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Old
01-13-2013, 03:37 PM
  #101
Benedict Kovalchuk
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I am gonna call it now. After yet another season of mediocrity Snow will finally be let go. He was a good drafter but failed to ice a competitive team. With Burke available I say the Isles jump on the opportunity before someone else does.
You know what, I think you might be on to something. With this Visnovsky fiasco, and the arena deal now completed, things might be changing for the Islanders. With the prospect pool as great as is now for the Islanders, a GM like Burke may be exactly what they need.

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01-13-2013, 03:38 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Exactly.

Plus, every GM wins trades. Scott Howson has won trades. He won the trades with Ottawa when he was able to get Vermette and dump Pascal Leclaire. He won the trade where he got Umberger. He dumped an AHL guy like Kris Russell and got a productive Nikita Nikitn. He traded a KHL-bound Zherdev for Tyutin.

But no one in their right mind is going to call Scott Howson an elite GM. You can't judge a GM by one or two draft picks, or one or two trades in a vacuum. You have to judge the GM's work as a whole, and as a whole, Burke has hurt the Leafs in the present as their GM (not winning) and future more (tradingnpicks and making bad picks) than he helped it.

You can look at the Jackets roster and and prospects and at least say hey, long term, Johansen, Moore,
Then why does everyone keep judging based on the kessel trade? And it wasnt just one or two trades he won.... if anything, he lost one or two trades.

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01-13-2013, 03:38 PM
  #103
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lol I love Grabo as much as the next guy.. but Phil Kessel is pretty good at hockey.
Yeah, I worded that poorly. I meant I'd take Grabo over anyone on Columbus.

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01-13-2013, 03:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Top 10 in goals last year with no centers and just 2 solid wingers.
Get a grip, kid.

Yeah we have big holes to fill.
But we have 2 Centers that are at least equal to anyone left on your team.
First, let me make clear in no way am I arguing the Blue Jackets are any good.

That said, I do look forward to Ryan Murray, Ryan Johansen, Boone Jenner, Cam Atkinson, Tim Erixon, and John Moore, all highly touted prospects who have played like superstars at their junior levels.

I don't think any GM in the NHL would take Tyler Bozak or Joe Colbourne or Kadri over a guy Johansen. Hard to put Bozak or Connally or any leafs Center over Dubisnky or Anisimov either...but again, not going to argue the Jackets are anything other than terrible - just pointing out that you can be a GM who makes some bad moves, loses a lot of games, misses on some draft picks, and STILL manage to put good pieces and prospects in places for the future. Burke is awful.

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01-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
First, let me make clear in no way am I arguing the Blue Jackets are any good.

That said, I do look forward to Ryan Murray, Ryan Johansen, Boone Jenner, Cam Atkinson, Tim Erixon, and John Moore, all highly touted prospects who have played like superstars at their junior levels.

I don't think any GM in the NHL would take Tyler Bozak or Joe Colbourne or Kadri over a guy Johansen. Hard to put Bozak or Connally or any leafs Center over Dubisnky or Anisimov either...but again, not going to argue the Jackets are anything other than terrible - just pointing out that you can be a GM who makes some bad moves, loses a lot of games, misses on some draft picks, and STILL manage to put good pieces and prospects in places for the future. Burke is awful.
Okay no one let you guys in on the joke yet. Sorry to be the one to break this to you...

You guys got ****ing Sather'd hard in the Nash deal. They gave up nothing, No one wanted to tell you guys because we all felt kind of bad.

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01-13-2013, 03:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
Then why does everyone keep judging based on the kessel trade? And it wasnt just one or two trades he won.... if anything, he lost one or two trades.
Winning trades is great - Burke won a lot of the trades he made.

Look at the roster he's assembled. The majority of the guys are marginal players:

Steckel, MacAarthur, Maclement, Bozak, Lombardi, Connally, Frason.

Then, the "star players" he's aquired:

Lupul, Kessel, Phanuef

these guys are all a year or two from UFA, so they could be considered question marks as long as the future goes, and could all either leave for nothing or if they still will command a lot more money.

Basically, long-term, the team is committed to JvR and Grabo and then can be excited about Gardiner, Frattin, and Reily.

And of course, goaltending is still a huge question. If I were a Leafs fan, I would look to what the GM in Colorado has done, or to even what Garth Snow has done, and that's why I'd be even more annoyed with Burke's tenure/Ownership philosophy.

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01-13-2013, 03:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Okay no one let you guys in on the joke yet. Sorry to be the one to break this to you...

You guys got ****ing Sather'd hard in the Nash deal. They gave up nothing, No one wanted to tell you guys because we all felt kind of bad.
I never said they got a good return for Nash.

It's not "Getting Sathered" it's what happens when a star player demands a trade and has a no-trade clause, and can basically pick his spot. When that happens, the team trading the player has no leverage at all.

Trying to make fun of the Rick Nash trade just shows you realize what you said about the Leafs having better centers than the Jackets was terrible

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01-13-2013, 03:58 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Okay no one let you guys in on the joke yet. Sorry to be the one to break this to you...

