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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Some middle level NHLers are not good enough for KHL

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Old
12-25-2012, 03:34 AM
  #51
Hammer Time
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I don't think a 9 or 12 game period is enough to conclusively say Kane or Lupul can't cut it in the KHL. Look at Pavelski:
first 8 games: 0 G, 1 A, 1 P (0.13 P/G)
last 9 games: 7 G, 6 A, 13 P (1.44 P/G)

In the past, some great Europeans have also taken time to get going when moving to the NHL:

Pavel Bure
first 13 games: 4 G, 1 A, 5 P (0.38 P/G)
last 52 games: 30 G, 25 A, 55 P (1.06 P/G)

Jaromir Jagr
first 34 games: 7 G, 5 A, 12 P (0.35 P/G)
last 46 games: 20 G, 25 A, 45 P (0.98 P/G)

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Old
12-25-2012, 08:13 AM
  #52
Acallabeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
I don't think a 9 or 12 game period is enough to conclusively say Kane or Lupul can't cut it in the KHL. Look at Pavelski
Sample size may be small, but from what I've seen, Pavelski played very solid hockey of a skilled veteran and could be characterized as "snakebit".
Haven't seen enough of Lupul, but EKane looked like garbage. Can't imagine them suddenly reversing the situation.

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Old
12-25-2012, 09:12 AM
  #53
Siberian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
I don't think a 9 or 12 game period is enough to conclusively say Kane or Lupul can't cut it in the KHL. Look at Pavelski:
first 8 games: 0 G, 1 A, 1 P (0.13 P/G)
last 9 games: 7 G, 6 A, 13 P (1.44 P/G)

In the past, some great Europeans have also taken time to get going when moving to the NHL:

Pavel Bure
first 13 games: 4 G, 1 A, 5 P (0.38 P/G)
last 52 games: 30 G, 25 A, 55 P (1.06 P/G)

Jaromir Jagr
first 34 games: 7 G, 5 A, 12 P (0.35 P/G)
last 46 games: 20 G, 25 A, 45 P (0.98 P/G)
Actually very good observations and could be valid. However, Pavelski was playing very solid hockey right from the game 1. It's not just about the stats, it is what you show on the ice. He impressed a lot of people in Minsk and in Russia by his skills and work output. The guy is the big time player. When he leaves KHL there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans. I haven't seen a lot of him in the NHL but I will surely want to follow him much more now when the NHL returns.

As far as Jagr and Bure it is hard to say if they were just as mediocre in their first NHL games as Kane and Lupul were in the first KHL games. I seriously doubt that since they are some of the most electrifying players in the history of the sport.

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Old
12-25-2012, 11:36 AM
  #54
Acallabeth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
As far as Jagr and Bure it is hard to say if they were just as mediocre in their first NHL games as Kane and Lupul were in the first KHL games. I seriously doubt that since they are some of the most electrifying players in the history of the sport.
Can't say anything about Jagr's 1st game, but Bure's surely made memories about it...


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Old
12-25-2012, 01:04 PM
  #55
cska78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
I don't think a 9 or 12 game period is enough to conclusively say Kane or Lupul can't cut it in the KHL. Look at Pavelski:
first 8 games: 0 G, 1 A, 1 P (0.13 P/G)
last 9 games: 7 G, 6 A, 13 P (1.44 P/G)

In the past, some great Europeans have also taken time to get going when moving to the NHL:

Pavel Bure
first 13 games: 4 G, 1 A, 5 P (0.38 P/G)
last 52 games: 30 G, 25 A, 55 P (1.06 P/G)

Jaromir Jagr
first 34 games: 7 G, 5 A, 12 P (0.35 P/G)
last 46 games: 20 G, 25 A, 45 P (0.98 P/G)
Bure was 19 and Jagr was like 17? Kane is not much older either though

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Old
12-26-2012, 01:13 AM
  #56
Le Chacal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Actually very good observations and could be valid. However, Pavelski was playing very solid hockey right from the game 1. It's not just about the stats, it is what you show on the ice. He impressed a lot of people in Minsk and in Russia by his skills and work output. The guy is the big time player. When he leaves KHL there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans. I haven't seen a lot of him in the NHL but I will surely want to follow him much more now when the NHL returns.

