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RNH for Benn

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:27 PM
  #51
Xav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj33habs View Post
Benn=Iginla
RNH=Ribeiro

Iginla>>Ribeiro
This is the stupidest thing I've seen on these boards.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:27 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Jamie Benn at 22 had a ppg of .89

Ryan Nugent Hopkins at 18 had a ppg of 0.84

How do you not realize that Hopkins being 4 years younger and producing at pretty much the same rate makes him far more valuable? Not only was the production very similar Hopkins also happens to be arguably the best PP player in the world as a ****ing teenager. Sorry to break it to you Nuge>>Benn.
Just watch Benn this season and next and you'll actually see what I'm talking about.

I know stats are just about all you Edmonton fans have to go on to justify considering the big 4 as some of the best players in the league (which they're far from), but stats don't really do Benn justice at this point in his career.

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01-13-2013, 03:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Just watch Benn this season and next and you'll actually see what I'm talking about.

I know stats are just about all you Edmonton fans have to go on to justify considering the big 4 as some of the best players in the league (which they're far from), but stats don't really do Benn justice at this point in his career.
Dude, let the idiocy continue. As one sane Oilers fan pointed out- the proposal comes from an Oilers fan and somehow, there happens to ensue a string of mindless arguments against no one in particular.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
This thread was started by an Oiler fan and not many DAL fans have defended Benn. Stop bashing Benn. He is a damn good player.
He is a damn good player but it's safe to say that Nuge has more potential.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Jamie Benn at 22 had a ppg of .89

Ryan Nugent Hopkins at 18 had a ppg of 0.84

How do you not realize that Hopkins being 4 years younger and producing at pretty much the same rate makes him far more valuable? Not only was the production very similar Hopkins also happens to be arguably the best PP player in the world as a ****ing teenager. Sorry to break it to you Nuge>>Benn.
Yeah I remember when Gagner was a world beater after his rookie year and Horcoff's qualsi made him better than the Sedins.

Benn is better right now and ultimately the gap won't be that big. If both pan out completely, one is a 100 point C and one is a 80 point C with better physical and defensive game. Though lemme guess, you think RNH is gonna be a perennial 120 point player.

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01-13-2013, 03:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
He is a damn good player but it's safe to say that Nuge has more potential.
Benn looks like he'll turn into a PPG (possibly more) center with great defense and amazing physicality. He's had multiple plays/shifts where he just takes over the game offensively and does whatever he pleases.

RNH has PPG+ potential as well IMO, and while he does have good defense, I'd give that to Benn just slightly though (close enough to not make a difference). It's the size and physicality that give Benn an advantage.

Factoring in age, I can see why you would take RNH. Starting a franchise, I'd seriously consider that as well. But to say RNH is in another league than Benn is just out of your mind, totally absurd. That's putting him in the group with Giroux, Tavares, etc., which he most certainly doesn't belong in.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah I remember when Gagner was a world beater after his rookie year and Horcoff's qualsi made him better than the Sedins.

Benn is better right now and ultimately the gap won't be that big. If both pan out completely, one is a 100 point C and one is a 80 point C with better physical and defensive game. Though lemme guess, you think RNH is gonna be a perennial 120 point player.
I don't think you (or Edmonton fans) understand how incredibly rare a consistent 100 point scorer is. It's very, very doubtful that RNH will become an elite player like that, and there's no indication that he will.

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01-13-2013, 03:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Just watch Benn this season and next and you'll actually see what I'm talking about.

I know stats are just about all you Edmonton fans have to go on to justify considering the big 4 as some of the best players in the league (which they're far from), but stats don't really do Benn justice at this point in his career.
What a ridiculous argument, here let me try it:

Just watch hopkins and you'll see what i'm talking about.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I don't think you (or Edmonton fans) understand how incredibly rare a consistent 100 point scorer is. It's very, very doubtful that RNH will become an elite player like that, and there's no indication that he will.
***pan out completely***

RNH as perennial 80-85 with a couple 90 seasons and Benn as perennial 65-70 with some 80 seasons is more likely.

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01-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Benn looks like he'll turn into a PPG (possibly more) center with great defense and amazing physicality. He's had multiple plays/shifts where he just takes over the game offensively and does whatever he pleases.