You guys got ****ing Sather'd hard in the Nash deal. They gave up nothing, No one wanted to tell you guys because we all felt kind of bad.
I disagree. Dubinsky and Anismiov are both solid 2-way top-6 forwards and Erixon is a very good d-prospect. That's a fair haul for a guy with a $7.8 million cap hit.

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01-13-2013, 04:08 PM
  #109
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I disagree. Dubinsky and Anismiov are both solid 2-way top-6 forwards and Erixon is a very good d-prospect. That's a fair haul for a guy with a $7.8 million cap hit.
Dubinsky is very mah. Rag fans hyped the hell out of a very average player.
Even Rag fans were admitting this before the trade.

Erixon is the most interesting piece. I guess.?

Again like the Leafs the Rags really don't give a **** as long as there are ways to dump contracts or move salary.

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01-13-2013, 04:12 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I disagree. Dubinsky and Anismiov are both solid 2-way top-6 forwards and Erixon is a very good d-prospect. That's a fair haul for a guy with a $7.8 million cap hit.
Did you forget that Howson was reportedly asking for Couturier/Couture/Skinner-type players as part of the deal to acquire Rick Nash? He caved in and pretty much got decimated by the market.

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01-13-2013, 04:17 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Dubinsky is very mah. Rag fans hyped the hell out of a very average player.
Even Rag fans were admitting this before the trade.

Erixon is the most interesting piece. I guess.?

Again like the Leafs the Rags really don't give a **** as long as there are ways to dump contracts or move salary.
Dubinsky is a good 2nd line C IMO. He's averaged about 16 goals and 42 points since coming into the league, while always playing against the best competition, and always getting fewer than 50% offensive zone starts. He also kills penalties and is a very good faceoff man. I hope the Jackets can get him locked up, because he has the potential to be a good player there for a long time.

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01-13-2013, 04:19 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
Dubinsky is very mah. Rag fans hyped the hell out of a very average player.
Even Rag fans were admitting this before the trade.

Erixon is the most interesting piece. I guess.?

Again like the Leafs the Rags really don't give a **** as long as there are ways to dump contracts or move salary.
Getting back on point, the reason Burke is terrible...

Jackets and Leafs both had 4 season of being terrible, coaches being fired, and just being plain awful.

However, the Jackets roster NOW - after those four years or garbage is full of young NHL talent:

Jack Johnson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, John Moore, Cam Atkinson, Derick Brassard, Ryan Johanson, Tim Erixon, Nikita Nikitin, etc...plus they have the top D prospect in Ryan Murray and other good prospects like Jenner and Savard.

The Leafs roster, now, after four years of garbage should at least be full of solid, young, up and coming NHL talent. But it's not. It's mostly garbage, expendable players with a few bright spots, but not nearly enough.

That's extremely poor general managing.

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01-13-2013, 04:20 PM
  #113
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Did you forget that Howson was reportedly asking for Couturier/Couture/Skinner-type players as part of the deal to acquire Rick Nash? He caved in and pretty much got decimated by the market.
Well those players are obviously more valuable than Nash with the exception of maybe Couturier. He was never going to get a young, cheap, 30 goal scorer for his 28-year old $7.8 million 30-goal scorer.

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01-13-2013, 04:20 PM
  #114
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Did you forget that Howson was reportedly asking for Couturier/Couture/Skinner-type players as part of the deal to acquire Rick Nash? He caved in and pretty much got decimated by the market.
how dare he ask around the league and check with GMs and see if he could get good players! How dare he try to get the best possible deal and then settle for market value!

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01-13-2013, 04:22 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by iheartzherdev View Post
how dare he ask around the league and check with gms and see if he could get good players!
he was asking for malkin and settled for less, therefore bad trade

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01-13-2013, 04:27 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Getting back on point, the reason Burke is terrible...

Jackets and Leafs both had 4 season of being terrible, coaches being fired, and just being plain awful.

However, the Jackets roster NOW - after those four years or garbage is full of young NHL talent:

Jack Johnson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, John Moore, Cam Atkinson, Derick Brassard, Ryan Johanson, Tim Erixon, Nikita Nikitin, etc...plus they have the top D prospect in Ryan Murray and other good prospects like Jenner and Savard.

The Leafs roster, now, after four years of garbage should at least be full of solid, young, up and coming NHL talent. But it's not. It's mostly garbage, expendable players with a few bright spots, but not nearly enough.

That's extremely poor general managing.
The situation in Toronto is very odd. They're built to be ready to compete just as their best players are hitting UFA. That isn't typical of teams who finish bottom-10 for 4 years. The only young cheap NHL players are Gunnarsson, Gardiner, and maybe Reimer Kadri, and Frattin. The entire process was very unusual. More than one way to skin a cat I guess, but it will be interesting to watch them tackle this.

