Marco Sturm was. Good thing he turned him and an injured Sammy into Booth, but Barker probably has negative value as of now.
So we'll turn Barker and Ballard into Brent Seabrook?

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