RNH has PPG+ potential as well IMO, and while he does have good defense, I'd give that to Benn just slightly though (close enough to not make a difference). It's the size and physicality that give Benn an advantage.

Factoring in age, I can see why you would take RNH. Starting a franchise, I'd seriously consider that as well. But to say RNH is in another league than Benn is just out of your mind, totally absurd. That's putting him in the group with Giroux, Tavares, etc., which he most certainly doesn't belong in.
It's just that RNH is so good already and that was an 18 year old player with a physique of a 15 year old. IF he pans out, i could see him in that tier right behind Crosby and Malkin and in that Giroux, Tavares level. I see a lot of Datsyuk in his game. Most of the best players in the game historically haven't been big, physical beasts so i'm not sure that it gives him an advantage over RNH, they just dominate the game in different ways.
Benn is awfully good and he brings a lot of diverse skills to the table but i just don't see his potential being on that top level. I don't know if his offense will ever be good enough to consider him an Iginla level player that some mentioned early in the thread. Helluva player though, no doubt about that.

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01-13-2013, 03:51 PM
  #61
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That's the thing - his offense is just about there already, the points simply aren't.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:54 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Yeah I remember when Gagner was a world beater after his rookie year and Horcoff's qualsi made him better than the Sedins.

Benn is better right now and ultimately the gap won't be that big. If both pan out completely, one is a 100 point C and one is a 80 point C with better physical and defensive game. Though lemme guess, you think RNH is gonna be a perennial 120 point player.
Yeah keep beating that straw man...

Perhaps if you're going to rebutt me you could you know make reference to the things i say? I've bolded the straw men.

By this logic a Tavares, Stamkos, Giroux for Benn isn't an unreasonable offer. Let's face it the Nuge did something special last year and more than any player in the league he may have an untapped potential to make everybody around him better to a degree we usually only see once or twice a generation. That's the thing with Nuge. Let's not try and pretend he's not considered a rare and exceptional talent, Benn is considered very good but not rare.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:54 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
***pan out completely***

RNH as perennial 80-85 with a couple 90 seasons and Benn as perennial 65-70 with some 80 seasons is more likely.
I could see Nuge hitting 100 in his career. The kid's vision and composure is unbelievable.

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Old
01-13-2013, 03:56 PM
  #64
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I'm a pretty big fan of both teams and I would take RNH every time. Benn is a first line centre though, no question.

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01-13-2013, 03:58 PM
  #65
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I think Benn is actually better than RNH currently is. He plays tougher minutes, more minutes, is more physically mature and can impact a game in more ways than one. So can RNH, but no so much using his body and physical stature like Benn, more in takeaways, positioning and backchecking. He's the smartest player on the ice whenever he's on the ice aside from a handful of players in the league, all at the tender age of 19.

Right now Benn > RNH. But in 2 years or so I think RNH could/should surpass him.

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01-13-2013, 04:02 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Benn looks like he'll turn into a PPG (possibly more) center with great defense and amazing physicality. He's had multiple plays/shifts where he just takes over the game offensively and does whatever he pleases.

RNH has PPG+ potential as well IMO, and while he does have good defense, I'd give that to Benn just slightly though (close enough to not make a difference). It's the size and physicality that give Benn an advantage.

Factoring in age, I can see why you would take RNH. Starting a franchise, I'd seriously consider that as well. But to say RNH is in another league than Benn is just out of your mind, totally absurd. That's putting him in the group with Giroux, Tavares, etc., which he most certainly doesn't belong in.
Oh really? I doubt you could find many that have watched Hopkins play that would say Tavares or Giroux are in another class from him. Lets hear your compelling argument...

Benn is an excellent player, and while he is better than Hopkins now, Hopkins is clearly superior in terms of potential. Youre welcome to make a poll about it if you want, but I suspect you'll be disappointed.

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Yeah keep beating that straw man...

Perhaps if you're going to rebutt me you could you know make reference to the things i say? I've bolded the straw men.