As far as Jagr and Bure it is hard to say if they were just as mediocre in their first NHL games as Kane and Lupul were in the first KHL games. I seriously doubt that since they are some of the most electrifying players in the history of the sport.
I watch Pavelski almost every game in San Jose, and he is a blue-collar hockey player who does all the little things that coaches want (winning face-offs, back-checking, blocking shots, dirty work in front of the net, etc). He's not a great skater by any means or a natural offensive talent like E Kane, but Pavelski is a much smarter hockey player who has a better attitude and is willing to do whatever the coaches want. So I think Pavelski has succeeded in Russia because he's a determined, team-oriented player, whereas Kane is not.

As for Lupul, he's obviously a very productive offensive player when surrounded by good line mates, but is not a star by any means. So I think the fact that he was playing for the worst team in the KHL means that he probably had poor talent around him. But if he was on Dynamo Moscow or CSKA or SKA, I'm sure he'd put up close to a PPG average. Just my opinion.

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Old
01-12-2013, 07:56 PM
  #57
The Chiddler
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Nikolai Kulemin

5 points in his first 11 games

33 points in his last 25 games

Would you have written him off too? It takes time to adjust to a very different game. You're being ridiculous.

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Old
01-13-2013, 06:55 PM
  #58
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I'm sorry but Kane and Lupel are the exceptions not the rule. Most NHL players who went to the KHL dominated. Heck, mid-level NHL players like Kulemin, Voranick, Anismov & Kostitsyn S. practically became superstars over there. And most of the actual superstars like Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom & Datsyuk all upped their ppg rates significantly.

Here's a list of how NHL players(from last season only) fared in the KHL this past season(in points per game);

ranked from highest ppg
KHL ppg vs NHL ppg & difference
1.76 vs 1.45 +0.31 +21% Malkin
1.32 vs 1.05 +0.27 +26% Backstrom
1.32 vs 0.78 +0.54 +69% Radulov
1.29 vs 0.83 +0.46 +55% Ovechkin
1.17 vs 1.08 +0.09 +8% Kovalchuk
1.16 vs 0.96 +0.20 +21% Datsyuk
1.07 vs 0.57 +0.50 +88% Kostitsyn S
1.06 vs 0.40 +0.66 +165% Kulemin
0.87 vs 0.63 +0.24 +38% Voracek
0.83 vs 0.46 +0.37 +80% Anismov
0.83 vs 0.69 +0.14 +20% Garboski
0.82 vs 0.74 +0.08 +11% Pavelski
0.80 vs 0.70 +0.10 +14% Semin
0.78 vs 0.50 +0.28 +56% Gonchar
0.77 vs 0.38 +0.39 +103% Hedman
0.76 vs 0.43 +0.42 +79% Stapleton
0.69 vs 0.69 no change Visnovsky
0.56 vs 0.40 +0.16 +40% Ponikarovsky
0.55 vs 0.27 +0.28 +104% Fedotenko
0.53 vs 0.63 -0.10 -19% Kostitsyn A
0.49 vs 0.24 +0.25 +104% Christensen
0.48 vs 0.19 +0.29 +153% Sekera
0.44 vs 1.02 -0.58 -57% Lupul
0.40 vs 0.66 -0.26 -39% Chara
0.08 vs 0.77 -0.69 -90% Kane


Last edited by EM71: 01-14-2013 at 06:23 PM. Reason: fixed, thanks for the info
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Old
01-13-2013, 09:38 PM
  #59
Ryker
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Who's this Voranick you speak of? And you should correct those -132% and -963%. Anyways, I agree with your argument in general.

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Old
01-13-2013, 10:45 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM71 View Post
Here's a list of how NHL players(from last season only) fared in the KHL this past season(in points per game)
Your list is missing quite a few players, such as Chára, Sekera and the by-now notorious Višňovský. Višňovský is at 0.50 ppg exactly after 32 games, while Sekera and Chára are slightly below that (12 and 10 points in 25 games played).

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Old
01-17-2013, 07:08 PM
  #61
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Using Evander Kane as your benchmark for anything is just a poor idea, everyone knows he has an attitude problem, maybe he'll figure it out, maybe he'll be serious but he was never going to take playing in the
KHL seriously this year.

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