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01-13-2013, 04:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
he was asking for malkin and settled for less, therefore bad trade
hahaha. Asking other GMs about their players and finding out who is potentially available, what it would take to get so and so, etc, is just the daily job of an NHL GM.

If these guys would actually read my posts, I've never once said the CBJ are good or Scott Howson is great, I am just pointing out after 4-5 years of being terrible, a franchise should at least have a bunch of young talent on the roster. Which the Leafs do not. Which is why I find it hard to make the case for Brian Burke being a great GM.

Last year, the Blue Jackets traded Antoine Vermette for two 2nd round picks. The Leafs traded away their second round pick for a 32 year old defensmen.

If you're a GM and you've built a terrible team, the least you can do is trade away your older players for picks. You don't trade your picks for guys in their 30's.

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01-13-2013, 04:59 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
hahaha. Asking other GMs about their players and finding out who is potentially available, what it would take to get so and so, etc, is just the daily job of an NHL GM.

If these guys would actually read my posts, I've never once said the CBJ are good or Scott Howson is great, I am just pointing out after 4-5 years of being terrible, a franchise should at least have a bunch of young talent on the roster. Which the Leafs do not. Which is why I find it hard to make the case for Brian Burke being a great GM.

Last year, the Blue Jackets traded Antoine Vermette for two 2nd round picks. The Leafs traded away their second round pick for a 32 year old defensmen.

If you're a GM and you've built a terrible team, the least you can do is trade away your older players for picks. You don't trade your picks for guys in their 30's.
They traded Boston's second rounder. Not theirs.

It's not like Burke traded for vets a lot. He was always making the team younger. He got Liles for a cheap cost.

Columbus traded a bunch of youth for Jeff Carter in a terribly bothched deal. You left that out.

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01-13-2013, 05:02 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Getting back on point, the reason Burke is terrible...

Jackets and Leafs both had 4 season of being terrible, coaches being fired, and just being plain awful.

However, the Jackets roster NOW - after those four years or garbage is full of young NHL talent:

Jack Johnson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, John Moore, Cam Atkinson, Derick Brassard, Ryan Johanson, Tim Erixon, Nikita Nikitin, etc...plus they have the top D prospect in Ryan Murray and other good prospects like Jenner and Savard.

The Leafs roster, now, after four years of garbage should at least be full of solid, young, up and coming NHL talent. But it's not. It's mostly garbage, expendable players with a few bright spots, but not nearly enough.

That's extremely poor general managing.
This is a ridiculous comment. I'll take the Leafs team for young players anyday over the Jackets one.

The Jackets are terrible.

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01-13-2013, 05:03 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
He makes 3.8 million, is average at best, and is 33 years old. It's not like he's some cornenstone piece for the future. He's an older 2nd pairing defensmen. Leafs should've kept the 2nd rounder. It was a move to boost short term wins and help the playoffs, which it didn't, and again, hurt the future (losing a 2nd rounder)
Boston's late second rounder for Liles was a great deal for the Leafs.

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01-13-2013, 05:04 PM
  #121
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Obviously Vancouver will hire him so he can pawn off Luongo

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01-13-2013, 05:08 PM
  #122
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Bolded are fantastic. The rest are mediocre at best though (at least until JVR breaks out). I've never really considered the Phaneuf trade a great one though. Not bad, but IMO there are many teams out there who wouldn't be interested at a $6.5 million cap hit.
Burke shipped out more salary in that trade than he took back.

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01-13-2013, 05:15 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
They traded Boston's second rounder. Not theirs.

It's not like Burke traded for vets a lot. He was always making the team younger. He got Liles for a cheap cost.

Columbus traded a bunch of youth for Jeff Carter in a terribly bothched deal. You left that out.
The Carter deal is a great example of what I'm talking about. Howson made a win now trade prior to last season, it didn't work out at all.

He then traded Carter for a 1st and Jack Johnson. Now, would you trade a 1st (in the top 10) and Voracek for Johnson and 1st (in the 20s)? Ideally, no you would not. But it was a pretty good band aid for a bad trade.

Again, I am not working for the premise the Jackets are a good team or Howson is a great GM. I'm just using them as an example that even if you are a bad team that has made some bad moves over the course of a 4-5 year period you should still find yourself with a roster with a lot of young talent on it. Not the disaster the Leafs are in


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01-13-2013, 05:18 PM
  #124
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This is a ridiculous comment. I'll take the Leafs team for young players anyday over the Jackets one.

The Jackets are terrible.
Oh please, the Leafs are just as bad. The Leafs young players are just older than the Jackets. Once all the Leafs are in their UFA years and the Jackets prospects are up you won't be signing the same tune I imagine.

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01-13-2013, 05:19 PM
  #125
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This is a ridiculous comment. I'll take the Leafs team for young players anyday over the Jackets one.

The Jackets are terrible.
The Jackets are terrible. Again, if you read my posts I am not arguing otherwise.

The Leafs however, are right there with them, as hard as the might be for you admit. And, due to Brian Burke, and his mouth, they are in a worse situation going forward because of the moves he made.

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