By this logic a Tavares, Stamkos, Giroux for Benn isn't an unreasonable offer. Let's face it the Nuge did something special last year and more than any player in the league he may have an untapped potential to make everybody around him better to a degree we usually only see once or twice a generation. That's the thing with Nuge. Let's not try and pretend he's not considered a rare and exceptional talent, Benn is considered very good but not rare.
So you don't have a problem with a 100 point/80 point with better defensive and much better physical game assessment? How is an 80 point excellent defensively and physically center not rare. Are Toews and Kopitar not rare?

A year from now Benn for Giroux may not be considered all that unreasonable. He's ahead of where Giroux was when they were the same age. It's just that Giroux put up a 95 point season on a team where Max Talbot scored 20 goals and the towel boy could probably get 10 and everyone's lost their minds over him.

I'm just saying a bit less homerific perspective may be in order before unloading all over the place over RNH's rookie season playing sheltered minutes with Hall and Eberle.

Tavares, Stamkos and Giroux have proven a good deal more than RNH. For starters, they've had seasons superior to any of Benn's, even when factoring in linemates and all around play.


Last edited by Halpysback: 01-13-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
01-13-2013, 04:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Neatman View Post
Oh really? I doubt you could find many that have watched Hopkins play that would say Tavares or Giroux are in another class from him. Lets hear your compelling argument...

Benn is an excellent player, and while he is better than Hopkins now, Hopkins is clearly superior in terms of potential. Youre welcome to make a poll about it if you want, but I suspect you'll be disappointed.
This post is a joke, right? RNH is nowhere near Tavares and Giroux right now. Absolutely nowhere near. Anyone but a huge Edmonton homer could tell you that.

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
I could see Nuge hitting 100 in his career. The kid's vision and composure is unbelievable.
He's also playing with Hall and Eberle.

Benn has Eriksson and may get another good linemate but RNH will always be in a superior position to get points, both because of linemates and because Benn will probably play a Toews/Kopitar style semi shutdown role.

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:18 PM
  #70
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Here's my view, as a Stars fan:

Benn is the better player now, simply because he's more mature as a player. There have been times already that he's carried the Stars on his back. He plays a great physical all round game, plays the toughest situations and has PPG potential. Maybe he'll hit 90 once or twice in his career. Maybe.

Nuge had a great debut season, no-one can deny that. His offensive instincts are better than Benn's and he'll get better and better as he matures. No doubt he'll score buckets of points as well with that Edmonton top 6. He should, if he reaches his potential, be a regular 90-120 point guy. Maybe he hits Giroux/Stamkos level but it's way too early to tell.

Summary, Nuge has a higher ceiling but is less physically mature. Benn is the better player now (not by much at all though) and in 2 years time there's a 99% chance that Nuge has surpassed Benn (though not in the pugilistic fashion)

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:24 PM
  #71
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i don't see how Gretzky pertains to this discussion.
The previous poster argued that Benn was better than RNH because Benn is a "complete package".

Players that aren't "complete packages" are often excellent players. The GOAT wasn't a "complete package".

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01-13-2013, 04:31 PM
  #72
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I really hope RNH wasn't just compared to Gretzky in anything more than style...

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01-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Philly85 View Post
I think Benn is actually better than RNH currently is. He plays tougher minutes, more minutes, is more physically mature and can impact a game in more ways than one. So can RNH, but no so much using his body and physical stature like Benn, more in takeaways, positioning and backchecking. He's the smartest player on the ice whenever he's on the ice aside from a handful of players in the league, all at the tender age of 19.

Right now Benn > RNH. But in 2 years or so I think RNH could/should surpass him.
Actually Hopkins faced tougher competition by a little last season according to the player usage charts. Benn did have a tougher ZS by a fair bit though. So yeah he did play tougher minutes but not in terms of competition and it wasn't by a huge margin.

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01-13-2013, 04:39 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
This post is a joke, right? RNH is nowhere near Tavares and Giroux right now. Absolutely nowhere near. Anyone but a huge Edmonton homer could tell you that.
Who said right now? We're comparing a player with one season as an 18 year old rookie to players with multiple NHL season, I assumed you would compare them at the same place in their careers. Seems rather obvious...

And in terms of where they all were at 18, RNH is ahead of them all. That would be why Tavares and Giroux are not unquestionably at another level from Hopkins.

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Old
01-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #75
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What is OP thinking? Benn is good but not what OP is making him out to be...

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